Fixing Ninninger

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by berry889 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:24 pm

u know what, I just stop watching Ninninger since episode 13.... However still continue downloading (in case I got too bored and need something to kill off time) this is my last sentai to see and will stick with Kamen Rider
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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Go-On Macaroni » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:41 pm

One thing I'd like to mention here is that the show is also Head producer Naomi Takebe (Kiva, Go-Busters, OOO, Nin2ger, Gaim)'s fault too. She's likely the one who casted the show more over ~*Idol Factor~* than who would actually be good for the role, okay'd the cameos, and picked Shimoyama to write it laying the foundation of the show before him before it started; and y'know, between Go-bus and this, I really don't want her to work on a sentai again. It's clear she can't do a good job at it.
Phoenix512 wrote:The first final Gabi fight would have been really good if the other characters were the ones who defeated him but they just had to defer to the moron. The message itself was twisted to be about them waiting for him to come back instead of getting stronger when he's not there to save them.
I don't quite see how that was the message. He was meant as the rival to Takaharu so it made sense that Taka was the one who took him down, you wouldn't have say Yellow Flash take down Kaura or Green Sai take down Doctor Kemp. Red's are meant to have a rival and fight them in beautiful sunset duels and I'm prolly digressing because the staff couldn't treat it with as much respect as it deserved but, I still feel that's what it was going for.
mholden020 wrote:They managed to crush the character at the end of the series when she made a mistake and lost her confidence, something that was rammed home for two straight episodes.
If you mean the Mangetsu fight.. honestly, in hindsight, I don't feel bad for her. Villains should be like that, pushing the heroes to get stronger or just push harder; it's not Takaharu's fault the villains chose to be incompetent and made everything too easy for them.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by takenoko » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:52 pm

I'm probably in the minority in this, but I liked Toqger. Which is odd to say since I didn't strongly like Right, Tokacchi, or Mio, but they didn't piss me off either. It's not Kobayashi's best work, but at least she knows how to write characters and stories that you care about.

And I also really liked Kyouryuuger. The goofy fun camaraderie, the singing and dancing. That really felt like a Sentai to me.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Lunagel » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:05 pm

While it was airing I didn't really like Toqger but I gotta say, the Come Back movie actually made the series better for me as a whole. I didn't really enjoy seeing these adults act very childish the whole series, but with the movie, it showed they were actually quite mature when they *really* grew up, and seeing that made me feel like they were actually acting as their real age the whole time.

Wizard had a lot of fault, but the most was that it always stopped just short of its potential. In retrospect, I don't think Ninninger ever really had the potential because it was just bungled too badly. The casting of Red was wrong, the director was wrong, the direction they were taking the ninja theme was wrong. There was never really an ultimate goal either, it was just "Monster popped up, kill that" and trying to become the "Last Ninja", this vague and really unexplained title. The point with the shurikens was that you felt like they were inching closer to their goal, but they never really expanded on them and I never bothered counting how many there were (and it doesn't seem like there was really a point to counting them anyway).

Honestly, I'm most disappointed in Kasumi. She was an interesting, occasionally funny, really insightful character and the actress played her way better than pretty much anyone else on the show. She wasn't the standard girly-girl, and she wanted to further her education and become a scientist, how cool is that? But they barely expanded on her (or anyone else's) backstory and so she's left a slightly less flimsy paper cutout of a character. What a waste of a good idea.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Kogashi » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:05 pm

First off, cause I see this comes up a lot in talks bout current Super Sentais as well as future ones... I really do not like the idea of 'oh, it's a comedy one thus it won't be good'. I know I'm not sharing a popular opinion here but I hate Go-Busters. Granted, I did finish it which is more than I can say for Ninnin here, which I got bored of around episode 30 and haven't bothered catch up with, but I did actively care about the characters stories, I wanted to see, when I was watching it, where they went with it. Go-busters, just felt directionless, I always got the feeling that it didn't know what sort of story it wanted to tell. Ninnin knows the story it wants to tell, it's just not a great one, and Red's lack of acting chops did not help.

Kyooryuugers had so much energy to it, they knew what kind of story they wanted to tell, and while Daigo was a 'goof off' it came from experience rather than not caring. Though he was a plot focus, when the episode was for someone else he knew to not steal the spot light but to spread the spot light out. Yes he's the only one who got and upgrade and, for some reason, this drives people nuts. But why wouldn't the leader of a group, usually one who has earned the team's trust and shown his reliability, be the one trusted with more power?

I know this thread is bout Ninninger, and yea it's not a good show. But I disagree with anyone who says it's not a good show, because it's a comedy. It's genre wasn't the reason it wasn't well written, it's cause the writer wasn't sure on how to have a team that doesn't revolve around a central character type, and also failed to have a character type the viewers (us at least) want the show to revolve around.
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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by FirenOh » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:18 pm

I think the only reason I disliked Kyouryuu was due to how forced Daigo and Ami's romance was at the end, and how it somehow became a central plot element. Probably the worst Toku Romance I've ever seen, which is saying a lot since Wizard aired that same year.

But yeah, I hope Jyuohger/Zyuohger/whatever has more evenly distributed character focus/depth.
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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Jetman » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:36 pm

takenoko wrote:It's been frustrating, because instead of just being straight up bad, it sometimes shows a potential to be good, but then just sends you plummeting in disappointment.
THIS is what makes Ninninger so exasperating! IT DIDN'T NEED TO BE THIS WAY! I actually had high hopes for Ninninger when it started. I thought the concept, the designs, the music, the fights and the characters all seemed great. Sheesh, I almost wish it had just been bad. If it was just a bad show I could just say "this show sucks, I don't care". But I just kept hoping that it would FINALLY hit it's stride and start living up to it's potential, but it never did. Looking back, I can't help but notice how empty this show feels. Like, very little was actually accomplished. It just feels like it was spinning it's wheels and going nowhere most of the time.

It did have a few really good individual episodes and at least one Ninninger (Kinji) who I can't really complain about. And I really liked Kyuuemon up until they revealed that he wasn't scheming anything at all and was just another henchman of the badguy who kept his identity secret for no real reason, because Ninninger always needs to find a way to disappoint me :cry: . Gabi was cool too, even if also pretty one note. And all the Ninningers and supporting characters had their good points, but it just wasn't enough to make up for how hollow and un-engaging it all was overall.

Ninninger was just a huge letdown all around.
Last edited by Jetman on Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by ViRGE » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:13 pm

I'm not sure there's really much I can add that hasn't already been said. Takaharu was a major drag on the series, but he wasn't the only factor. Troll-Grandpa was generally unlikable (and not in the unconventional mentor way, but in a genuine jackass way) and the plot never got any real traction. The series as a whole just didn't work. Which will make the PR version very interesting to watch next year, to see if they can come up with a more interesting interpretation of the footage and monsters.
Lunagel wrote:Honestly, I'm most disappointed in Kasumi. She was an interesting, occasionally funny, really insightful character and the actress played her way better than pretty much anyone else on the show. She wasn't the standard girly-girl, and she wanted to further her education and become a scientist, how cool is that? But they barely expanded on her (or anyone else's) backstory and so she's left a slightly less flimsy paper cutout of a character. What a waste of a good idea.
The whole thing is not helped by the fact that she's essentially the only competent character out of a field of idiots. Kasumi is legitimately a good character and it's disappointing that she didn't get more of a focus (in a proper Sentai, letting her kill Ariake would have been a whole episode). But at the same time she wins by default, and that makes the whole situation a bit bittersweet.

Edit: And I may as well say I'm still disappointed that Kyuuemon turned out to be a male character, despite being acted and voiced by women. There would have been so much potential for a daughter of Kiboni to kill off her step-mother's son and face off against the grandson of Troll-Grandpa...
Last edited by ViRGE on Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by KRMonkey » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:14 pm

So many things went wrong with this show, but I think the casting of Takaharu was the worst. He's played by the worst Sentai actor I've seen so far. I assume they cast him because he's pretty and kind-of looks the part, but there's just nothing going on behind his eyes other than maybe, "I'd like a sandwich." A red hero who's poorly-acted is deadly to Sentai, since these shows typically fetishize the red hero and the expense of practically everything.

My suspicion is that the writers felt uninspired, and that saddens me, because there was probably some story potential in the origin of those freaky, random otomo-nin. Am I right in assuming that the toys are generally determined well before the writing process begins? It feels like the writing staff saw the toys and just sort of gave up. I'm suspect one of the directives was to make the show feel like Shinkenger, but the characters and villains in Shinkenger felt a great deal better-realized.

As an aside, it amazes me how rarely the Shuriken Sentai threw any shuriken.

Ninninger made me appreciate ToQger a great deal more; that show, at least, had interesting villains, and it ended on a strong narrative note. I'm an episode or two behind on Ninninger, but if I didn't already know we were almost at the end, I've never have guessed. Most toku series I've watched upped their game toward the end of the series, but this one feels pretty much the same.

I'm a bit worried now, because I didn't enjoy ToQger all that much, and if Zyuohger is another weak show... I'm just not sure I'm up for a third consecutive year of uninspiring, uninspired Sentai.

I don't think there was a single point of failure for Ninninger. A lot of the points Takenoko made resonate with me.

I'll say this, though: I really liked Ninja Mujina. I never got tired of his running gag.

Disclaimer: if you liked Ninninger (or ToQger), I don't intend to question your taste, I just envy you a bit.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by LiterateDead » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:15 pm

The funny thing about this series for me (as the perpetually silent sort) was that it was a bit of a blessing in disguise. I made it to about episode 8 before giving up (I usually aim for a good 5-10 episodes for a solid chance). I just could not care about this one; after a few episodes, it was just trying my patience.

However, I'm still pretty new to sentai. I watched Toqger religiously last year (it was my first sentai series, so yeah, I'll say I'm in the minority who loved it), so seeing that I couldn't stand Ninninger was a bit of a shock. When I finally accepted this wasn't for me, I did the wiser thing: I gave other series a try. I've been trying to figure out what else would work for me, both in sentai and Kamen Rider series. I just recently finished Kamen Rider Den-O (a decent series, but majorly unfocused and kind of lacking a decent resolution), and plan to start up Shinkenger or Gokaiger next, as I've heard positive words about both.

So, I couldn't stand Ninninger, but for what it's worth, it led me to seek out better series. I can at least be thankful for that.

And now that it's over, I can look forward to seeing what Jyuohger might have to offer!

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Jetman » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:54 pm

LiterateDead wrote:I watched Toqger religiously last year (it was my first sentai series, so yeah, I'll say I'm in the minority who loved it)
Hey, I like ToQger too. Don't need to apologize for that.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by MagusKaiser » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:31 pm

honestly ninninger didn't really hook me into anything the mecha's were scattered in theme and usage throughout the series, character development was about as elevating as a mole hill for some while we got a decently sized hill for others, there was no real focus on any of the underlying themes like someone mentioned before the ninja theme was lacking in explanation for the igasaki clan's morals and principles, some of the characters were grating personality wise and not at all that interesting, the only reason why I'm still watching this is because of my one main rule when it comes to watching Anything, if I start it I see it through to the end

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by takenoko » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:34 pm

I have high hopes for Jyuohger. I think they were just saving the budget for it since it's an anniversary series, so they went a bit cheaper for Ninnin and Toq. Maybe it's all in my head or it's a theory pulled out of my ass, but in general it seems like they have a real good sentai series, then maybe one that has less effort spent on it. Then another good one.

For every Shinken we get a Gosei. We have a Gokai and then a Go-Bus (even though both are fantastic). A Kyouryuu, then a Toq and a Ninnin.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by ixmntr » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:36 pm

This series was very disappointing, I gave up after episode 15. The actors seemed disjointed and awkward around each other, even as a "family" it just didn't work. The costumes also were too outrageous. The whole sash thingy and very KR heshin (hey look at me me me meeeeeee!). Ugh Ninja Millennials. No more ninja themes, how about science or technology. I wouldn't mind seeing a helmut with a nokia phone in it again. . . lol :lol:

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by ViRGE » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:03 am

takenoko wrote:Maybe it's all in my head or it's a theory pulled out of my ass,
So you're saying the two are connected, perhaps? :P

(Sorry, that one was too easy to pass up)

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