Kamen Rider the Next released

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Re: Kamen Rider the Next released

Post by flame13th » Mon May 19, 2008 10:24 am

He will return later on.

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Re: Kamen Rider the Next released

Post by Ghost23 » Wed May 28, 2008 8:42 pm

Well I watched this movie 6 or seven times, yeah you can say I liked it. But there are a few things that bothered me, I didn't like how that minor subplot with Chiharu played out. It was almost like a horror movie then a KR movie and the other thing was the the main story line and how V3 comes about, it was still too similar to the plot of the first movie. But these where minor and didn't hurt the movie too much. I like seeing 'mochi' girl again been a long time since KR Hibiki. I think there would have been more to the story if they added another subplot like trying to find a way to help V2.

On another note anyone know what was that ending was about?

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Re: Kamen Rider the Next released

Post by takenoko » Wed May 28, 2008 9:01 pm

I don't even regard the thing after the credits as being part of the movie. It just seems like something to leave the movie on a shocking note

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Post by DaikaijuSokogeki! » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:26 pm

WARNING: SPOILERS/ANGRY RANT AHEAD.

I feel like I should write two reviews. One for the J-horror movie, one for the Kamen Rider movie. Yep, those are my thoughts in a nutshell. I felt like I was watching TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MOVIES. To those who say the horror plot isn't the main focus: bullcrap. When I started watching the movie, I thought I had started up another movie entirely. Five minutes in, when the logo for the movie showed up, well, you can just imagine my confusion. This movie was so intent on being a J-horror that Kamen Rider 1 (not Hongo, but the Rider itself) doesn't show up until 28 minutes in and Kazami isn't even mentioned until 38 minutes in. When he is mentioned, it's so abrupt that I felt that the writers were just pulling the character out of their asses.

Not only did this movie feel like a J-horror, it felt like a BAD J-horror movie.

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The plot never scared me and it even pulls a cheap-ass ending like One Missed Call for instance. The entire pachinko scene after the credits was completely unnecessary. I thought for an nth of a second it may have been a setup for Riderman, nope, this movie just wanted to be a Ju-on ripoff all along.


Now, to the Kamen Rider portion of the movie. That part blew the Kamen Rider plot in Kamen Rider The First completely out of the water. The fights were better choreographed, the climax wasn't a 5-minute ADD fest and once I got used to Shiro Kazami, I liked him. The relationship between Hongo and Ichimonji wasn't as slapped together and was certainly better written. Now, if only this movie were actually a Kamen Rider movie.

If there is going to be a third movie, there's no way I'll check it out. The First sucked, The Next sucked, The Third or The Last or whatever it'll be called logically will not be any better. What would Ishinomori think of these movies? The First was an overly melodramatic soap opera that skimped out on action sequences and The Next had a severe identity crisis. I can't even call this a Kamen Rider movie. How about Death Idol or Platinum Smile or some title that belongs to a J-horror?

What a crappy movies.

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Re:

Post by Saejima Kouga » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:33 pm

DaikaijuSokogeki! wrote:When I started watching the movie, I thought I had started up another movie entirely. Five minutes in, when the logo for the movie showed up, well, you can just imagine my confusion.
I had that exact same situation. Then I saw the logo and was like "oh, so shocker's got a way to slip in unnoticed? And then I was disappointed that the Chiharu thing was mostly (not entirely) unrelated.

Though I disagree with you about The First. The movie was great, The Next wasn't too bad, and The Future (Za Last?) movie still has potential to go to a good place. We'll just have to see here in a couple years.
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Re: Kamen Rider the Next released

Post by takenoko » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:49 pm

I think it's perfectly legitimate for people to say they don't like The First or The Next, it's not exactly going to appeal to everyone.

Personally I like The First and The Next for not being just mindless action fests. Complain about it if you want, but an action movie isn't very good if the characters and story are lacking.

Considering the wacky stuff Ishinomori came up with, I really can't see him disapproving of the modernization of the Kamen Rider shows.

Maybe these movies just aren't your thing

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Post by DaikaijuSokogeki! » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:02 pm

takenoko wrote:I think it's perfectly legitimate for people to say they don't like The First or The Next, it's not exactly going to appeal to everyone.

Personally I like The First and The Next for not being just mindless action fests. Complain about it if you want, but an action movie isn't very good if the characters and story are lacking.

Considering the wacky stuff Ishinomori came up with, I really can't see him disapproving of the modernization of the Kamen Rider shows.

Maybe these movies just aren't your thing
Y'see, I don't like mindless action movies either. But if it's going to not just be an action movie, then shouldn't I at least care about the characters or story? In The First, I personally never cared about the story. It was too overdramatic and the entire Ichimonji plot just felt convoluted. In The Next...come on. It is a J-horror rip-off to the core.

And I do like drama in my action. My favorite KR show is Kamen Rider 555 for crying out loud. I just don't care for the story these movies set up. And if you're not gonna have a good story, then at least give me some good action. In The Next, the Chiharu story sucked, but I loved the action scenes, which is more than what I could say about The First. However, The Next was so damned intent on being a J-horror that the awesome climax is completely halted every 3 minutes with a scene of Chiharu sneaking up on Kimaku.

I guess I'm guilty as charged for wanting to watch Kamen Rider action in a movie called Kamen Rider The Next. Oh, and I notice that the action was all that was advertised for this movie. I can just imagine the confusion the audience felt when the movie started. Probably the same confusion I felt.

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Post by takenoko » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:22 pm

>But if it's going to not just be an action movie, then shouldn't I at least care about the characters or story? In The First, I personally never cared about the story.

Well, not everyone is going to like the same characters/story line. I really like the innocent, naive Hongo character. Ichimonji is kind of a shallow, action hero type, but that's fine too. I guess the big Rider character in this movie was V3, how he was created and how he changed to the good guy side. Since this is deeply connected to the Chiharu plot, I guess this part had to go hand-in-hand

>It was too overdramatic and the entire Ichimonji plot just felt convoluted.

I don't think it was that confusing. They wear masks and they look pretty similar. The miscommunication and misunderstandings between masked characters wasn't too different from some of the plots in Faiz

>In The Next...come on. It is a J-horror rip-off to the core.

Yes, but there's other stuff going on. Picking the two or three scenes you least like about the movie and judging the whole movie by it doesn't seem to make sense

>And if you're not gonna have a good story, then at least give me some good action.

That's the weird thing, I thought The First had an excellent story. Maybe it's like me and Faiz. If you don't like the characters, you're not going to care for the story?

>In The Next, the Chiharu story sucked, but I loved the action scenes

Again, Chiharu isn't the only character in the movie. And I liked Kikuma's character

>was so damned intent on being a J-horror that the awesome climax is completely halted every 3 minutes with a scene of Chiharu sneaking up on Kimaku.

Actually if you look at the scenes, this part doesn't really interrupt the action scenes as much as you say. They only revisit Kikuma once or twice before The First and Second finish off their battles. And then the rest of it is between V3 and his sister and Kikuma, as it should be

>I guess I'm guilty as charged for wanting to watch Kamen Rider action in a movie called Kamen Rider The Next.

Yes, but you loved the action sequences, so this isn't really your main complaint?

>I can just imagine the confusion the audience felt when the movie started. Probably the same confusion I felt.

Assuming they saw The First, I don't really see why they would be surprised that the story might be slow or whatnot. I think most people thought the action sequences in The Next were pretty exemplary, so you had to watch a B movie to get to the good stuff, that's kind of an okay tradeoff to me.

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Post by DaikaijuSokogeki! » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:15 am

>Well, not everyone is going to like the same characters/story line. I really like the innocent, naive Hongo character. Ichimonji is kind of a shallow, action hero type, but that's fine too. I guess the big Rider character in this movie was V3, how he was created and how he changed to the good guy side. Since this is deeply connected to the Chiharu plot, I guess this part had to go hand-in-hand

Actually, I did find the parts with the three Riders to be the best part of the movie. The problem I have with these characters is that they are nothing like their original counterparts in the TV series. In these movies, they're just pretty boys (I especially got that feeling when Kazami is introduced. "Ooh, look at me decant this wine. I'm so rich and pretty. Oooh"). However, those characters did grow on me in The Next.

>I don't think it was that confusing. They wear masks and they look pretty similar. The miscommunication and misunderstandings between masked characters wasn't too different from some of the plots in Faiz

Okay, here's Ichimonji's origin in Kamen Rider The First. Originally, he was the fianceé of the romantic female lead. However, he died. Shocker decided to clone him for no apparent reason to become one of their remodeled humans. Somehow, he still had the memories of the guy who died. It doesn't sound too confusing, but I felt that the way it was handled had me scratching my head.

>Yes, but there's other stuff going on. Picking the two or three scenes you least like about the movie and judging the whole movie by it doesn't seem to make sense

Seven. There are seven scenes of J-horror sequences.

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-The introduction of the film when she kills the super nerd
-The death of the fan club president
-The pursuit of the second Chiharu
-The entire Chiharu flashback sequence felt ripped out of Ringu, grainy film and all
-The deaths of the third Chiharu, the assistant and manager
-I'll just count all of the shots of Chiharu sneaking up on Kimaku as one for convenience's sake
-The scene after the credits


Also, most of these scenes go on for about 5-8 minutes. I can safely judge a movie on a plot that prominent throughout the movie.

>That's the weird thing, I thought The First had an excellent story. Maybe it's like me and Faiz. If you don't like the characters, you're not going to care for the story?

Hey, it's just my personal opinion. If the characters suck, then having a story involving the characters facing danger leaves me...uninvolved or uncaring.

>Again, Chiharu isn't the only character in the movie. And I liked Kikuma's character

I'll admit, Kikuma was okay. But the movie focuses so much time on Chiharu. Again, Shiro Kazami, the main drawing point of the movie, isn't even mentioned until nearly 40 minutes in.

>Actually if you look at the scenes, this part doesn't really interrupt the action scenes as much as you say. They only revisit Kikuma once or twice before The First and Second finish off their battles. And then the rest of it is between V3 and his sister and Kikuma, as it should be

I'll get back to you on that. I'll rewatch the climax later and let you know how many times the climax is broken up by those pointless scenes involving Chiharu and Kimaku. Heck, Chiharu wasn't even needed there because she was facing V3 AT THE SAME TIME. How was she at two places at once? It would've made more sense for her not to be there at all. Instead, the film should've stuck with the climax.

>Yes, but you loved the action sequences, so this isn't really your main complaint?

Oh yeah, I loved those sequences. Shame that the movie wanted to be a J-horror film instead.

>Assuming they saw The First, I don't really see why they would be surprised that the story might be slow or whatnot. I think most people thought the action sequences in The Next were pretty exemplary, so you had to watch a B movie to get to the good stuff, that's kind of an okay tradeoff to me.

I'm not talking about the story being slow, I'm talking about it being a completely different story entirely. The horror "sub"-plot was not advertised AT ALL. The movie begins exactly like a J-horror movie and sticks to that. It isn't obviously a Kamen Rider movie until Hongo shows up, which is about 7-10 minutes in.

Here's a true story. It's the climax of the movie. I'm watching another scene between Chiharu and Kimaku. My sister walks by the computer, she has not watched any of the movie at all. Wanna know what she says? "Looks a like a J-horror movie." I say, "No, but you're damned close." She guesses again: J-comedy. Nope. Finally, we go back to Kamen Rider 1 fighting Scissors Jaguar. She says: "Oooh, okay" and walks off. If someone were to walk into this movie without knowing what the movie is, they wouldn't know it was a KR movie at all if it wasn't during an action sequence.

Look at the grim color filters. It's even shot like a J-horror movie to boot. Thing is, Kamen Rider The First left me feeling dissapointed but at least it felt a little like a tribute to Kamen Rider. This movie left me pissed, namely because it didn't WANT to be a KR movie about a famous Rider like V3.

Yes, the KR sequences rocked. I truly geeked out when all 3 Riders did their poses. Then, we go right back to Chiharu and the movie turns back to J-horror wannabe crap.

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Post by takenoko » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:59 am

>Actually, I did find the parts with the three Riders to be the best part of the movie. The problem I have with these characters is that they are nothing like their original counterparts in the TV series.

Wasn't it intentionally supposed to be different? Like more based on the manga? Given that a movie doesn't have the same time span to develop characters in the same way TV series do, I think they did a pretty good job with the riders. Hongo gets most of the development in both movies, but hey, main character.

>Okay, here's Ichimonji's origin in Kamen Rider The First. Originally, he was the fianceé of the romantic female lead. However, he died. Shocker decided to clone him for no apparent reason to become one of their remodeled humans.

Ah, that's your confusion. No, he's just a totally random guy who was sent to kill Hongo. He just happens to look like Asuka's fiance.

>Somehow, he still had the memories of the guy who died.

I don't think that's there at all

-The introduction of the film when she kills the super nerd

Maybe he had a really good day job helping people out as a rescue worker

-The death of the fan club president

Obviously a pedophile

-The pursuit of the second Chiharu

Yeah, but I liked this part since we find out later these girls kind of screwed Chiharu over

-The entire Chiharu flashback sequence felt ripped out of Ringu, grainy film and all

Had to explain it somehow.

-The deaths of the third Chiharu, the assistant and manager

Same reason for the above

-The scene after the credits

I don't really acknowledge that scene as being part of the movie

>Also, most of these scenes go on for about 5-8 minutes. I can safely judge a movie on a plot that prominent throughout the movie.

Okay, if I drop out the last one, that's like half an hour. Still, there's still the other hour of the movie that isn't that, which is arguably the majority. I guess it really didn't bother me because I thought of Chiharu as more of a plot device than a real character. Except for the first and last scene, the stuff happening pushes the other characters into meeting and doing stuff in the movie. The audience doesn't even really meet the real Chiharu in a non-flashback format till the very end of the movie.

>Hey, it's just my personal opinion. If the characters suck, then having a story involving the characters facing danger leaves me...uninvolved or uncaring.

That's the thing, you say you like the Riders, you thought Kikuma was okay. Are you saying you hate the movie because of one character that spends most of the movie kind of off-screen? I think it's fair to say that all the other characters had more screen time than the Chiharu plot. That's just the sense I get.

>Look at the grim color filters. It's even shot like a J-horror movie to boot.

I thought the drab colors were used in The First as well? I just assumed that was the style they wanted for these movies

>Thing is, Kamen Rider The First left me feeling dissapointed but at least it felt a little like a tribute to Kamen Rider. This movie left me pissed, namely because it didn't WANT to be a KR movie about a famous Rider like V3. Yes, the KR sequences rocked. I truly geeked out when all 3 Riders did their poses. Then, we go right back to Chiharu and the movie turns back to J-horror wannabe crap.

I don't really think of the confrontation between Kikuma, V3 and Chiharu as being j-horror, unless there was something scary that I was missing. I mean, I think it's supposed to be sad. Chiharu's all screwed up and V3 has to kill her to end it. That's the impression I got

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Post by DaikaijuSokogeki! » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:23 pm

>Wasn't it intentionally supposed to be different? Like more based on the manga? Given that a movie doesn't have the same time span to develop characters in the same way TV series do, I think they did a pretty good job with the riders. Hongo gets most of the development in both movies, but hey, main character.

Okay, I haven't read the manga. However, didn't the TV show come first? I don't mind Hongo getting the most development, but Shiro Kazami could've at least have been hinted at early on. He is mentioned for the first time when there's only an hour left.

>I don't think that's there at all

My mistake.

>Maybe he had a really good day job helping people out as a rescue worker

It's obvious that he doesn't live outside of his room. His hair, the lack of any lights, the way his mom serves him, not to mention the disturbing obsession of Chiharu.

>Obviously a pedophile

And? Wasn't she trying to stop Shocker? He certainly wasn't involved. Which reminds me, was her production group even related to Shocker at all? If not, then how did she know that Shocker was involved in her mutation?

>Yeah, but I liked this part since we find out later these girls kind of screwed Chiharu over

Read my point above. I could see her wanting revenge on the idols. But were they even related to Shocker? If not, then that subplot REALLY didn't belong in this movie if it had no relation to the main plot.

>Had to explain it somehow.

Yeah, but the scene felt ripped out of Ringu or Ju-on completely.

>I don't really acknowledge that scene as being part of the movie

Then why put it in the movie? If it's in the movie, well, that makes it a part of it.

>Okay, if I drop out the last one, that's like half an hour. Still, there's still the other hour of the movie that isn't that, which is arguably the majority. I guess it really didn't bother me because I thought of Chiharu as more of a plot device than a real character. Except for the first and last scene, the stuff happening pushes the other characters into meeting and doing stuff in the movie. The audience doesn't even really meet the real Chiharu in a non-flashback format till the very end of the movie.

Thing is, these scenes break up the flow of the film. As I've said before, the movie doesn't actually become a KR film until about half an hour in. Before Kamen Rider 1 shows up, there have already been three death scenes courtesy of Chiharu.

>That's the thing, you say you like the Riders, you thought Kikuma was okay. Are you saying you hate the movie because of one character that spends most of the movie kind of off-screen? I think it's fair to say that all the other characters had more screen time than the Chiharu plot. That's just the sense I get.

Yeah, I hate the movie for this subplot because it is so severely out of place. Every time it rears its ugly head, the film grinds to a total halt. The others may have had more screen time, but Chiharu is the driving force as you said earlier. She is the reason a bunch of the characters meet.

>I thought the drab colors were used in The First as well? I just assumed that was the style they wanted for these movies

I don't recall the blue and orange color filters being used so prominently in The First. I suppose I should rewatch it to check.

>I don't really think of the confrontation between Kikuma, V3 and Chiharu as being j-horror, unless there was something scary that I was missing. I mean, I think it's supposed to be sad. Chiharu's all screwed up and V3 has to kill her to end it. That's the impression I got

I don't mean the confrontation between V3 and Kikuma (I actually liked that part). However, I flashbacked to Ringu whenever Chiharu and Kikuma were together on screen during the climax. That part wasn't needed since V3 was facing Chiharu at the same time.

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Post by takenoko » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:34 pm

>Okay, I haven't read the manga. However, didn't the TV show come first?

I thought the manga came first. We were able to get The First listed on animesuki because of the manga connection. Could be wrong though, as I haven't read it either

>>Maybe he had a really good day job helping people out as a rescue worker
>It's obvious that he doesn't live outside of his room. His hair, the lack of any lights, the way his mom serves him, not to mention the disturbing obsession of Chiharu.

This was a joke response

>>Obviously a pedophile
>And? Wasn't she trying to stop Shocker? He certainly wasn't involved. Which reminds me, was her production group even related to Shocker at all? If not, then how did she know that Shocker was involved in her mutation?

As was this one

>Read my point above. I could see her wanting revenge on the idols. But were they even related to Shocker? If not, then that subplot REALLY didn't belong in this movie if it had no relation to the main plot.

Well, the storylines can't exist in a vacuum. Stuff is going to be about things other than the Riders' fight with the Shockers

>>I don't really acknowledge that scene as being part of the movie
>Then why put it in the movie? If it's in the movie, well, that makes it a part of it.

It felt kind of tacked on. That's why I don't consider it to be a part of it

>I don't mean the confrontation between V3 and Kikuma (I actually liked that part). However, I flashbacked to Ringu whenever Chiharu and Kikuma were together on screen during the climax. That part wasn't needed since V3 was facing Chiharu at the same time.

I'd argue against that. Kikuma had to confront Chiharu in some way, otherwise her story wouldn't have meant anything. I agree that it was strange for her to be in two places at once, these fantasy elements didn't need to be there.

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Post by DaikaijuSokogeki! » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:59 pm

I kinda figured those responses were jokes. I was just in an argumentative mood, I guess. :P

>Well, the storylines can't exist in a vacuum. Stuff is going to be about things other than the Riders' fight with the Shockers

Well, I could see it being a plot for an episode or two in a TV show. However, this was only a 104-minute movie. The time wasted on that pointless subplot could've been used to develop the actual main plot of the movie instead.

>It felt kind of tacked on. That's why I don't consider it to be a part of it

Yeah, it's DEFINITELY tacked on for no reason. But since it's in the movie, I just can't help but consider it a part of the movie.

>I'd argue against that. Kikuma had to confront Chiharu in some way, otherwise her story wouldn't have meant anything. I agree that it was strange for her to be in two places at once, these fantasy elements didn't need to be there.

Well, all I'll say about that is that it could've been handled much, much better.

Now, I know you all did a great job working on it, but I really didn't like the movie. At least this movie makes Kamen Rider The First better in retrospect, so there's a plus. :lol: This film also had great action sequences, mostly awesome SPFX, and I associated more with the Riders.
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When Ichimonji died, I actually felt really bummed despite my hatred of his character in the first film.


I guess I can't like everything you guys put out, but still, keep up the GREAT work. Besides, at least I gave this movie a chance instead of not watching it all.

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Re: Kamen Rider the Next released

Post by RidderWannaBe » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:40 pm

time for my intake on this movie keke


anyway this one doesnt feel much like a kamen rider movie till toward the middle it feels more like a jhorror movie i gotta say the first one is still better cus it feels more like a kamen rider movie but atleast i get to see V3s double rider kick

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Re: Re:

Post by Ghost23 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:47 pm

takenoko wrote:>Okay, I haven't read the manga. However, didn't the TV show come first?

I thought the manga came first. We were able to get The First listed on animesuki because of the manga connection. Could be wrong though, as I haven't read it either
Yes the Manga came out first, In the original series the riders did not put mask on, it was part of their transformation, The movie showed them putting mask on and that is taking it back to the original manga concept.

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