Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

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Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by harpdevil »

I feel like I've seen enough of the series now (7 episodes) to make a call on it, and sadly I've been pretty disappointed thus far. My main gripes are:

- Sparse characterisation. I know practically nothing about any of our main characters, their backstories, what they were doing before coming to Volcity etc. Ryuga is the biggest disappointment here, he's supposed to be the main character and the only reason I know that is because he's Garo. Without any character development I find it hard to care about these people. Zaruba is barely in it, and when he is it's to say how much he doesn't like these Makai Knights. I'm right there with you, buddy. Hell, they've spent more time developing the police woman than they have any other character.

- Horrors. Remember the first series, when each episode followed a Horror and it's individual way of killing, like individual horror stories? I liked that, and in the later seasons when they dropped that at least they replaced it with an over-arcing plot that gave us more info on the makai order. This is just.. nothing. It's hard to think the Knights are baddass when theyre usually fighting average-looking joes who occasionally have CG maws. Which leads us on to...

- CG. Where are the real suits! Perhaps it's not worth it when you have episodes where the Knights are armoured for 2 or 3 seconds. That time limit really came down, eh! The only reason I can think they we get so little armoured fighting in this show is because the CG is expensive. Don't use it then! Sure, I get that CG heroes can be a lot faster and more manoeuvrable than guys in suits, but frankly the CG isn't good enough to be convincing. I'd rather have real suits even if it looks a bit awkward. Same with the Horrors. I find this really surprising considering Kouga was taking motorcycle rides up Horror-dragons and destroying floating fortresses!

- Sparse plot development. In the first episode we learnt that there are Horrors in Volcity, the Kaneshiro group run the city, and the city is crying. A few episodes later we learn there are such things as Madou Horrors that can't be detected in the same ways, and then in epsiode 7 we find that "Someone is controlling the Horrors". Gee, who could that be. We've watched nearly 3 hours of this Garo now, and that's all we know. Sure, tv shows arent going to have the same pacing as film, but the lack of plot development is starkly apparent when you don't have anything else going on than defeating a Horror each week that isn't very interesting, due to lack of set up and just looking like a guy with the same CG maw each time.

- The combination of all of the above. I have a Garo I know nothing about that can't detect lame Horrors that are being controlled by a group I know nothing about. When he does fight them he only summons his armour for 2 or 3 seconds to deliver a blow, and often doing so seems to hurt him as well. This series just seems so stunted and cut back in so many ways. It feels very cheap, in the use of and duration of CG, the human Horrors, and limited filming locations. I like the idea of Volcity and the Kaneshiro group, which could be cool if they are ever set up as a visible threat (neither we nor the characters have ever met a member of this group that's supposedly the big bad). They could have the spirit of the city under their control and are twisting it to turn it into a Horror production plant. Imagine these band of Knights trapped in a city where the very city itself is trying to crush them.

I really want to like this Garo, it's one of my favourite Toku after all. There is plenty of time for it to develop some of these aspects of course, but if someone were to ask me "Why are you watching this show?", I should be able to give better answer than "Because I'm hoping it'll get better." In the mean time I'll watch Karas, which does these themes a hell of a lot better.
Image Demon beasts called Horrors live in the darkness. This is a story of a Makai Knight who cuts down the Horrors. You better not look away.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by XIII »

The lack of use of the armour is more likely down to them being unskilled and undisciplined, remember zaruba calls them children, he knows they are not ready for what they are doing, the lack of gold on Garo is indication that Ryuuga hasnt attained the full right to use the armour or knows how to, more than likely down to his blocked memories of his past

The CG suits are fine in my opinion, I have no objection to them using them in the short transformed fights that they have, I would suspect that the amount of work to use suit actors out weighs the use of CG suits

Now there is some aspects of development coming, but spoiler rules prevent me saying

You also have to look at it this way, they completely changed the cast and locations to get a fresh start to start anew and develop all of these characters, everyone just seems to be coming to the show and expecting to instantly bond with a person and know what his deal is, thats not how you start building a new show up, you have to start with sparse details to build everything up, heck Garo S1 had very little development to start with and took some time to get really going, I think your fan-love of Garo of old is clouding your perception of this show and making you hate it for not being the show you know and want, If you step back and accept the show for what it is, a brand new show, then you would enjoy it more, you just have too high an expectation of it cause it bares the name Garo, had they just called it Yami wo Terasu Mono, you would probably enjoy the show more and have less perceptions of it.

I know thats pretty blunt, but thats how it seems to me, you may disagree with that, and thats cool, everyone is entitled to their opinion on the subject
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by Dragonfan »

I'm not agree with you in the "characters and plot" point. I mean, do you remember Garo first season? In the first seven episodes we saw Kouga fighting the museum horror, the business woman, the clock one, the hospital, the sadako, the tomb one aaaaaaand finally in episode 7 we have some kind of plot and climax with Garo vs Zero (character introduced in the previous episode if I recall).

Where I'm with you is in the CG and horror points. I mean, the CG es HORRIBLE. I mean, look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKq-3aiD ... 9EF#t=165s

This is so much better than the Garo 3 CG, and was made in 2005. Did they change the special effects staff?

And about the horrors, I really hope that the generic horrors thing is a plot point, because they are really disappointing. I kinda accepted the "putty patrol" horrors, but in the last episode they reused the demon horror from the episode 2 in another totally different madou horror, that was lame.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by takenoko »

I think it's fine. The main plot pacing is probably faster than the original series. There's a lot of stuff that is going on and it's been building on itself.

The only episode I really didn't enjoy was seven, and even then it made for an interesting discussion on the forums.

The only real negative that I see in this series is the weak monster design. Amemiya Keita was the man when it came to monster design, annnnnnd he's not really made any sort of presence in this new series, and I think it shows.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by Lunagel »

Azazel wrote:If you step back and accept the show for what it is, a brand new show, then you would enjoy it more, you just have too high an expectation of it cause it bares the name Garo, had they just called it Yami wo Terasu Mono, you would probably enjoy the show more and have less perceptions of it.
That's my real problem with this show. If they had done that and just called it something completely different then yeah, I probably would like it more. But they didn't. If I watch a sequel or a prequel, I expect it to at least be similar to the original, that's the whole damn point.

As a non-Garo show, I think it's not bad. It's got some good and bad points, and for as many times as I yell at the cameraman for doing something utterly retarded, I laugh at Takeru being crazy or Rian's dialogue.

However, as a Garo show, it's just bad. If they had just called it something different I would stop my bitching. But they didn't, and they're clearly trying to cash in on fan love of the original series by putting out a clearly inferior product (aka Star Wars Episode 1).
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by takenoko »

I don't know if you can claim it is bad as a Garo show? It's still got excellent action scenes and the underlying Makai stuff.

It's not like they're saying this is connected in any way to anything done in the past. It really comes off as a remake, and in that sense, I'm okay with it.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by harpdevil »

I don't by any means hate the show, let's just get that clear. Am I comparing it to the Kouga seasons? Certainly, but only as a way of presenting what they are capable of rather than complaining that I wish it were the same. By all means completely change it up, I'd be disappointed if they rebooted the series and it was more of the same. What I AM complaining about is it being less compelling and visually arresting than I know they are capable of, and that its those aspects that make Garo what it is.

One point I was making is about how the absence of plot direction is apparent when you don't have engaging individual stories. You have to have one or the other. I agree that the first season of Garo didn't have a lot of over-arcing plot development. What it did have though were interesting episodic mini-stories. In one episode you would learn about the Horror and/or the person they were controlling, their motives, have some great freaky moments and shots, and have some cool fight scenes at the end. Often you'd have Kaoru's story running alongside that. Sometimes Kouga wasn't really even involved till the end, but it didn't matter because I was engaged in the story and it made Kouga defeating the Horror that much more significant.

The fish one particularly sticks out in my mind, where a guy is enticed by a horror to kill women and feed their bodies to the fish so that it could grow a body of its own. He did it because he was incredibly lonely, and the Horror preyed on him just as much as he preyed on women. It reminded me of something Takashi Miike might come up with, and the shots the director chose were just as creepy. The Horror also has lasting ramifications on the story,
Spoiler
revealing to Kaoru the fate that Kouga has hidden from her all along
. What did hunting the Horror have to do with the over-arcing plot? Nothing at all, but I still got an interesting and satisfying individual story. Also while it might not have revealed anything about the world or where the story was going, the plot was moved on a point in regards to Kaoru. It affects Kaoru and Kouga's relationship and I'm left wondering what will happen next.

Compare that to Yami wo Terasu Mono, and two or more episodes can go by where no real plot development happens but the individual stories are weak as well, due to poor characterisation, dull Horrors and stories that don't go anywhere. Why did the 'bride' Horror attack people? Why choose that particular bride? To put it into perspective, episode 7 of the original series is where
Spoiler
Rei tries to kill Kaoru and Kouga and Zero fight across skyscrapers!


I think you guys are being overly kind to the show by presuming the lack of armour or Horrors are aspects of the story. Zaruba, who also relies on CG, has been pretty absent from the show as well. I'll admit this last point IS a direct comparison between Kouga and Ryuga Garo, but hopefully I've been clear in explaining the rest that the problems Ryuga Garo has are its own, and not by comparison to what came before. Were this to be the first ever Garo those problems would still remain, and my talking about Kouga Garo was a means of making those problems clear by contrast rather than wishing it were the same.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by takenoko »

The fish story was a late season episode and was a major story that affected Kouga and Kaoru's relationship.

>Compare that to Yami wo Terasu Mono, and two or more episodes can go by where no real plot development happens but the individual stories are weak as well, due to poor characterisation, dull Horrors and stories that don't go anywhere. Why did the 'bride' Horror attack people? Why choose that particular bride?

I don't really agree with this at all. In the end, to each their own, but there is stuff going on. Real definite stuff. I'm definitely enjoying the individual stories.

>I think you guys are being overly kind to the show

And I think your expectations based on previous shows is clouding your judgement of the series. You're obviously not making any attempt to judge the show on its own merits, given that everything you criticize about the show is a direct comparison to the previous series.

The worst part of the Garo series has always been the CGI. The out of suit fighting is pretty great and that's fine.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by Phoenix512 »

It does seem to me that most of the hate is coming from people who love the Garo in the past and disappointed with it because it's different. It sort of reminds me of how people didn't like Go-Busters because it deviated from the traditional Sentai formula. This series is still Garo but different from past Garo. It still has a world to build and think we will get character development in time. I don't really have a problem with lack of armor fights or the Horror design since that's really very low in my totem pole. It will be fine in the end just like Go-Busters was.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by Dragonfan »

takenoko wrote: The worst part of the Garo series has always been the CGI.
I don't think that this is true. I mean, this battle is one of my favourites, and one of the favourites in general, and it's completely CGI. But the quality is great:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkVb8674qho

It's not the best CGI ever, but considering that this is a japanese weekly show, damn, it's amazing. In Garo 3 we have had just a very short moments of CG, and it was bad. I don't want to think what are they going to do if they have to make a long battle like this one.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by OOOKaiser »

Dragonfan wrote:
takenoko wrote: The worst part of the Garo series has always been the CGI.
I don't think that this is true. I mean, this battle is one of my favourites, and one of the favourites in general, and it's completely CGI. But the quality is great:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkVb8674qho

It's not the best CGI ever, but considering that this is a japanese weekly show, damn, it's amazing. In Garo 3 we have had just a very short moments of CG, and it was bad. I don't want to think what are they going to do if they have to make a long battle like this one.
I loved that part of Garo Maki Senki. I think that was the best CGI fight ever. But compared to Garo Yamo wo Terasu you can like actually tell that the freaking armor looks unreal. While in that fight scene in Makai Senki it actually took me a while to realize it was CGI.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by Dragonfan »

OOOKaiser wrote: I loved that part of Garo Maki Senki. I think that was the best CGI fight ever. But compared to Garo Yamo wo Terasu you can like actually tell that the freaking armor looks unreal. While in that fight scene in Makai Senki it actually took me a while to realize it was CGI.
Yes, I am very curious about how they did it, if it is completely CG or at least they used stunts por motion caption.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by OOOKaiser »

Since I'm used to Kouga more than Ryuga maybe that's why I don't like the new season. But they could really stop with the cgi suits and hire some suit actors. I understand that they're on a budget and maybe that's why all the regular/mado horrors look the same (with the exception of Endou and that horror from episode 8). But at least be creative with the cgi, I'm getting tired of seeing the trimouth on the regular horrors. I understand that Ryuga is kind and good-natured but sooner or later he will suffer for it. That's all I have to say for now. After eight episodes of this of Garo: Yamo wo Terasu Mono, I would have to say it'll take some time getting used to the cgi suits but if they give more character development all the main characters I'll enjoy watching the show more.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by MissTokuLover »

so far I'm really enjoying the new season, sure it's not as good as Makai Senki & Ryuga is no Kouga. But it's growing on me & I like some of the new characters. The CGI is a bit overdone & some don't seem as realistic, but I'm ok with that.
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Re: Garo Yami wo Terasu Mono - thoughts and impressions.

Post by takenoko »

I guess people think alike everywhere. Someone posted a compilation picture of all the monsters and suit designs from season one

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I wonder what Amemiya is doing nowadays that keeps him too busy to work on the latest Garo show? Tougen no Fue? That movie better be pretty damn good since Red Requiem was sort of shit.
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