Should other actors be used for movies?

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eijiman
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Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by eijiman »

After watching some movies, specially the Sh taisen ones, this question came to my mind.

Should they use different actors to represent past riders?

I know its a little bit different, but when you see superman, he can be Christopher Reeves, Tom weilling or the other guys and he will still be superman, so why not here?

yes, i know what you are thinking, it would be a dick move to not let the actors like Hiroshi Fujioka, Tetsuo kurata, Inoue etc. to represent their roles. and it would be a blasphemy to change 1 into a pretty boy. But on the other side, we got guys like Joe odagiri, who are not coming back. Meaning we are not going to have Godai anymore.

So what are your toughts on this?

I think it should be done, but giving the original actors preference:

My main reason is this:
Movies could be better written. Having access to all riders means you can use the ones that fit best the story instead of those who are available.
we are not inmortal, some don't want to act anymore, or at least not on tokus, so that means they won't have to just cross from the list the riders whose actors can't or don't want to do it anymore.
they can develop stories, for example decade has a lot to be explained, and using some actors to fill the roles of guys important to the story but who won't play them anymore,
And well the badpoints would be:
We could risk getting guys like Hiroshi or Tetsuo changed for some pretty boys.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by midorininger »

so long as they look close enough to the role then it should be fine. however this is coming from an american stand point. perhaps there is a japanese reason they dont have actors share roles? but hey, if sentai is as big there as marvel/dc is here i cant imagine why any past sentai actor would pass the chance up to reprise a role. but if they pass away or something to that avail then why not address it as a torch passing? but as for sentai, i mean come on we cant expect gorenger members to be alive for the 100th sentai anniversary right?
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by Jehal »

I think it'd be fine to recast past riders, so long as the recast looks the part. When Takeru Satoh's manager banned him from reappearing as Den-O, Toei called in Takuya Mizoguchi to take over, since they already used him to portray the younger Ryotaro anyways.
For older riders, they should get older actors. I don't want to see Tetsuo replaced by a pretty boy who looks younger than the current rider.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by takenoko »

I dunno, they sort of do this already with voice actors. Since some characters never appear untransformed, they can just have any suit actor/voice actor replace the old character.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by HowlingSnail »

Voice actors you can get away with it mostly, but I think with live-action you shouldn't. I'm admittedly no Superman expert but aren't the different actors basically reboots of the franchise? That's a lot different to suddenly having the same version of the same character suddenly played by a different actor. It's like how in the Doctor Who 20th anniversary episode "The Five Doctors" the actor who played the 1st Doctor was dead so they recast him and all I can think watching it is "You don't look, sound or act anything like William Hartnell". So no, I don't think re-casting is a good idea unless an explanation is given for their change of appearance.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by Mxylv »

I think that since Japanese culture is so embedded in tradition, replacing the actors would be a lot less likely than it'd be for Western audiences (I don't think Ultraman's rise or Riders transforming by saying "henshin" would have been around today, had they been American shows). As of now, I think that if the actor's available, he/she should reprise the role, but if the actor's not coming back (which could simply mean a state like Christopher Eccleston's in Doctor Who), it'd be fine by me.

My biggest concerns are that the new actors should look/sound like the original characters, that the newly cast replacements aren't overused, and that the characters' personalities should remain the same (like how Henry Cavill's Superman is quite different from Christopher Reeve's, the temptation to avoid would be for Toei to "modernize" the character, which probably translates to making them more likeable for a younger audience).
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by starofjustice »

I don't have really deep feelings on the subject, but I will say that when they did Kamen Rider The First with new actors and a new setting, that by itself wasn't a problem with the movie. That could've been interesting and I wasn't bothered by having new, younger actors. That they didn't do that great a job doesn't ruin the idea for me.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by Jehal »

Mxylv wrote:My biggest concerns are that the new actors should look/sound like the original characters, that the newly cast replacements aren't overused, and that the characters' personalities should remain the same (like how Henry Cavill's Superman is quite different from Christopher Reeve's, the temptation to avoid would be for Toei to "modernize" the character, which probably translates to making them more likeable for a younger audience).
This is exactly what I wanted to say earlier.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by mholden020 »

My opinion really depends on how regularly a character appears in a television series, or if the character regularly appears frequently in a series of films.

In the case of Superman, like the picture, any guy who looks similar to the one prior is just fine for the role since that character is either in a comic book, tv cartoon, or a live-action movie. The same for Batman, which is even easier since he's got basically a fully-covered head. Where it gets foggy for me is something like the Avengers, where the characters appear over and over and over to the point where the character is now tied to the actor. Yes, they got away with Mark Ruffalo replacing Edward Norton for the Hulk, but that character had only appeared one time at that point. On the other hand, it'd be nearly impossible to re-cast Tony Stark, Thor, or Steve Rogers at this point without audience backlash.

As for the Kamen Rider/Super Sentai/Etc. films, I'd say that the same rules for the Avengers characters apply. Each Rider or Sentai Ranger has had a full season to be that character, so we know the Rider/Ranger as that actor. Takenoko mentioned the voice swaps, which is quite alright, in my opinion, but if Decade took off his suit and it was Tori Matsuzaka underneath, that'd be a giant "nope" moment. Some of the original Riders are getting on up there in age, and unless I'm mistaken the actors for Stronger and Riderman passed away, so those two would be difficult to have reappear in a newer series. It would be simple enough to go one of two routes for the older riders though, with either 1) Have a "hand-off" film where the original Rider, like Takeshi Hongo, passes the Ichigo powers to someone new (Which is what I was expecting with The First...), or 2) Just Den-O the hell out of it and bring a young actor "from the past" and have a bunch of 20-year-olds again.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by Ashki »

HowlingSnail wrote:Voice actors you can get away with it mostly, but I think with live-action you shouldn't. I'm admittedly no Superman expert but aren't the different actors basically reboots of the franchise? That's a lot different to suddenly having the same version of the same character suddenly played by a different actor. It's like how in the Doctor Who 20th anniversary episode "The Five Doctors" the actor who played the 1st Doctor was dead so they recast him and all I can think watching it is "You don't look, sound or act anything like William Hartnell". So no, I don't think re-casting is a good idea unless an explanation is given for their change of appearance.
This was a major sticking point for me as well. At least the other actor whose been portraying the First Doctor more recently makes some effort to emulate Hartnell.

But I see two ways through this:

1. The actor must be able to impersonate the character/original actor. A few aesthetic changes and stuff is fine if that character hasn't been around for a while.
2. The character is blatently modified. For example, an alternate universe version (Kuuga from DCD) or for the Showa cyborgs, maybe they had to alter their appearance due to their inability to age normally. You can't have an 80 year ol Hongou running around looking 25 without people asking questions.

For Super Sentai, we have the excuse of the Great War and loss of powers. Perhaps getting their powers back after Gokaiger altered their bodies through a sort of partial regeneration. And the Showa era teams are a lot more obscure in terms of vieo releases, so it's easier to recast Big One or the members of Fiveman.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by takenoko »

I'm surprised we haven't talked more about Joe Odagiri and him being replaced by Murai Ryouta as Kuuga, since Joe's infamous for saying he didn't like the character/role. If someone's dead/gone/unavailable then just by having the character be taken over by their son/daughter/ or alternate universe version is all you can do. (Or too expensive or famous to bring back like Satoh Takeru or Mizushima Hiro)
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by Phoenix512 »

Those Ultramen have it real easy since they can just use random humans for their hosts. Who cares if the original hosts die since they can get a new one.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by eijiman »

Yeah, i see that all of you actually see why it is different from superman or spiderman actors. they were created first as a comic, and while KR was also a manga, the TV show is something even more important, so while people look at superman like a guy in blue spandex that flies, they see Inoue as Decade, and such. that would be the main problem. But now that you mention Avangers think about it, if Downey decided to stop from being Iron man, I bet the fans would not be upset if they changed him for next movies, now if the producers changed him, there would be problems. I think here is the same, if the actors don't want to be KR anymore, the fans should understand that the replacement is for the good of the characters and fans.
Ashki wrote:
HowlingSnail wrote: 1. The actor must be able to impersonate the character/original actor. A few aesthetic changes and stuff is fine if that character hasn't been around for a while.
2. The character is blatently modified. For example, an alternate universe version (Kuuga from DCD) or for the Showa cyborgs, maybe they had to alter their appearance due to their inability to age normally. You can't have an 80 year ol Hongou running around looking 25 without people asking questions.
Yeah, usually the first one would be the best, even more, many of the guys who watch the movies are kids who don't know many of the past riders and the grown ups, who take their kids to see them and probably don't even remember that well how they looked. Now there are fans like us, who see the series and stuff, but at least I would rather have a good story than to have the original actor always.

Now the second i actually thought about it also:
For me the dialog to explain would be something like:
New Hongo: Yes, it looked like we aged, but it was just a system made by shocker to don't raise suspicions, You know?, I was born as Hongo Takeshi, of course i had some attachment to that name and body but right now, it was weird to have a guy like me still going on and fighting, so I guess it was time to let Hongo Takeshi go. I guess you can't stop life from it's ever changing path, not even if you are a Kamen Rider.

Oh, and thanks for putting this on the front page, Takenoko.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by takenoko »

No prob. It's an interesting topic to be sure. Probably will become even more relevant as more of the original actors for characters start dying off.
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Re: Should other actors be used for movies?

Post by Ashki »

takenoko wrote:I'm surprised we haven't talked more about Joe Odagiri and him being replaced by Murai Ryouta as Kuuga, since Joe's infamous for saying he didn't like the character/role.
I've seen interviews an such since where he's said he actually did enjoy his time as a rider. I'm moer than willing to bet it was an agency call and not him. But that brings up yet another dilemma. Look at Sela, for example. Her actress is a professional model, and she was most likely given the role for the sake of going through the paces. But the writers have treated her like wallpaper for most of the series so far. when the show's over, she'll probably have many fond memories but her agents will tell her "You're done with this stuff". She might have it in her contact to do the crossover with whatever sentai comes next, but will she be around for the 45th anniversary? Probably not.

Tokusatsu is an exposure gimmick in Japan. If you're on KR or SS especially, then your name gets out there. But Its literally considered a shortcut for many agents, and once a client is done with a series, they consider it a step down to do any more. Odagiri may have said he didn't like the role, but he's admitte to fond memories, and acknowledges the fan base. Compare that to the original Pink Ranger from MMPR who has done everything in her power short of burning the master tapes to distance herself from that role.

No, I think we have to seriusly consider the roles of agencies in whether or not an actor can reprise their roles. Odagiri will likely never return, but at this point, that's just because it's been too long and the role's already been recast (as I mentioned in my last post).But I think some of the other missing actors may one day return if they have enough clout to overrule their agents. And there will be some who simly choose not to return for one reaon or another.

I could picture Accel returning as a robot... wait, he already is. Let me try this again... I could picture Accel coming back with a new actor under the premise that he needed to do plastic surgery for an undercover job. Or a later Showa Rider changing faces to better hie from Shocker, now that Toei's madde it clear Shocker are the overall villain for all KR.

One last thought that should be brought up:

Spoiler
In toku, characers die. So I think it wouldn't be right to skip over the elephant in the room by mentioning actors who who reprise dead characters. The one that comes to mind is the Black Ranger from Jetman. We saw him die, but it wasn't confirmed until he returned in Gokaiger and led them to his grave. so perhaps we should also include whether it's okay to let actors reprise roles for which the character has died, given they have an acceptable reason for appearing (ghost, flashback, reconstruction/clone, etc.)
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