KR Decade 15 Released

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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by kaemmerite » Mon May 11, 2009 3:16 am

wingform84 wrote:in the first episode he turned into 3 riders, Kabuto, Faiz, and Hibiki.. so I'm thinking all three are actually pretty popular series.
I knew my ability to retain useless information would come in handy sooner or later. I remember takenoko posting a thread containing a rough plot of KR/Sentai popularity.

http://tvnihon.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=2407

Hibiki and Faiz were actually fairly popular. Kabuto, not so much.
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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by hisakuya » Mon May 11, 2009 3:43 am

So the first half of the series is just introducing the riders and their powers

The second half is the real story?

I believe Hibiki was featured last since this is the best example of

what a real KR story should be :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by Arigomi » Mon May 11, 2009 3:48 am

I get the feeling Hibiki is last just because they didn't know what to do with it and procrastinated. It is so different from the other series in so many ways (Hibiki doesn't even have a rider kick).

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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by Dengar » Mon May 11, 2009 6:13 am

Lack of a rider kick really doesn't matter that much. Den-O had one but it was far from being the most-used finisher.

Hibiki still had very different monsters though.

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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by CrimsonJoker » Mon May 11, 2009 9:29 am

Who knows? Least shown and filmed could be the most thought out.
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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by Iaatix » Mon May 11, 2009 3:04 pm

Dengar wrote:Yes, quite.

I really don't understand what's up with the Den-O hate. Especially given that the haters just can't seem to find proper explanations for their hate other than being uninformed.
Ok, since you asked, I'll tell you my reasons, which I suspect are your reasons for liking it.
1) I hate, hate, HATE the slapstick nature of it. I don't want a lot of comedy in my kamen rider, I want a serious darkness and/or weirdness.
2) The "taros" costumes are especially cheap looking, although that may be because you see them more than any other costumes.
3) I seriously didn't find any understandable plot. I never understood the boat on the lake thing and what exactly happened there.
4) There was nothing really scary about the bad guys, they didn't seem to even have a real reason for what they were doing. Orphanochs, Worms, Fanguire, etc. seemed to be a threat...nothing threatening by the Imagin.
I could keep going, but those are the most obvious reasons I dislike it.
kaemmerite wrote: Hibiki and Faiz were actually fairly popular. Kabuto, not so much.
I suspect that is because Kabuto was almost a little too much like a repeat of Faiz. The characters and plot were very similar.

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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by That Guy » Mon May 11, 2009 3:28 pm

Iaatix wrote:
Dengar wrote:Yes, quite.

I really don't understand what's up with the Den-O hate. Especially given that the haters just can't seem to find proper explanations for their hate other than being uninformed.
Ok, since you asked, I'll tell you my reasons, which I suspect are your reasons for liking it.
1) I hate, hate, HATE the slapstick nature of it. I don't want a lot of comedy in my kamen rider, I want a serious darkness and/or weirdness.
2) The "taros" costumes are especially cheap looking, although that may be because you see them more than any other costumes.
3) I seriously didn't find any understandable plot. I never understood the boat on the lake thing and what exactly happened there.
4) There was nothing really scary about the bad guys, they didn't seem to even have a real reason for what they were doing. Orphanochs, Worms, Fanguire, etc. seemed to be a threat...nothing threatening by the Imagin.
I could keep going, but those are the most obvious reasons I dislike it.
Did you finish Den-O? Because all of this was cleared up. Granted, it was still full of slapstick, but all the plot issues you mentioned were explained.

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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by Iaatix » Mon May 11, 2009 5:02 pm

Drago11 wrote: Did you finish Den-O? Because all of this was cleared up. Granted, it was still full of slapstick, but all the plot issues you mentioned were explained.
I did finish it and the movies (don't get me started on the detective thing). I realize they think they explained things, but I couldn't follow it.

Anyway, that's a discussion for another time and another place, this is supposed to be about Decade. I was just trying to explain (since someone asked), what I didn't like about Den-O. Everyone has their favorite series and their less favorite...personally, I love Hibiki, but I can understand why some people couldn't get into it since it is so different than other series. That, along with the change in tone about half way through it, could put people off. I'm kind of hoping the budget thriftiness people have talked about (looking at Kivarra) is because Hibiki can't use people in costumes for monsters and needs a lot of special effects.

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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by KickHopper » Mon May 11, 2009 6:13 pm

Iaatix wrote:
Dengar wrote:Yes, quite.

I really don't understand what's up with the Den-O hate. Especially given that the haters just can't seem to find proper explanations for their hate other than being uninformed.
Ok, since you asked, I'll tell you my reasons, which I suspect are your reasons for liking it.
1) I hate, hate, HATE the slapstick nature of it. I don't want a lot of comedy in my kamen rider, I want a serious darkness and/or weirdness.
2) The "taros" costumes are especially cheap looking, although that may be because you see them more than any other costumes.
3) I seriously didn't find any understandable plot. I never understood the boat on the lake thing and what exactly happened there.
4) There was nothing really scary about the bad guys, they didn't seem to even have a real reason for what they were doing. Orphanochs, Worms, Fanguire, etc. seemed to be a threat...nothing threatening by the Imagin.
I could keep going, but those are the most obvious reasons I dislike it.
kaemmerite wrote: Hibiki and Faiz were actually fairly popular. Kabuto, not so much.
I suspect that is because Kabuto was almost a little too much like a repeat of Faiz. The characters and plot were very similar.
You find the mindless fodder of Worm more threatening than Imagin? Imagin, who can become intangible sand, who can travel to the past and completely destroy your life before it happens? That's less threatening? Really?
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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by Warrior of Zarona » Mon May 11, 2009 9:03 pm

So you don't like Den-O not because it was bad but because you lack comprehension?

Nothing we can do to help you with that, unfortunately. Den-O wasn't as confusing as you make it sound.

Basic gist of plot:

SpoilerShow
The junction point determines two futures, one with Kai, the other with Hana. Hana happens to be the key to that Junction Point, and she is Sakurai and Airi's daughter. When both Sakurai and Airi found out about the plan to murder their child, in order to protect her, Sakurai uses the Zeronos cards to erase his existence from everyone's mind, specifically Airi's, even more importantly, Kai's, and of utmost priority, for Ryoutarou to forget about the baby. This ensures that the couple never met, never fall in love, and never have a child. The pivotal scene is at the lake, where Kai is about to destroy the future, and Sakurai uses the card here to ensure his removal from everyone's memories.

This is the important fact. Singular points were significant in that, when they fix a time distortion by destroying the Imagin causing it, a singular point's memories would reconstruct time back to normal. Ryoutarou was somewhat affected by the Zeronos card - he remembers Sakurai, but not the baby - this was the key to ensure that, when the time distortion is returned to normal, the baby will have not. However, their child Hana, like Ryoutarou, is also a singular point, and despite never being born, she still existed. They say the reason Hana reverted to a younger age is because Airi and Sakurai fall in love at a later time.

I already mentioned that Imagin were traveling in the past to hunt down the older Sakurai. Some Imagin follow this mission while others go through the motion and forget about Sakurai all together. However, older Sakurai was nothing but a decoy to lure them away from the real target - Airi, or more specifically, Hana. The reason Kai's future won't come true is because Hana, the singular point of the original future, was still alive, and this caused a conflict. The two opposing singular points couldn't exist at the same time.

Remember that Hana's future was destroyed. I believe this happened when Kai was attempting to change/destroy the Junction Point, leaving the future up in the air. The whole plot of Den-O was protecting this Junction Point until they were rid of the threat, returning Hana's future back. (Or perhaps, in hindsight, preventing Kai's future from coming true.)
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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by Dengar » Tue May 12, 2009 3:27 am

Most of what you said had been countered already, but the gist of it, the only valid point you have is the slapstick-ness. Which in actuality grew on a lot of people. Even me who avoids Sentai for its light-heartedness managed to enjoy Den-O a lot.

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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by gh0stwrit3r » Tue May 12, 2009 6:31 am

^ where were you guys when someone was ranting about this in the Den-O thread? xD

Seriously though, Den-O, despite its wimpy main protagonist, has the most awesomely dynamic characters I've ever seen in a KR series. If you do find it similar with sentai, then you're probably right. Den-O had, in my mind, the best use of form-changing all through-out the series. And Momo, as lead KR, frickin' pwns. The way he brandishes that sword, it's what made me get into KR again after all those years watching anime. And Ryoutarou's actor, portraying 5 characters at the same time, that's talent right there. And Momo's suit, is like, the 2nd hardest thing to draw, next to KR Blade's Ace form. Sure, it had comedy that was sometimes hard to comprehend, but the action? It was alot more than just double.

And on a minor note, Hibiki was awesome too, in a light-hearted kind of way. It's quite sad that the ending deviated from what was originally intended though. (You can't become a rideroni unless you're truly up for it)
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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by ExodusSaint » Tue May 12, 2009 8:11 am

Haha now THIS WAS A GOOD ARC. Lotsa good action and KAZAAM!... Loved the form changing battle and I never knew Agito had different forms that looked kickass =). ALso the movie tempts me even moar!

Just another quick theory.
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When Wataru said me and my allies will try keep this world alive or something similar from episode 1 maybe he was refering to the ORGINAL HENSEI RIDERS!!!111
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TAKEN IN FALLOUT 3 (PC) USING THE KAMEN RIDER MOD, So uh no need for pm's yeah? :)

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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by TG23 » Tue May 12, 2009 12:32 pm

I think the reason Hibiki is last is because that's where the story will start to dive deeper and they finally explain why Kamen Rider Todoroki attacked them in Blades world. You can assume that maybe it was Kaito summoning Todoroki but its never clarified.

I think Den-O's popularity has much to do with the acting. You know those are just suit actors or voice overs. But they did such a great job at it you eventually forget its not really 4 different people doing the taros but 1 or 2 doing them when all 4 taros inhabit 1 body. They really did a great job making that believable even if it sounded silly at first. Those 4 voice actors did a great job and their respected suit actors as well. That's why they won the award for best synergy.
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Re: Decade 15 Released

Post by Iaatix » Tue May 12, 2009 4:56 pm

Let me take a moment to apologize to everyone for taking this thread on a detour through the merits of Den-O. I did not intend to do that. Sometimes I get carried away since I have as strong a dislike for it as other people seem to love it...we'll just have to agree to disagree on it. However this is not the time or place for that.

I still feel this was one of the weakest Decade arcs, it didn't do much other than set up the movie, but I've said about all I can on that too. I even thought it was even fairly weak for a Den-O episode.
gh0stwrit3r wrote: And Ryoutarou's actor, portraying 5 characters at the same time, that's talent right there.
I completely agree. The first 10 episodes of Den-O I thought he was a terrible actor, but later on as he added on more personalities, and after I've seen him in a few other things, I now realize he is a very good actor, it was just the role I disliked. For me, his acting was the one positive things about the series. (there, I said something nice about it)
gh0stwrit3r wrote: And on a minor note, Hibiki was awesome too, in a light-hearted kind of way. It's quite sad that the ending deviated from what was originally intended though.
I agree there, too. I'll save my Hibiki thoughts for when they get there, but I was really sad how they ended things with Asumu and the Zeronos-to-be.

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