Fixing Ninninger

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by takenoko » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:41 pm

Totally agree with all of that Phurricane. Especially that stuff about Yakumo. Sometimes the second guy gets a way more interesting back story and personality than the main guy, since it's not his burden to carry the main plot forward. We see that happen all the time with Riders. And Yakumo's backstory is fantastic on paper. But somehow, it just comes off as boring to watch. He should have some cool stories about training with Tsubasa and stuff or being a Harry Potter knockoff, but instead all I think of is that he's the guy who says the word "easy" in English. What terrible travesty for writing that is.

Also, let's look at Yakumo's character episodes more closely. They're sort of the same plot for each one. Yakumo falls in love with a lawnmower Youkai, a kunoichi falls in love with Yakumo, a witch girl has a crush on Yakumo. In a more clever writer, you'd think this was a theme or a repeated joke that built on itself. But I get the sense that this was just the writer having no idea for what to do with the character, so this is the plot archetype that he falls back on.

Speaking of stuff that repeats, they reused Nekomata like 3-4 times. Although the last one was actually pretty funny, so I'll give them that. And the Last Ninja stuff was the worst, because they were just goofy. A sports rally, baseball, courage test, board game, a progress report, the Karuta cards. And like Phurricane said, a lot of them were just clip shows.

And back to the family stuff, we have three generations of characters. I should really care about the dad and grandpa, but they're mostly joke characters when they are on screen. Even with Fuuka, who sort of only exists to be a foil character, is only really about being a little sister to her Oniichan. We don't see that affection from Takaharu and Fuuka to their dad and granddad, which is too bad, since that also means we don't really care when Grandpa dies, a major character. They tell us they're sad and we see them sorta cry, but then hologram granddad shows up and makes a silly big face and the tone is silly again. There's no genuine feelings in this show, or at least, not enough of them.

Just scrap the main story and give Kikyou and Kasumi their own side story.

/me says more things about Ninnin for Verus

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Mxylv » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:03 am

Kuchiri wrote:This is one of those seasons where I'm sitting here HOPING that the PR version actually does something great with it.
I found the synopsis so far; not thrilled with what it looks like, but I guess it's a bit early to make assumptions: http://tokusatsunetwork.com/2016/01/pow ... announced/
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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Kuchiri » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:09 am

The one good thing to note about that plot for Ninja Steel is that it feels like a better explanation for most of the fight scenes and monsters in Ninninger. If Saban can pull it off right, I think this might be the second time that the PR season was much much better than a Sentai.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Jetman » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:39 am

Mxylv wrote:
Kuchiri wrote:This is one of those seasons where I'm sitting here HOPING that the PR version actually does something great with it.
I found the synopsis so far; not thrilled with what it looks like, but I guess it's a bit early to make assumptions: http://tokusatsunetwork.com/2016/01/pow ... announced/

I'm not gonna mince words, that sounds really stupid. But on the other hand, execution matters more than concept so we'll see. My hope that Ninja Steel would be an improvement over Ninninger just got a bit lower though.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by eijiman » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:48 am

Wow, PR seems way better than Ninninger.

Now on what i think went wrong:

I said it before, the team seems awfully weak, all they do is wait for Takaharu to do all the work. when i saw this show i was hoping that they would somehow fight another squad that taught them that the last ninja competition was actually making them weaker since that is making them selfish, in my mind it should goes like this:

"Ninningers vs Shinkengers(ninja vs samurai), Gokaiger (vs pirates), or kakuranger/hurricanger"
they begin to fight, Takaharu and Kasumi hold their weight against the others, but sooner than later fuuka falls, like the patethic weakling she is, then Nagi, then Yakumo, then the rest of them gang on Takaharu and Kasumi, and easily beat them just by numbers. then the winning squad explains that they fell because they did not acted like a team, all they wanted was to be the "last ninja" so they are not really a team. so they relinquish the last ninja thing to beging fighting as one.

Maybe it was just my imagination, but to me the last ninja always seemed to be a selfish goal that kept the team appart, and in the end that was discarded, why not make it in a way that it could make it better.

Next, the Gabi could be a great thing for story, him being the first one, was actually something that could go amazingly well, he was like Takaharu a straightforward guy, the fight was a Strenght vs Strenght thing. so how could i have made it better? Takaharu defeats him, Takaharu is the strongest of the team. that is good, takaharu is the brawns of the bunch, no one elste gets even close to him on that aspect, but other generals sart poping out, that cant be beat with just sheer strenght, so the story focuses on the others, Takaharu is already advanced on his thing (Strenght), so he loses protagonism, since he is already developed enough at least power wise. and the others begin developing their own strenghts (Intelligence-Kasumi, Trickery-Cloud, Versatility-Nagi, ?-Fuuka).

Now lets get to Takaharu, Now hate me if you want to, but i like him. he just seems to be somewhat badly used, IMO he should be a somewhat carefree like he is, but still he should be somewhat serious, his actor does not seems to be good to be a carefree, fun loving idiot like takaharu is, the actor seems sometimes to be the most serious or shy of the cast, look at the photos and the guy seems the most serious or shy of them. So IMO takaharu should be a little bit more smart and serious and would be perfect. Also i think you pretty much hate him because he hags all the attention, everything seems to be focused on him, but if things were more fair, you would not notice him that much.

Troll Grandpa: really once in a while telling them something to test them and force them to take the right path seems fine. but all the time he kept doing that, he seemed more harmful to the team than helpful.

Kinji: he seemed weak, he is diferent from any other sixth, When GK attacked the goseigers, they went down like flies, they even had to negotiate with him to stop him, if Genta attacked the shinkengers, Takeru would have been the only one that could fight him. We saw what happened also with Burai, and many others. but hey a 6th does not have to be super strong to be good. in this case they used his weakness to give him a story, in fact he is the best character of the show, the problem to me is that he does not have enough protagonism, he is the only one that seems to have developed, he started as a somewhat carefree guy seeking for vengance, but right now, he seems to be serious and more toughtful than the others, he no longer pursues vengeance, it's weird but he seems more an adult right now.

On something else, I think that Bandai should cut them a little slack, I have tought that it was kinda stupid when you saw the dad fighting with a real looking sword against Takaharu obviously toy one. i dont know if the actors felt somehow silly when doing that. But i think they should stop doing the "let's make them toyish enough so the toys we sell are identical/easily made" I mean the Ride booker looks more real, the tyranno sword, and many others looks better. So how i would change it? say to Bandai, "fuck you, kids have imagination, we will make our weapons and robots more realistic, you sell them the closest you can do, they will complete it with their imagination." and have fantasy swords that you could see "man at arms" making. just imagine how cool would have been if Kinji's sword were like Uramasa.

Just to make it short: Less screen time for Taka, More to Kinji, less toyish weapons, a better mentor and more teamwork instead of last ninja pursuit.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by ViRGE » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:24 pm

Mxylv wrote:
Kuchiri wrote:This is one of those seasons where I'm sitting here HOPING that the PR version actually does something great with it.
I found the synopsis so far; not thrilled with what it looks like, but I guess it's a bit early to make assumptions: http://tokusatsunetwork.com/2016/01/pow ... announced/
Not to get too off topic here, but early Neo-Saban era summaries are rarely accurate. These come 8 months before the series goes in front of a camera, before the Sentai being adopted is even finished airing, and before Bandai has even settled on names for a lot of things. So everything is likely to change.

(PRDC's original summary talked about collecting what was obviously the guardian stones, IIRC).

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Greenstalker » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:07 pm

eijiman wrote:On something else, I think that Bandai should cut them a little slack, I have tought that it was kinda stupid when you saw the dad fighting with a real looking sword against Takaharu obviously toy one. i dont know if the actors felt somehow silly when doing that. But i think they should stop doing the "let's make them toyish enough so the toys we sell are identical/easily made" I mean the Ride booker looks more real, the tyranno sword, and many others looks better. So how i would change it? say to Bandai, "fuck you, kids have imagination, we will make our weapons and robots more realistic, you sell them the closest you can do, they will complete it with their imagination." and have fantasy swords that you could see "man at arms" making. just imagine how cool would have been if Kinji's sword were like Uramasa.
.
Part of the reason why weapons look more toyish is not only they need to sell toys but they want to avoid angry moms. Believe or not japanese tv's getting more and more pressure from house wives (working moms usually dont have time to check what their kids are watching or time to complain about it even if they find it disturbing). Slowly but steadily japanese tv production making changes based on that censorship demand which kinda kills the uniqueness of japanese shows bit by bit.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by midorininger » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:41 pm

1 thing, if the last 2 cameos were worth it. magiyellow and shurikenger werent really worth the time to be there.

but also when thinking my review of the series i hit on something. everyone gets a highlight episode but even with those, they did grow it just mention so&so got a little more screen time. only really Nagi and Kinji had any level of development everyone else was static.
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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Catastrophe » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:51 am

It might have something to do with being family though. The writers probably thought they wouldn't need any extra relationship development.

Which, like Take said is stupid because it happened in Magi and worked fantastically.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by takenoko » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:52 am

Yeah, but that's just laziness. It becomes that problem where they tell viewers things instead of showing them. Not everything needs to be experiential or visual, but it's TV. Act like a TV family already!

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Iccirrion » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:03 am

I was going to try and defend Ninninger here...I honestly enjoyed it...but then I realized that even if I did enjoy it, I think every other sentai series I've watched surpassed it in some way.
There was a lot of wasted potential is all I can think to say, there were so many times where I thought things were going to start to get epic but nothing happened.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Catastrophe » Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:12 pm

It's a very meh series. Even with ToQ, which I didn't find appealing for most of its run amped itself up towards the end.

Haven't felt that with this.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by mholden020 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:49 pm

This has been at the back of my mind for a few days: Could the series have been good, at all, with what was used?

-We (for the most part) dislike the characters. Takaharu's more irritating than a caffeinated toddler, and everything else about the character issues has been covered.

-The story, as Catastrophe said, was "meh" at best. There was a ton of build up to good things that were either told early or just never happened. The Last Ninja was the main point of the entire series, and (unless something happens in the last episode) nothing came of it. Kyuuemon being Gramps' pupil was probably supposed to be a big twist, but most everyone figured that out in the first few episodes. Gramps died way back in the day, but again, we figured that out. In both situations, there was no "WHUUUUUUT???", but instead a monotonous "Duh...". There were filler MOTW episodes in the 40s. Worst of all, there were no real twists like in previous series. Despite everything that was presented (Only one can be the Last Ninja, Kinji became a Youkai, the purple ninja lady, etc.), the story wound up being simply, "Here's a dude who's mad, you kids dress up and go play in the park for a bit. Kill the dude when you get bored with the monsters."

If the characters were replaced with characters with backstory, emotions, relationships, and personalities, we're still left with a "meh" story. Write a story that's interesting, and it gets delivered by hollow characters. For it to be fixed completely, both the characters and story would need major overhauls. If that happened, it might as well be a completely different series altogether. I don't know how many full series I've watched of anything by now, but when I got to the last episode of each, I felt reserved. Kind of like, "Don't watch it, then it will really be over." I got that sad ending feeling for each series before this, like when you reach the end of a good book. Ninninger? Not happening. I'm just content with the fact that we will have this series behind us before too long.
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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by takenoko » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:17 am

I don't know if I agree with the first part. I do like Kasumi, Nagi, and Kinji. Fuuka and Yakumo I'm neutral towards. I can overlook a meh story very easily if I'm watching characters I like do fun and interesting things.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by KemonoSoldierSunstar » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:12 am

...everyone's hatred for the show makes me feel ashamed to be one of the people that enjoys it. ._.;

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