KR Wizard 41 released

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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by Glutinus » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:07 pm

Leonsagara wrote:I really liked the Haruto/Nitou team up against Silphi and their decision to use Wind against Wind. How did WW find out that Kizaki was looking into him so fast? Spells to protect his identity? Anyway, now WW's motives are finally becoming clear, although it was a bit obvious he wasn't entirely an ally from his mysterious way of acting.
Well, this is typically the kind of stuff I wanted to say about this episode. Plus the fact that I did not comment episode 40 yet, and everything was said about Mage outfit. Which is very... minimalist.

Mage fight was not that impressive, but I guess Mayu is still inexperienced in fighting, and that we won't get time (less than 10 episodes) to see her growing. I thought they would give her another keyword than Now.

Wow they needed a Buffa-6-roll to show how powerful the White Mage is !

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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by Kamen Rider Unknown » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:47 pm

Leonsagara wrote:How did WW find out that Kizaki was looking into him so fast? Spells to protect his identity?
Here's my ideal on that:
SpoilerShow
He had one of his "familiars" spying on him.

Glutinus wrote: Wow they needed a Buffa-6-roll to show how powerful the White Mage is !
I think they are just saying that by Beast, The Wizard being a "arch-type" wizard. He's not as strong as a regular wizard. Which now makes sense to me because The White Wizard did say he doesn't need him. Beast doesn't even have "regular magic rings" like Haruto, Mayu, and The White Wizard. Noticed also how he only has one familiar.

Now it's making even more sense to me because Kosuke was never a "Gate" to begin with. His powers were forced upon him versus being unlocked by fighting off the Phantom within him.

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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by dancercotillion » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:07 pm

Fueki probably doesn't need Beast for his ritual because A) he would have had no way to know Beast would appear, and B) Beast's power source is not the same. Doesn't mean he's weaker, but there's a clear issue of Khimaira requiring sustenance from outside while Dragon seems to make its own magic, and this is why Fueki does not need him.
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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by qedins » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:42 am

I'm curious about Mayu's phantom. Will it ever be shown, or better yet,
can Mayu use her own unique spells from it?

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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by Dengar » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:31 am

I think White Wizard's use of the word "archetype" refers to that which the modern magician is based on, but is different from.

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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by Kamen Rider Unknown » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:45 am

dancercotillion wrote:Fueki probably doesn't need Beast for his ritual because A) he would have had no way to know Beast would appear, and B) Beast's power source is not the same. Doesn't mean he's weaker, but there's a clear issue of Khimaira requiring sustenance from outside while Dragon seems to make its own magic, and this is why Fueki does not need him.
O.K.... A) By The White Wizard "Kidnapping" Yuzuru, this shows us that he's not looking for 'volunteers' for his plans. He means to carry them out by any means necessary. B) I love Beast, The Wizard. But by him needing to "Eat" Phantoms in order to survive. Shows us that he is weaker then the others. The other wizards don't need to consume ghouls and phantoms in order to live. So a wizard need only to trap him, take his 'Beast Driver' away, and then watch him die. :( - Recall the situation when the old man stole it.

If you was Kamen Rider Wizard and I was Beast, The Wizard. You know that I need Phantoms and at least some Ghouls in order to survive. You also know that I do not have "Spell Rings" like you, nor do I have the amount of "Transformations" like you. You having basically a total of 10 (your four regular changes, your four dragon changes, all-dragon mode and infinity - that's not even including your dragon timer) Versus my initial change and beast hyper mode.

Now knowing all of that, in the back of your mind somewhere, you wouldn't think that you are waaay stronger then me and that maybe I'm a little bit weaker then you?
Dengar wrote:I think White Wizard's use of the word "archetype" refers to that which the modern magician is based on, but is different from.
Dengar could you elaborate more on this, I'm not really understanding what you mean by this. :?:

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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by stalydan » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:09 pm

Kamen Rider Unknown wrote: O.K.... A) By The White Wizard "Kidnapping" Yuzuru, this shows us that he's not looking for 'volunteers' for his plans. He means to carry them out by any means necessary. B) I love Beast, The Wizard. But by him needing to "Eat" Phantoms in order to survive. Shows us that he is weaker then the others. The other wizards don't need to consume ghouls and phantoms in order to live. So a wizard need only to trap him, take his 'Beast Driver' away, and then watch him die. :( - Recall the situation when the old man stole it.

If you was Kamen Rider Wizard and I was Beast, The Wizard. You know that I need Phantoms and at least some Ghouls in order to survive. You also know that I do not have "Spell Rings" like you, nor do I have the amount of "Transformations" like you. You having basically a total of 10 (your four regular changes, your four dragon changes, all-dragon mode and infinity - that's not even including your dragon timer) Versus my initial change and beast hyper mode.

Now knowing all of that, in the back of your mind somewhere, you wouldn't think that you are waaay stronger then me and that maybe I'm a little bit weaker then you?

Dengar could you elaborate more on this, I'm not really understanding what you mean by this. :?:
For the archetype thing, I don't really think it's been explained yet but to clear up both points, I think I can make a guess and also say why Beast isn't weaker than Wizard or the other mages, just different.

Like you said, Khimaira requires Beast to devour the magical essence of other Phantoms to survive. When you think about it, it's kind of simple really why this is needed; Kousuke isn't a Gate, he was an ordinary human being, therefore he can't produce his own magical energy which Phantoms would need to live.

Perhaps "Archetype" refers to a kind of mage who has a Phantom placed into them rather than born in them. This is why WW doesn't need Beast because he can't produce his own magical essence, only absorb it. It doesn't mean that Beast is any weaker though. His mantles are definitely on par with Haruto's Dragon styles.
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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by TNT » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:15 pm

I really liked Beast's fight with WW. Especially since WW didn't even really overpower him. Note how much of a better fighter (making the most of his flute to sweep Nitou :P ) he is even without resorting to magic.

I wonder if this sets him up as being Nitou's enemy to defeat....

That he wasn't interested in Beast was clear from the moment they first met. His only words to Nitou when he first met him (back in the episode where Haruto received the dragotimer) were along the lines of: "Ah primordial mage, Khimaira will eat your soul."
It just made me curious about how he knew about Khimaira. :?


Looking forward to the next ep. ^_^

I was appalled by the wind Phantom's looks. Well at least he had the smarts to fly off and use his hostage. :P

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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by Kamen Rider Unknown » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:20 pm

stalydan wrote:For the archetype thing, I don't really think it's been explained yet but to clear up both points, I think I can make a guess and also say why Beast isn't weaker than Wizard or the other mages, just different.

Like you said, Khimaira requires Beast to devour the magical essence of other Phantoms to survive. When you think about it, it's kind of simple really why this is needed; Kousuke isn't a Gate, he was an ordinary human being, therefore he can't produce his own magical energy which Phantoms would need to live.
I've covered that already in a previous post and you've just reconfirmed my point :D No Phantoms equals R.I.P. Kousuke, No Phantoms for the other Wizards means, let's go catch a movie and grab some sugar donuts. :)
Perhaps "Archetype" refers to a kind of mage who has a Phantom placed into them rather than born in them. This is why WW doesn't need Beast because he can't produce his own magical essence, only absorb it. It doesn't mean that Beast is any weaker though. His mantles are definitely on par with Haruto's Dragon styles.
Could be, very interesting point you've just made. Image If he can not produce his own magical essence, then yes he is weaker then the rest of them. As I stated above already, No Phantoms equals no magical essence, no magical essence combined with Chimera eating-up what little he does have. Would equal R.I.P. Kousuke. :cry: He needs Phantoms in order to regain his strength, the others do not.

Now by default that makes him weaker then the other wizards, because of that. I love his mantels also but they are not on par with Haruto's Dragon Styles. His mantels are basically equal to Haruto's different 'Styles'. Beast-Hyper Mode is equal to Haruto's different Dragon Styles. But once Haruto jump to 'Infinity Style', what do Beast have that is equal to that?

I'm just pointing out that he is not as strong as a Wizard who was born a Gate.

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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by dancercotillion » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:55 pm

Well, we only have Khimaira's word to go by here. He can't act on his own or take over if Nitou falls to despair. What better way to motivate the only guy he can interact with than by saying "I will kill you if you don't feed me."

Dictionary.com defines archetype as "the original pattern or model from which all things of the same kind are copied or on which they are based; a model or first form; prototype." This is probably supposed to mean the original magicians from the time of the Beast Driver were not Gates who had overcome despair and unlocked their own power, they were men who formed contracts with a Phantom. Only later would they discover people like Haruto, and then eventually contracting with demons from outside fell out of favour. It wouldn't be necessarily "weaker" so much as "more dangerous", assuming Khimaira really will kill Nitou if he's not fed enough.
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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by KR_FIA » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:49 am

Hey, look. It's a second episode where they show to kids that being a Kamen Rider is a risky job, and you should think deep about it.

So there are 8 or 9 more episodes to go. It might be just me, but a lot didn't seem to be happening in this series.

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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by Kamen Rider Unknown » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:32 am

dancercotillion wrote:Well, we only have Khimaira's word to go by here. He can't act on his own or take over if Nitou falls to despair. What better way to motivate the only guy he can interact with than by saying "I will kill you if you don't feed me."
But how can Kousuke fall into despair when he isn't a 'Gate' and he already has a Phantom within him? Chimera did mean that he'll 'Eat' Kousuke's soul if he did not feed him manna. Go and re-watch episode #29.
Dictionary.com defines archetype as "the original pattern or model from which all things of the same kind are copied or on which they are based; a model or first form; prototype." This is probably supposed to mean the original magicians from the time of the Beast Driver were not Gates who had overcome despair and unlocked their own power, they were men who formed contracts with a Phantom. Only later would they discover people like Haruto, and then eventually contracting with demons from outside fell out of favour. It wouldn't be necessarily "weaker" so much as "more dangerous", assuming Khimaira really will kill Nitou if he's not fed enough.
Another interesting point of view and one that makes a lot of sense. :D And I just can't agree, if you have to constantly 'feed' on manna in order to simply live. Where as I don't, then that does make it dangerous for you. As well as makes you weaker then me. Because I don't have to 'feed' on manna in order to live. If I run low on manna, some much needed rest is all I need to replenish it. But if you run low on manna, you need some ghouls and preferably a phantom to replenish yours. I wont be in any immediate danger if I don't hurry-up and get some rest. You on the other hand would be in grave danger if you don't hurry-up and eat a Phantom or at least a ghoul. That's how the story-line been playing out since Beast, The Wizard introduction to the series.

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Re: KR Wizard 41 released

Post by Dengar » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:26 pm

Kamen Rider Unknown wrote:Dengar could you elaborate more on this, I'm not really understanding what you mean by this. :?:
I pretty much mean what I said. Dancercotillion took the dictionary meaning for the word, which is pretty much what I mean. It makes Beast (or the kind of wizard that Beast is, supposing there might have been more of him once), the "original", and modern wizards are based on him.

This doesn't necessarily make the archetype stronger or weaker. But generally, things based on an archetype tend to have individual improvements.

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