Fixing Ninninger

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by midorininger » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:22 am

KemonoSoldierSunstar wrote:...everyone's hatred for the show makes me feel ashamed to be one of the people that enjoys it. ._.;
yeah i kinda liked the series even if a bit pale but that doesnt mean i find myself with things left to be desired either.

but 1 thing im finding as i watch older series, there is a long build up for when they do certain things. now, we see the giant combined mecha within the first 3 episodes. BUT! im watching zyuranger, but before that jetman and dairanger, all three it took them several episodes to get the mech, and then 1 or 2 more for the combined form. that would happen closer to ep9 or 10. i wish they would do that more. in fact it almost seems rare for them to fight with their individual mech at all, and rely too heavily on needing to combine.

THE biggest struggle with kyuuemon was they had too many subplots going on and maybe not enough time or substance to wrap them up. OR, they just didnt blend well together to be wrapped up properly.

i would have liked to have seen fuuka have had an episode/mini-arc in which she was really conflicted with being a ninja, similar to chiaki's struggles with being a samurai. i feel fuuka was the least interested in her roll.
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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by aeknar » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:12 pm

Well, I'll try my best to "fix" the story keeping in mind my problem with the show: there's nothing memorable about it. How? Focusin in the strong points, instead of turning a mediocre product by trying things outside your posibilities.

Takaharu will be main, the actor doesn't seem fit for a fun loving goof... turn him into a lazy but competent sort. Like: It doesn't matter if I try, I'll be the last ninja anyway, so I'll take it easy. And we cut every scene where you see him training. This will be our starting point for the script.
Then troll grandpa goes along. Like: I focus in Takaharu, give HIM every power up, and make the rest of the group jealous, if they want to be the last ninja they can either surpass him by really training or getting to me before he does. Also his line (moetekitta!!!) will be kinda ironic and only a façade to try and convince the rest that he also is motivated.
Then justify the premise: the one who kills the most MOTW gets the shiny shurikens. Since Takaharu allways deals the last blow, he is the eldest and a natural talent therefore has unfair advantage, he starts getting them immediately and gets even far ahead of the others.
Then you can justify the MOTW being killed, and not getting any focus in the villans: the main is too OP, they don't have enough resource (AKA "Fear") to summon strong monsters.
The other four can then complain that troll grandpa only focuses on Taka, and ask for more training. Grandpa the says something along the lines of "a teacher focuses in his best student, who in turn trains the rest. Since Takaharu doesn't want to train with me, and seems to be doing fine, ask him..."
Then you keep those "focus" episodes with Taka vs color of the day. And learn that: Fuka sees him like a useless brother because he never does anything outside of battle, Yakumo is jealous because he trained all his youth in magic, whereas Taka never trained. Kasumi is trying to search another way suiting her intelligence, instead of sheer strenght. Nagi is insecure because the difference in strenght with everyone else. This first episodes should convey that "everyone has to search his own path".
But "familiy" I hear, "three generations in the same family". Well, it's hereditary, but Tsumuji lost his powers, so someone new has to finish his training to succeed as head of the family. You can even play the "our parents sent us" card and say they didn't want the title at first, but now there's monsters so they can't leave until Kibaoni is defeated or a new Last Ninja is elected.
We use the first 14 episodes setting this up. There's nothing to do: Takaharu will be last ninja, and he isn't even trying.
But there's a sixth ranger comming this way.
Kinji lost his family, looks up to the Last Ninja, and fashioned his style to be like him. Training VERY hard. Wouldn't you be trying to kill that Takaharu for the title then?
He is the only who can ask to get training sessions, and yet he doesn't. He gets the mechs and powers. Every guest sensei sees him get the monster and leaves saying "he doesn't need my advice".
In other words, Taka trascended his status as a character and becomes the plot device. The others will try to surpass him with the help of Kinji. And the Gold + other color focus episodes will feature the secondary four starting to want the title like Kinji, but Taka still winning the fights.
With Kinji settled, still not strong enough, and not officially a disciple, he learns the truth from Kyuuemon: "if he kills the last ninja, he can be the successor". Cue the wolfman cut, violet eyes and foreshadowing.
Then we get the Masakage and superior youkai monsters, and for the first time, red can't kill the MOTW alone. He still calls the shots, because he is the strongest. But the others start winning confidence. "Taka can't do it alone"
We're starting to doubt the future that seemed so sure... So here you should've put the "oden" metaphor. So we get new color focused episodes, but this time Taka learns what is the point of view of the others and how they've changed since the beggining. He'll still charge first alone, and prove to be the strongest, but now he recognises the effort they put into this.
Seal the deal with the new zord arc: suddenly the effort pays off. Unless it's the 6 together they can't fight the big monsters. Now add a scene where troll grandpa says "maybe someone else will surpass you, since you never trained..."
Cue Kinji surpassing the Youkai power to get Super Star mode. And we get obligatory character development. Now Taka has to learn the lessons he took for granted, and win the title he allways assumed was his by talent alone. He also will have to make his own path.
Reinsert all the training scenes. And for the first time have him repeating the lines everyone else tryed using in previous focus episodes. Using strategies the other pioneered, and "learning".
You can have the subplot with Kinji trying to repay the family by killing Kyueemon and getting Tsumuji power back. And even the Mangetsu outsmarting Kasumi. But put it in perspective. The other four went from a family duty, to wanting the title, to being a necessary part of the team. Kinji is still the one who taught everyone else the lesson to strive to overcome the unfair by becoming stronger (and knows the truth...!) And Taka helps the rest instead of just doing his part.
Then you kan kill Mangetsu, have troll grandpa pick Taka because he learned his lesson. Taka refuses because that's not his own path. And the final episodes suddenly have impact. They feel like earned victories and lessons and we can move in peace to the next year...

I guess that kind of character with late development would clash with most people's tastes, and wouldn't suit much with children.
First forum rant over.
I remember someone pointed this trait should've been in Takaharu since the beggining in one of the episode threads. I think so too... XD

Before ending my post I wanted to ask: doesn't japanese culture focuses more in the eyes than the rest of the face? Wouldn't they found less ofensive Taka's scream than us westerners?

BTW I'm still learning english on my own, so any criticism to my writing helps me improve (specially english grammar)...
Let's all hope for a wonderfull next season without an insufferable Red.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by takenoko » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:47 pm

Hi, welcome. I didn't read the whole thing in detail, but there's little stuff like "Focus in" should probably be "Focus on".

I definitely feel like the family theme should have been the main thing that brought the stories together. Like the three Igasaki generations, the siblings, the cousins, Kinji and his family, and Kyuuemon with his own. As it is right now, it just feels unconnected.

Also, don't get me wrong with this thread. It's not here to make people feel bad for enjoying the show. I always hate posts like that, since no one cares if some random guy thinks something sucks. That's like everything. I wrote this because I think there's some good stuff in it, and wish they were more forefront. I'm trying to imagine a parallel universe where Ninnin was the show we had all hoped it would be. It's not just focusing on all the bad stuff about it.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by fenrir » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:30 pm

this is my 1st post, after follow tvnihon since 2012. mainly i watch KR, but after watch Gokaiger, i watch Sentai again in here (Deka etc). and that's why i somehow cant hold my opinion about ninninger after i watch it until the end just now.

i guess i can agree with most of comments regarding Ninninger. it's quite sad the series becomes dull & boring, since before it start it kinda give me some hope "it might be interesting". this is the 1st sentai which i follow weekly for the new episodes (wizard was my 1st series in tvnihon actually), and somehow these 2, have some similarities = give hope but never achieve it.

the reason why i start watching ninninger:
1. The costume design is quite interesting
2. The combination of colour, mecha & cousin relation which kinda "new"
3.the girls quite attractive for me. i like Yuuka Yano in here. And for Kasumi actress i like her in Fourze movie Ultimatum (if i'm not wrong)

the good thing:
1. Colourful
2. Op & Ed music + Dance are quite fun
3. Kinji+ Kyuemon

the bad things that should be fixed (if rewritten or in the V cinema / Versus /in 10year after special etc):
1. less repeating everything ("I'm on Fire", "easy", dance, plot line, moral message)
It becomes boring bcoz over and over Nininger always repeat the same pattern/ scene in every episodes. as earlier said, Yakumo episode always "love" topic, Takaharu on fire in everything, i saw fuuka dancing 3-4 times i think.
"we broke the rules & make our new path ourself" moral message is good, but i think it repeatedly used in almost every episodes & they only cling on this 1 message,.
agree as take said "family" concept didnt fit in here like in Magi, nor the "strangers" concept in Shinken.

2.Story
last ninja + finishing shuriken as the main plot is ok. but well, i guess too many goofing off filler episodes which kinda halt the plot of story development for the series.
i do think story is only good for Kinji + Kyuemon, as they both start at something, develop & achieve the better version of them (in any way for both).
Plot Twist, well yes, all predictabe so i rule out plot anything in here can be said a twist

3. Character

Takaharu -->too focus on him, but sadly he didn't become a chara that people like. i dont think people complain if the series too focus on ShinkenRed & BoukenRed, even Dekared & GekiRed also do a better job i think in carrying the role which story gonna focus on them. i do think Takaharu will be better if he's a bit smart, the actor kinda better in episode when Takaharu becomes smart, i do think he enjoy it more than the usual Takaharu.

Yakumo --> instead of giving him more story about his strugle in mixing the magic & ninjutsu, the series opt to focus on "easy" & "love" theme for him. if the series try to give him more magical academy background, his chara it might be better.

Kasumi--> yup, i remember i'm impressed when suddenly she becomes serious & kinda promising when she becomes serious and tell Takaharu that gabi is too strong and they need to go away for now (ep 9 perhaps??), then slowly Kasumi keep getting a feel that she might be the best among all 5. the break of her vs Mangetsu is also good. but well somehow in the end she keeps hold herself and give way to Takaharu to be the best. it also bad that we never saw her parents.

Fuuka--> IMHO the actress do quite good in potraying her as the comical chara in here. but cmon, its kinda bad to make her weak, clumsy & childish along the series without any improvement. in the end, only her not be able to use Choutetsu, while in Shinken. although Kotoha seems like the weakest among all, she still get the chance to use the power up. i feel Fuuka is totally underdeveloped and repeatedly just being used as a comical chara until the end. such a waste for a member of the sentai.

Gabi--> good chara, good rival for Red as well. introduce too early & disappear too early. no need to be brought back if only beaten easily like that.
Tsugomori Masakage--> promising at first, but fade away along the story goes on. he looks smart & strong at first but day by day he keeps become funny and less threatening.
Ariake--> dull, why dont make her as a rival for Kasumi & Fuuka?? she can be if the story helps, but no, eventhou the series kinda show that she is Kasumi rival (Mangetsu is the rival in my opinion)
Mangetsu--> good chara, but introduce too late & disappear too early.
Kibaoni --> if he just do that, it's better if he never appear

Nagi, Kinji & Kyuemon quite ok i think. Nagi have his best in some episode around 20-35. Kinji & Kyuemon can be better but i do think they good enough in here.

4. Robo/Mecha/Zord
just the posistion of 1st mecha, i'll understand if it is Shinken robo, and why the red should be on the top. but Takaharu?? NO!!

then, why most of them always have to be centered to red. in Gaoranger you give some other additional mecha to other member as well.
i think gaoblue get shark+girrafe, while gaoblack get black& polar bear (not sure). But the point is you SHARE the ownership of the additional mecha!!!

and the never ending question & my regret is Fuuka's Dog, Nagi Dump truck & Kasumi train all not really useful, compare to Yakumo Dragon & Takaharu Shinobi. such an unequal mecha.

so ya that's it. i guess the series end up in tie with Goon for me as my least fav series that i watch so far (thou Goon have better girls)
otw: Ex-Aid , Hurricane (ep3), Amazons S2, Kyuuranger

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KR: Black, RX, Super1 + all Heisei + AMAZONS
Sentai: Zyu,Dai,Gao,Deka,Magi,Bouken,Geki,Goon,Shinken,Gokai,GoBus,ToQ,Ninnin
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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by KemonoSoldierSunstar » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:27 am

Sorry, I didn't mean to annoy you with my first post, Take. But I do personally enjoy the series, though I admit that some things could use an improvement. I guess the overwhelming reactions of "I hate this" kinda struck a nerve or two.

I can't really articulate what my problems with this series are that could be fixed at the moment, but I guess I just prefer this over that travesty starring Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends last year.

Honestly, if any series has me worried, it's the new one.

Also, to Fenrir...
fenrir wrote:i guess the series end up in tie with Goon for me as my least fav series that i watch so far (thou Goon have better girls)
Really? That was actually one of my favorite in the Super Sentai series, mostly for how the Engines and the rangers interact. But hey, to each their own, right?

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by fenrir » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:14 am

@kemono soldier suntar :

the interaction of machine & human in Go-On is quite ok, it's just somehow i dont really get the enjoyment of that series that Go-Onger offer.
a problem in Go on for me actually they didnt explore the other (5/7) world that being said in the beginning of series. (Deka told bout diffrent planet & explore them once in a while i believe)
Go-On Wings give something good for a while, but the also slowly faded as the story goes.
1 thing that might affect my opinion for Go-Onger perhaps bcoz i watch the PR RPM as well at the same time.
RPM better in giving a good cliffhanger & more serious tone. while the transition from comedic into serious in Go-onger in the final 5 episodes somehow looks being too forced ---> scene where 1 by 1 member of the group is fallen / presume dead.

anyway, its just only my opinion. perhaps our fav is not same. no probs right?
Shinken, Gokai & Geki is so far my top 3 sentai that i watched already i think
otw: Ex-Aid , Hurricane (ep3), Amazons S2, Kyuuranger

finished:
KR: Black, RX, Super1 + all Heisei + AMAZONS
Sentai: Zyu,Dai,Gao,Deka,Magi,Bouken,Geki,Goon,Shinken,Gokai,GoBus,ToQ,Ninnin
Garo: All (anime[both] as well)
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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by takenoko » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:28 am

I wasn't annoyed Kemono, I just wanted to clarify some things.

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Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by KemonoSoldierSunstar » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:48 pm

IT's all good. And please, I prefer Sunstar.

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