Are you a pirate?

Talk about Annie May here

What do you do if something is licensed? (You can choose more than one option)

Poll runs till Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:50 pm

I never pirate it, and only watch it if it's from a legal DVD/streaming service
3
4%
I only buy the DVD/stream if it's from a service/translator I respect
11
14%
I would buy the official work, but not if it's dubs
15
19%
I would buy the official work, but I usually can't because it's not in my region
8
10%
I would buy the official work, but I can't for financial reasons
16
21%
I would buy the official work, but I don't like the quality of commercial releases
6
8%
I wouldn't buy the official work, because I like the translations from fansubbers better
9
12%
I wouldn't buy the official work, because I don't like the way commercial companies do their releases
6
8%
I wouldn't buy the official work, because it's easier to just pirate it
3
4%
I wouldn't buy the official work, for some other reason not listed above
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 77

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Are you a pirate?

Post by takenoko » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:50 am

You come here, of course you are! But what kind of pirate are you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCYGWeSh378
I recently watched a Youtube video that argued that people should pirate anime. I thought his argument focused a little too much on features, rather than other things like overall quality or translation style, but I don't disagree with his notion that more competition/options is needed.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, what's your stance on localized stuff?

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Crimzonite » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:22 am

My view of fansubs is that they're there to tide you over until an official sub comes out (assuming it ever does). When that happens I get rid of the fansub and support the official release.

However, there are very rare cases where I don't. Like if the translation is just awful. Or it uses too many localized terms from an edited dub. Or the rare release where the subtitles are copied word-for-word from an edited dub (so you get subs appearing when no one is talking, or places where no subs appear at all). I just won't support those. If it's re-released with a better translation then I'll definitely pick it up.

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by takenoko » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:27 am

I'm curious, how much research do you do before you determine the licensed work has bad translations or uses dub terms? Do you have any examples of times when that's happened?

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Crimzonite » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:44 am

takenoko wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:27 am
I'm curious, how much research do you do before you determine the licensed work has bad translations or uses dub terms? Do you have any examples of times when that's happened?
Things like that usually show up in reviews or forum discussions. One example of a bad dubtitle was Candidate for Goddess's original release. I admit that I never saw it, but all the reviews and discussions about it mentioned that the subtitles were taken word-for-word from an edited dub, so that there were times where subs would appear when no one was speaking. The series has been re-released by Discotek, but I'm not sure if they used a new translation or did another dubtitle.

One example that I actually own is ADV's subtitled release of the first two seasons of Sailor Moon. For some reason it used "Crescent Moon Wand" instead of "Moon Stick". And Moon Princess Halation was called "Moon Princess Elimination", which is a bizarre hybrid of the original term and the one from DiC's dub. These were pretty much the only examples, and I'll admit it didn't bother me that much.

As I've mentioned before, releases like these are rare occurrences.

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by takenoko » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:53 am

Ah okay. Off the top of my head, I think the dubtitle thing is most egregious because of the subtitles that appear when there's no dialogue, or are mistimed to the audio. I think the Berserk movie on Netflix has that problem? It also appeared on early versions of the Totoro and Castle in the Sky DVDs. (I hope the new license holder for Ghibli stuff does a better job than Disney)

I got pretty (maybe unreasonably) mad when the dub name for one of the Gundams in G Gundam appeared in the subtitle. That made me wonder if the rest of the translations were dubtitles or if it was just one instance of an honest mistake.

I don't think I stated my own position. Personally, I don't tend to like the style for commercial release, so I rarely buy them. I usually only pick them up so I can hand the physical copy to people as a recommendation. Like I got the Initial D first stage box set for that reason.

I have looser standards for manga. Since it's a text-only medium, it's not as jarring for me to hear one thing, then look at the translation and go "Hey, that's not what's being said", so I tend to be more forgiving for the written medium. I also have less free time, so I just end up reading more manga than watching anime nowadays anyway.

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Mandalori » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:56 am

I got one example in mind : Yu-Gi-Oh Dark Side of Dimension. I've came across one of these on Kissanime. It became obvious when there was subtitles when no one was talking, like in one scene where Kaiba was waiting for his computer to finish an analysis and the subtitles showed some dialogues that would have been his if it was in the dub (since his personality in the dub is a little different than in the Japanese version) and if he was talking (which he didn't in that particular scene). I don't know if it was fixed.

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Lunagel » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:12 am

One example that always sticks out for me is Castle of Cagliostro's original dub where they really retooled Lupin's personality to be much more of a smooth-talking sarcastic bastard but also included additional dialogue during some quiet scenes. They were actually quite funny but I don't feel they really respected the tone the movie was trying to go for.

However, there was also the Magic Knight Rayearth sub from years ago when it was on VHS and it always stuck in my craw that for -chan, they used "-ster" (so Hikaru would always go "Umi-ster! Fuu-ster!") and for -san it was invariably "Mr." or "Ms." (which felt super awkward when Fuu would always refer to her same-age friends as Ms. Umi and Ms. Hikaru).

And I still don't like how in the Spirited Away dub all the gods were referred to as "spirits" as they were afraid of offending Christians.

It's very hard to strike the right balance between faithfulness and watchability, and I think most of the time these days the industry manages to get it right, but fansubs still do have that extra feeling of love and passion for the show itself, not for the paycheck involved.

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Crimzonite » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:14 am

Lunagel wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:12 am
However, there was also the Magic Knight Rayearth sub from years ago when it was on VHS and it always stuck in my craw that for -chan, they used "-ster" (so Hikaru would always go "Umi-ster! Fuu-ster!")

Oh lord, I remember that. >_< I hope that was dropped from later releases.

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by takenoko » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:26 am

I had the Magic Knight Rayearth DVDs, but I donated them to the library since I never watched them. I thought their release format was stupid, since instead of numbering their volumes, they decided to give each volume a unique name. So you'd have to look on the back to make sure you were on the DVD with the right episode number.
Lunagel wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:12 am
And I still don't like how in the Spirited Away dub all the gods were referred to as "spirits" as they were afraid of offending Christians.
That's tricky. I think we had a similar argument about Torin for Kyouryuuger. I sort of like "deities" for local gods. Just because most people think of gods as either capital G God or like the super strong Greek gods. I haven't seen SPirited Away in a while, but aren't most the creatures in that more spirits and local gods than anything else?

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Lunagel » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:41 am

takenoko wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:26 am
Lunagel wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:12 am
And I still don't like how in the Spirited Away dub all the gods were referred to as "spirits" as they were afraid of offending Christians.
That's tricky. I think we had a similar argument about Torin for Kyouryuuger. I sort of like "deities" for local gods. Just because most people think of gods as either capital G God or like the super strong Greek gods. I haven't seen SPirited Away in a while, but aren't most the creatures in that more spirits and local gods than anything else?
I mean we're really delving into matters of religion/spirituality there. "Deity" might've worked well but I feel like "spirit" is more like nymph or fae. Deity involves worship whereas people don't usually worship spirits. And while there are some "great" gods in the Japanese pantheon, the local ones tend to be all at the same level of respect so I still would refer to them as "gods"

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by midorininger » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:32 am

my biggest examples
HERE i got TF headmasters/masterforce/victory and it was translated pretty well. then official subs came out awhile back via best buy. the fan subs were more fluent and read smoother. the official ones often felt like direct translations with little speech/grammar corrections.
then there is dragon ball super ...
the dub is terrible. it just is. not ALL dubs are bad. but they really need to pick VAs whos voices match the character, and also think about picking a voice that goes well with the character. the whole, "are whiz and beerus gay" thing simply started because of how their VAs make them sound, and the modified scripts their given.
the english VA for ichigo from bleach worked for me. BUT that same VA for Lelouch? n-no.
going back to DBS, i actually think emglish goku sounds, and comes off as, stupider than japanese Goku.
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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by VerusMaya II » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:57 am

I often find official releases go too far in the localization to make their release more palatable for a wider audience, which from a business perspective makes sense, but as a consumer irritates me. Sometimes Crunchyroll does this with their subs, too. This can be either adding stuff where there is none, or excluding things all together. Similarly, sometimes dubs just like... won't shut up and let the show breathe?

I also think - and honestly, Japanese releases have this issue too so it's probably an industry/capitalism thing - that official releases cost way too much for how much content we get on the actual disc. I know there are cases of NA releases where you're paying 30 - 40 dollars for 3 episodes on one disc, and no extras except maaaaybe dual audio. Are you kidding me? I'm not made of money.

And that's probably the last bit. It's hard enough just paying my bills and existing, I have to really truly want something (or it has to offer a really good deal / something unique) for me to purchase it.
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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Phoenix512 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:58 am

I try to watch stuff legally but I do download files so I can watch anime at work since my phone barely gets a signal there and also I can't really stream stuff due to my really limited data plan. I also download files so it's easier to watch things with my friends than depend on a stream that may hiccup on occasion. I only really support CR at the moment since I refuse to get Anime Strike (due to the double paywall, Amazon is treating anime like it's HBO and Showtime) and Netflix (they don't believe in simulcast except for Japan which is such a double standard because it hurts those shows because people will forget about the show by the time Netflix releases the whole thing to the rest of the world).

Physical releases are much better now in NA with releasing in box sets not individual releases of 3-4 episodes per disc at $30-40. Even though there are Japanese companies releasing stuff in NA and trying to bring their Japanese pricing structure of small episode counts at high prices.

Even though I'm not a dub person but I do believe dubs are generally better than they were in the 90s. The exception to this are the dubs of popular shows back in the day (Dragonball, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh) which they are stuck with the decisions they made back then and can't fix them or face backlash.

My main subbing complaint at the moment is with the Garo anime which they changed Priests to Alchemists. There's no reason for this as they say the Japanese word for Priest not the Japanese word for Alchemist. It's not like the Japanese word for magic user where it can be translated into various English terms for magic users (wizards, sorcerers, mages).
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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by ShepardRahl » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:02 am

Funimation and Crunchyroll have pretty much ruined commercial releases for me. I don't really trust any company anymore not to censor something, change characters completely, or completely rewrite scenes to push some political agenda and say it's all in the name of "localization". The only companies I would really trust with this are the ones that translate their work in house. Otherwise I've found most fan-subbers to be much more faithful to the original work. Almost to a T.
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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by takenoko » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:44 am

How are the translations for Crunchyroll like? I think the last anime I watched was Haikyuu season 1, which had okay translations, but I think I saw maybe like 1 spelling error and one line I found questionable.

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