Are you a pirate?

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What do you do if something is licensed? (You can choose more than one option)

Poll ended at Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:50 pm

I never pirate it, and only watch it if it's from a legal DVD/streaming service
3
4%
I only buy the DVD/stream if it's from a service/translator I respect
12
15%
I would buy the official work, but not if it's dubs
16
20%
I would buy the official work, but I usually can't because it's not in my region
8
10%
I would buy the official work, but I can't for financial reasons
17
21%
I would buy the official work, but I don't like the quality of commercial releases
7
9%
I wouldn't buy the official work, because I like the translations from fansubbers better
10
12%
I wouldn't buy the official work, because I don't like the way commercial companies do their releases
6
7%
I wouldn't buy the official work, because it's easier to just pirate it
3
4%
I wouldn't buy the official work, for some other reason not listed above
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 82

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Catastrophe » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:23 am

I sure hope you don't work for the FBI Take and this has just been a sting operation 15 years in the making.

Yes. All the time.

Anime/Manga/Toku. All pirated. I mean, I don't usually keep an archive of anything and only watch it once, so for me it's like having watched it on TV but been able to understand it.

Besides, I don't want to even think about how much money Bandai has made off me because of this. Their advertising has worked and they got their money a different way!

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by TorchWood » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:02 pm

The stuff that TV-Nihon releases already have two strikes against them, and both are well-known by the participants in this forum. The first is that this is "foreign language" material, and the second is that it is subtitle only. If you take a look at the top ten foreign language films, to break the top ten requires that you gross $20 million in the US box office. Anime? For the top ten Anime films, the cost of entry is $5 million gross. (It pains me to see the Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh movies make more than the Oscar-winning and critically acclaimed Spirited Away, but that's another discussion.) For comparison, last weekend's top grossing film made $16 million.

Having said that, TV-Nihon mainly deals with foreign television releases, which means a small and tight budget for the same commercial release to a more limited audience.... even more so than if a series was released ten years ago. There were multiple companies releasing anime on DVD ten years ago. How many are there now? Three? Home media sales across the board have been going down, with even major Hollywood releases getting the less-than-deluxe treatment that would have been unimaginable only a few years ago. Fan-subs tend to be a labor of love by that community.

There are also technical limitations with DVD subtitles as they are bitmap images that are limited to four colors (one of them being transparent) and tend to look crude while fan-subbed subtitles are hard-burned and tend to use a wide variety of fonts. (Remember, DVD was released in 1997.) I don't know about BluRay subtitles.

So, where does that leave me? I have picked up the licensed releases of both Super Sentai and Garo, however, I have retained the TV-Nihon releases... which means that for two series, the DVD releases are in their shrinkwrap. I do believe in supporting legitimate releases.
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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by takenoko » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:15 pm

TorchWood wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:02 pm
So, where does that leave me? I have picked up the licensed releases of both Super Sentai and Garo, however, I have retained the TV-Nihon releases... which means that for two series, the DVD releases are in their shrinkwrap. I do believe in supporting legitimate releases.
But you do watch some of those DVDs right?

Do any of you guys just buy the DVDs to support the commercial companies, despite not watching them or preferring fansubs, just to support them?

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by TorchWood » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:03 am

Lunagel wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:12 am
One example that always sticks out for me is Castle of Cagliostro's original dub where they really retooled Lupin's personality to be much more of a smooth-talking sarcastic bastard but also included additional dialogue during some quiet scenes. They were actually quite funny but I don't feel they really respected the tone the movie was trying to go for.
I recently viewed Cagliostro that had the Streamline Pictures dub from 1992, and referred to Lupin as "The Wolf". I consider the Manga dub better.
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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Lunagel » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:32 am

TorchWood wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:03 am
Lunagel wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:12 am
One example that always sticks out for me is Castle of Cagliostro's original dub where they really retooled Lupin's personality to be much more of a smooth-talking sarcastic bastard but also included additional dialogue during some quiet scenes. They were actually quite funny but I don't feel they really respected the tone the movie was trying to go for.
I recently viewed Cagliostro that had the Streamline Pictures dub from 1992, and referred to Lupin as "The Wolf". I consider the Manga dub better.
Oh, I always thought that the Manga dub was the original, I didn't know there was one before that. I was referring to that one when I wrote the above.

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Des_Shinta » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:33 pm

My policy is if it's officially released with all the proper content, then I get that version of it in a show of support, finances-willing. The only time I've refused to is if the release perpetuates lies and alterations of the underlying material, or the people producing said content are entirely incompetent.
Like, the sentai DVD sets. While I still have copies of Other translations of what they've done thus-far as they haven't outdone any of the fansub groups (though that'll likely change when they get to GogoV), I still bought the Shout Factory release even if they're imperfect, as they make an honest effort, and have improved their quality every time. So I have no issues supporting them, even if there's obvious flaws in all the sets. Kraken has gotten my Money for their garo releases, and I have found zero Fault with the work put into them. The sets lack anything extra and those are a bit overpriced, but that's not a fault to the quality of the product overall.
Whereas I refuse to Support the likes of 4Kids entertainment (now 4K media) or those who mimic or promote their policies in any way, shape or form; so I'm a full-on Pirate for Yugioh anime material simply for my objections on the Principle of the matter concerning their localizations. In example, the recent Darkside of Dimensions movie? Konami, who now funds 4K directly, released an official statement that the Dub wouldn't change anything from the japanese version bar the pre-existing name changes. DSoD released, the dub version of the story was entirely gutted; and then the home video release's original printing was absent the proper japanese subtitle track advertised on the case, only possessing dubtitles until enough people raised a stink about being Lied to Twice-over. That's the kind of thing I refuse to support, as they have had literal Years to improve, differing series where they could make a clean-break to a much better and respectful translation, and yet anything coming from 4K is worse and more disrespectful than the last thing they made.
I don't think I'm alone on that, considering how many times they've declared bankruptcy now, and how popular the officially, properly subtitled versions of things they did dubs for have in turn been received.

As for things coming from, say, Funimation and crunchyroll...That's more problematic as it's infrequent when they go bad. I've found various faults in Crunchyroll's work due to them more formatting things as Dubtitles (and sometimes even just getting a caption track OF the dub) instead of going the proper translation route in many of the things I would want to watch from their library, and Funimation seems to have hired translators lately that take too many liberties with the material.
I think many of us remember the whole 'Prison school gamergate line change' incident that erased how the character who spoke the line was more on about respect between peers instead of anything retaliatory against mysogyny, which can affect how characters and situations read and detract from the show. Usually these are isolated and normally their work does carry the overall intent even with line changes, but they're more common to be harmfully erroneous in the simuldubs, and whatever ends up coming from their Texas Branch. I ended up really disappointed in the Ms Kobayashi's Dragon Maid Dub, as the woman who localized the scripts was contemptuous to the material and that translated into...well, her translation.
Like others in this thread, I also have much the same issue with the Garo Dubs and them changing "Makai Priest" To "Makai Alchemist". I get why they did it, The Christian Right-wing would attack an anime show depicting a holy order utilizing Arcane arts (Even though that is a common trope across all media by this point), but that changed immensely how the Carved seal of flame 'read' as a series with it's 'Holy War Crusade' storyline, since that change removed the context that the crusade was AGAINST the holy order, and never really sought to restore that context. Regardless of what you think of the Garo Anime series, it's a bad translation when essential material needed to understand the story is lost.
Thus, I feel I'm more selective In supporting them, and check out the dub first through less-legal means before I commit to buying.

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Silentwolfdog » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:09 pm

I am sort of in a dilemma atm. Was still pondering on how to solve it let alone vote. I am in a group that most companies obviously don't cater to or care about, as result of that, I don't know whether to buy to support em or not.

For example, as a huge Garo fan, I contacted the company on Garo bluray when they announced they are localizing it (effort I rarely do unless it means a lot to me). Alas, instead of being an excited fan, my heart sank the day I got the copy and turns out they ignored my request...and not sub English part at the beginning of series. So where does that leave me as? Do I still buy it to support the franchise like a fan should, or do I skip it since company don't seem to care about customers like me and hurting the niche project in doing so? (I still buy Garo copy regardless since I enjoy collecting Garo stuff. It's just...US version is one of those thing, I can't be proud of due to what they did.)

It's bad enough knowing most localization companies don't even caption shows on top of subtitles. So what happens if I want to let other deaf viewers know what shows to watch? Do I go with fansub although illegal or legal copy although they get less compared to hearing people?

Unlike most fans, it's something I have struggled with for long time. At least with fansub, I don't have to worry about spending money especially if they did poor job or ignoring our needs.


Of course, there's also typical issues like other people have with such as censorship, poor translation, etc. that plays factor in whether one buy it or pirate it.

How frustrating...lol. Would like to see your opinions on it.
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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by takenoko » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:11 pm

I say if they don't sub it the way you like it, the only way to get your message across is to not support them. You vote with your dollar.

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Ashki » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:19 am

The Kamen Rider V3 boxed set has been on my wishlist for several years now, and I feel they did a great job (a decent translation of the whole series plus all those yummy extras for only $150 USD!). The opposite can be said for DaiRanger. I watch very little anime these days, but ADV and other companies always did a good job on the series I would watch. Some things, like turning Devil Gigatron into Galvatron I tolerate because I know Hasbro has to reuse names to retain their trademarks. Other choices, such as replacing words like god or devil simply because someone might get angry treads too far into SJW territory for my liking and I almost always avoid those official releases, even if there are no other translattions available.

As far as finances, regions, etc. goes... I buy what I can buy when I can buy it, but only if the "professional" quality lives up to the fansubs. I'd honestly rather have seen someone from Toei buy the T-N subs for a small amount and use those than to have licensed them to idiots. Had they done so, I would have bought the DVDs the moment I could afford them, even though I had the same product already on my hard drive for free.
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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Monkeyjb1988 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:42 am

I almost complained about you not having an option like "I watch fansubs because there's no official release", but I realized Japanese releases count as well. I picked I would buy the official work, but I can't for financial reasons and I would buy the official work, but not if it's dubs. I usually JUMP on every one of Shout's Sentai releases and I'm eyeing the GARO releases from Kraken. I also have several discs from Japan of Sentai, Kamen Rider, Ultraman, and even Godzilla (in my defense, they're Godzilla 1984 (it wasn't on US blu-ray when I bought it; double-dipped because it was under $10 and had subtitles and kept Japanese disc for bonus features and 5.1 audio mix) and King Kong vs. Godzilla (still no release of Japanese version in US; bought US dub to watch with my dad). That said, I'd probably rely less on fansubbers if Japanese releases were cheaper (although I'd still go for scripts to add to the Japanese videos I rip). I twice bought fan DVDs but I realized that's a step too far and have replaced each one with official releases :)

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by BuraddoRun » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:42 pm

So I do buy commercial releases if they come out on DVD or Blu-ray. I don't buy digital-only releases. In fact, for a lot of things, I make my own DVDs for personal use and to take to friends' houses to watch, complete with cases and cover art. Regardless, if there is an officially subtitled physical release later, I'll buy it, even if the subtitles are less accurate than the fansubs. But, that's why generally for my favorite shows I'll still hold on to my fansubs even though I buy the licensed releases. Megaranger is a good example. I downloaded both TVN's and MFC's episodes, and watched the entire series before Shout! announced their release. I made a big case and DVDs of all the episodes. But once it was announced for an official release, I pre-ordered it, and finally got it in last week. To be honest I may not even ever watch Shout's Megaranger episodes, but I still want to support the official release. So there it will sit on my shelf beside my homemade fansub Megaranger DVDs.

If I've downloaded a fansubbed series and then it officially gets licensed but only via stream, I won't support it honestly. I'm a fan of physical media, so I buy my games, movies, and yes, even music on disc still.

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by DoctorWho1987 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:18 pm

One example would be Itazura Na kiss for me purely because Netflix's Subs are horrible. Takenoko, I meant Itazura na kiss not good morning call. Good morning calls Subs were spot-on usually

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Renigami » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:44 pm

I don't think my answer is there so I will elaborate here instead.

If the show is good, I would support the show but not in ways many may think of right away.

A best example with me, is with Kamen Rider and the resulting interactive toys. Sure they may eventually sit around and not be used, but I can say it is more hands on and gives my hands more context in relation to the show's use and something to do. Watching something again is something I don't do, and will only replay videos as background in vying for my attention, that is if the show is VERY good enough to start for me to play back again to keep my mind background being occupied. Ex-Aid ALMOST had me buy the driver and gashats... almost... but the bulk missed some aspects of the design. I don't play Pokemon with the collectables though.

Kamen Rider shows rarely get a rewatch - or even a full watch for some series. Ghost is one offender. Build is another that made me break away from Kamen Rider. As far as anime, I don't ever go back in watching again as primary attention or even secondary attention - only if it is VERY good enough to pick out and piece the encompassing good plot of the story, and to busy my mind background while I do something else.

I dislike manga. The harsh black and dominant white. Because of this, I cannot easily skim like I can with some other content. Paneling is haphazard pending style. I tried previewing stuff on store shelves and it just never stuck. It is shorter than tying my attention to say a text novel though by far, graphic novels being more "easier" on visuals in contrast but still ties my attention dominantly. With television shows, most of the time I can get all I can just with them in peripheral view.

Good shows, will facilitate my primary attention at this point. Garo is one of them, as there simply is many subtle elements that one has to focus on the entire presentation for full context, and one can easily miss why the drama shifts or why little details can be event changing in character's actions and portrayals. But like my re-watching stance, I seldom do this. Garo also does not have any interactive merchandise like Kamen Rider, most of it is "buy it to sit around and look pretty".

Which is why I mentioned I have dropped Kamen Rider for now. Ex-Aid got to this point of being in waning interest levels to my peripheral attention with repetitious flandarization, lacking substance for my primary attention.

About anime... I am DONE with anime. Too often what is supposed to be animated, remains.... well not animated. Slice of life ones show more empty cities and classrooms of mannequins with clothes. Action anime shows jarring warped caricatures of an already anime-esq caricature human form. Those anthropomorphic is in my view "causing confused boners to those not ready" and if you really want my view "Sally Acorn caused furries". But that is diving off into another lake all together.

Anime also has HARSH loudness, and MORE flandarization over time. It gets old FAST. Naruto, I saw by "other means" but even then it was a pain, even as a background because it is grating, nevermind tying my time if I were to be glued to it. Bleach by that same manner. Both in action scenes and battles take way too many episodes in length, I stopped caring why any plot is there at all, or reasons such a battle ensured... And if it is about the animated techniques, very few such fluent executions happen and more often both sides sit and dialogue or the view pans to the side-bench and OTHERS give un-animated expressions of dialogue of what is supposed to be a battle of animated action with no jarring stops of no-animation. This is but a few examples why I cannot tolerate lengthy runs of anime, nor understand why people insisted on such to begin with... To go back to Detective Conan.... well you get the picture...

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Re: Are you a pirate?

Post by Bomyne » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:05 pm

Depends on the show.

With Pokemon, I'd be okay buying the official english dub. I know some people don't agree but in my opinion, it was done really well in the English version... except certain censor problems :P (That is not a jelly donut, Brock...)

With Sentai/Kamen Rider, if I were to purchase it, I'd rather be able to purchase the original unsubbed version and load a sub file from a fan subbing group I enjoy.

The trouble is, those aren't released in my region. Japan is region 2 (Europe, Japan, the Middle East, Egypt, South Africa, Greenland), Whereas Australia is region 4.
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