KR Wizard 44 released

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by dancercotillion » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:22 pm

I doubt Wiseman is an illusion. Medusa would see through it instantly; she detects Gates and mages are Gates. So he could fool any other Phantom but her. And as for your other questions, I would say Wiseman knows about the Philosopher's Stone because he has one; he drained away Wizard's magic power because it's just an ability some Phantoms have; he could create an illusion because that could just be one of his powers as a Phantom; etc. You're grasping at straws because you want it to be true. I feel as if people latch onto a theory like this because of how deadly dull the show is otherwise. "There has to be a mindfuck coming," the conspiracy theorists cry, "or else I've wasted a whole year watching this show!" (It's not a horrible Rider series, but it is the weakest in a long time.)

And it pretty much would take the show saying "Fueki and Wiseman are the same person" for me to go "ah! Fueki and Wiseman are the same person, I see!", yes.
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@"locuas"

Post by Enter the Meteor » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:30 pm

locuas wrote: okay:
1)if wiseman is white mage, why was white mage's familiar watching over wiseman when wiseman created the blue stone? and why did it carefully back away, like it was trying not to be seen, and went directly for help? and why did koyomi need to go pick it up when white mage had already given them a stone before?(btw, my explanation as to why cerberus went for koyomi is that he remembers koyomi even tough koyomi does not remember it). and why was cerberus watching over wiseman a few episodes ago?
Black Cerberus belongs to Wiseman as well. I bet he told to back away quietly (as it would disturb his master). Black Cerberus brought Koyomi to the forest because it wanted her to find the Water Dragon Magic Stone.
2) why did wiseman transform into white mage after koyomi got the blue stone, and, a few hours later(at best) he changed again into wiseman to stop haruto from going to the cave?
It took a ton of mana for Wiseman to expel the Water Dragon Magic Stone from his being, the White Wizard is probably his easier form. For you second point, why would he let Haurto into his own lair?
3) why would he sometimes appear as wiseman and others as white mage? and i don't mean appear as wiseman only in front of the phantoms, he appear in at least two ocassions in which it would made more sense to appear as white mage.
May I ask you to give me the places where it would be more appropriate?
4)when gremlin told them where he was, why did he appear as white mage instead of wiseman? especially if kizaki was there. granted, he already had kidnapped a kid, but he could still give an explanation for his actions. but not for and unconscious and injured Kizaki. if he had appear as wiseman, he could have fooled everyone in that he did not attack kizaki.
While that last part is true; why would he? I think he will revel he is Wiseman right before he kills Yuzuru, which will drive Kousuke to despair and make him not a part of The White Wizard's plan anymore.
5) white mage's surprise to his first meeting with nitou. wiseman had already commented about what nitou's magic was, but white mage was surpised to see nitou's magic.
He was surprised because he saw Beast helping him. When he heard about him, he was below the bridge. He also heard Beast call Haurto his "Rival", whcih would be the opposite of what Beast thinks it means.

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by Kamen Rider Unknown » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:24 pm

dancercotillion wrote:I doubt Wiseman is an illusion. Medusa would see through it instantly; she detects Gates and mages are Gates. So he could fool any other Phantom but her.
How do know Medusa would see right through it? Where was it shown that she could sense magic? If that was the case she would had told her sister, "I see your a Mage now" that didn't happen now did it? Mages are Gates that fought-off their inner Phantoms. It's huge difference.
And as for your other questions, I would say Wiseman knows about the Philosopher's Stone because he has one; he drained away Wizard's magic power because it's just an ability some Phantoms have; he could create an illusion because that could just be one of his powers as a Phantom; etc.
How would Wiseman know about the Philosopher's Stone in the first place? The only other Phantom that showed that it could take "manna" was Medusa and in order for her to that she must use her tentacles to do it. Whereas Wiseman just took Infinity's from him. Who's grasping at straws now? :lol: Your only "assuming" that creating illusions is one of Wiseman powers.
You're grasping at straws because you want it to be true. I feel as if people latch onto a theory like this because of how deadly dull the show is otherwise. "There has to be a mindfuck coming," the conspiracy theorists cry, "or else I've wasted a whole year watching this show!" (It's not a horrible Rider series, but it is the weakest in a long time.) And it pretty much would take the show saying "Fueki and Wiseman are the same person" for me to go "ah! Fueki and Wiseman are the same person, I see!", yes.
I'm not grasping at straws, it's called using logic and common-sense to determine something. Try it sometime, instead of having a one track mind closed to any other possibility. :D Now if they are not the same person oh well, I was wrong and that's that. Besides the bad writing, weak secondary characters, and that awful Mage costume. I enjoyed this show very much. And yes I know, you probably was the only kid at school. Who actually believed Superman and Clark Kent were two totally different people. :D

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by locuas » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:21 pm

Kamen Rider Unknown wrote: How do know Medusa would see right through it? Where was it shown that she could sense magic? If that was the case she would had told her sister, "I see your a Mage now" that didn't happen now did it? Mages are Gates that fought-off their inner Phantoms. It's huge difference.
she can sense magic since episode 1. in fact, it is because they have magic that gates are gates.

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by dancercotillion » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:34 pm

Kamen Rider Unknown wrote:Put me on your ignore list, I'm not worth responding to!
Will do, champ.
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Re: @"locuas"

Post by locuas » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:51 pm

Enter the Meteor wrote:
It took a ton of mana for Wiseman to expel the Water Dragon Magic Stone from his being, the White Wizard is probably his easier form. For you second point, why would he let Haurto into his own lair?
first of all, i would think the rider form would be harder to maintain, since it requires for him to create the suit using his magic.
i meant that he did it with the wiseman form and not the white mage form. but you raise another question, if he did not want haruto to find his lair, why did he let koyomi find it?

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Forms and Koyomi.

Post by Enter the Meteor » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:56 pm

locuas wrote:
Enter the Meteor wrote:
It took a ton of mana for Wiseman to expel the Water Dragon Magic Stone from his being, the White Wizard is probably his easier form. For you second point, why would he let Haurto into his own lair?
first of all, i would think the rider form would be harder to maintain, since it requires for him to create the suit using his magic.
i meant that he did it with the wiseman form and not the white mage form. but you raise another question, if he did not want haruto to find his lair, why did he let koyomi find it?
We may never know about which form is the hardest to maintain.

Now, he lead Koyomi there because he wanted her to get the Water Dragon Magic Stone. If you look back, Koyomi was so focused on Black Cerberus that she did not know where she was. She even went with Haurto and they could not find it.

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by locuas » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:29 pm

she did remember, it was wiseman's magic the thing that made it impossible for them to find the lair.
also, why did he need koyomi to take it? why couldn't he send his white garuda like last time?

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by Kamen Rider Unknown » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:00 pm

locuas wrote:
Kamen Rider Unknown wrote: How do know Medusa would see right through it? Where was it shown that she could sense magic? If that was the case she would had told her sister, "I see your a Mage now" that didn't happen now did it? Mages are Gates that fought-off their inner Phantoms. It's huge difference.
she can sense magic since episode 1. in fact, it is because they have magic that gates are gates.
When did she sense magic in episode one? And as you just quoted me, "If that was the case she would had told her sister, "I see your a Mage now" that didn't happen now did it?" If she could sense "magic" then why didn't she sense it in her sister?
dancercotillion wrote:I don't know what I'm talking about "Kamen Rider Unknown" when I don't take my Medication I loose my mind at times. But your theory does sound like it's right on the money. I'm sorry for bothering you with my nonsense and faking quotes from you. :(
It's o.k. just remember to take your medication next time. We don't want you flipping out on us o.k. :wink:

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by locuas » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:03 pm

Kamen Rider Unknown wrote: When did she sense magic in episode one? And as you just quoted me, "If that was the case she would had told her sister, "I see your a Mage now" that didn't happen now did it?" If she could sense "magic" then why didn't she sense it in her sister?
i meant, because she can sense magic, she can tell who is a gate. and she may not expect her to actually become a rider. she only knew, she was able to surpress her phantom, nnot to dominate it like haruto did.

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by Kamen Rider Unknown » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:45 pm

locuas wrote:why did he need koyomi to take it? why couldn't he send his white garuda like last time?
Remember, he sent the familiar to get Haruto. Haruto was chasing a phantom or a gate (I can't recall) at the time. Which was why he sent Koyomi to follow the familiar.
locuas wrote:i meant, because she can sense magic, she can tell who is a gate. and she may not expect her to actually become a rider. she only knew, she was able to surpress her phantom, nnot to dominate it like haruto did.
No, she can sense the Phantom within people. If she could sense magic then she should've sensed Kosuke the moment he stepped into town. They all thought he was a Gate. Now if she could sense magic then why didn't she tell the roach phantom that he was a wizard? He was trying to see what gave him strength so he could drive him into despair. He was just as shocked as everyone else, once he turned into Beast, The Wizard.

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by locuas » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:58 pm

Kamen Rider Unknown wrote:
locuas wrote:why did he need koyomi to take it? why couldn't he send his white garuda like last time?
Remember, he sent the familiar to get Haruto. Haruto was chasing a phantom or a gate (I can't recall) at the time. Which was why he sent Koyomi to follow the familiar.
locuas wrote:i meant, because she can sense magic, she can tell who is a gate. and she may not expect her to actually become a rider. she only knew, she was able to surpress her phantom, nnot to dominate it like haruto did.
No, she can sense the Phantom within people. If she could sense magic then she should've sensed Kosuke the moment he stepped into town. They all thought he was a Gate. Now if she could sense magic then why didn't she tell the roach phantom that he was a wizard? He was trying to see what gave him strength so he could drive him into despair. He was just as shocked as everyone else, once he turned into Beast, The Wizard.
she can sense magic, but she can't tell if they are gates, riders or phantoms. she never saw nitou before, so he could not be a phantom, and she did not expect for another rider. and she is not omnisient. if she was, she would be able to tell how many gates there are in the city.

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by FaeQueenCory » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:27 am

LoL does no one read Bleach or Claymore? the whole concept of the Phantom is SUPER Japanese: the same Japanese Shinto-Buddhist concepts are where Kubo draws the inspiration of Hollows, though it's more from the Buddhist side of that fusion.
Should I be right in my theory of the machinations of the BigBad... Then it's pretty simple as to why Wiseman and White Wizard and Fueki are the same person.
As to the mechanics, I'd imagine that it's very similar to a Vizard from Bleach or an Awakened Being from Claymore: In that the "monster form" that is brought forth from the internal will of the individual (ie the Phantom) requires a great deal of energy to maintain.

Either that or it's the MUCH more simple: I'm wearing my internal phantom because you phantoms wouldn't trust a Mage.

I'm actually leaning on that one.... because this is Kamen Rider Wizard... where the MotW just walks away... I'm not expecting more than that.

BUT most importantly.... am I the only one who remembers when Wiseman was in his human form in the bed in the sewers? And Cerberus clearly has been following Wiseman.... as if it were his familiar...

BUT we all must remember something:
IT'S JUST A SHOW AND WE ARE JUST SPECULATING.

One of us will be right.
And I feel confident in my conjectures. So we will see who is vindicated sometime within the next 2-3 episodes... I mean, we're down to the last 4-5.

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by locuas » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:22 am

FaeQueenCory wrote:LoL does no one read Bleach or Claymore? the whole concept of the Phantom is SUPER Japanese: the same Japanese Shinto-Buddhist concepts are where Kubo draws the inspiration of Hollows, though it's more from the Buddhist side of that fusion.
Should I be right in my theory of the machinations of the BigBad... Then it's pretty simple as to why Wiseman and White Wizard and Fueki are the same person.
As to the mechanics, I'd imagine that it's very similar to a Vizard from Bleach or an Awakened Being from Claymore: In that the "monster form" that is brought forth from the internal will of the individual (ie the Phantom) requires a great deal of energy to maintain.

Either that or it's the MUCH more simple: I'm wearing my internal phantom because you phantoms wouldn't trust a Mage.

I'm actually leaning on that one.... because this is Kamen Rider Wizard... where the MotW just walks away... I'm not expecting more than that.

BUT most importantly.... am I the only one who remembers when Wiseman was in his human form in the bed in the sewers? And Cerberus clearly has been following Wiseman.... as if it were his familiar...

BUT we all must remember something:
IT'S JUST A SHOW AND WE ARE JUST SPECULATING.

One of us will be right.
And I feel confident in my conjectures. So we will see who is vindicated sometime within the next 2-3 episodes... I mean, we're down to the last 4-5.
Yes i read bleach, and i don't see that connection. if you said Buffy, i could see it, since the way the vampires act in that series is similar: you die and a demon takes possesion of your body.
but hollows are corrupted versions of yourself, which are not the same thing as phantom, who are more like spirits trying to take control of your body.

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Re: KR Wizard 44 released

Post by Kamen Rider Unknown » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:43 pm

locuas wrote: she can sense magic, but she can't tell if they are gates, riders or phantoms. she never saw nitou before, so he could not be a phantom, and she did not expect for another rider. and she is not omnisient. if she was, she would be able to tell how many gates there are in the city.
She can only sense the phantoms within people. If she could sense "magic" then why didn't she "sense" Sora, when he was literally like 30 feet from them listening to their conversation?
FaeQueenCory wrote:Either that or it's the MUCH more simple: I'm wearing my internal phantom because you phantoms wouldn't trust a Mage.
Yes, if he's not using magic to create that Phantom Form. Then he's bringing out his internal phantom form to interact with the other phantoms.
BUT most importantly.... am I the only one who remembers when Wiseman was in his human form in the bed in the sewers? And Cerberus clearly has been following Wiseman.... as if it were his familiar...
No your not, I remember that also. But try to point that out and you'd only hear that Cerberus was spying on Wiseman.
BUT we all must remember something:
IT'S JUST A SHOW AND WE ARE JUST SPECULATING.
And that's all we're doing, but as you can see some people are incapable of understanding what "Speculating" means.
One of us will be right.
And I feel confident in my conjectures. So we will see who is vindicated sometime within the next 2-3 episodes... I mean, we're down to the last 4-5.
I also feel confident, let me also remind everyone that we have yet to see Wiseman human form. Other then a silhouette of him...I wonder why?

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Last edited by Kamen Rider Unknown on Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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