Too Many Rider Forms?

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Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Actar » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:45 am

With the recent Riders focusing heavily on collectible gimmicks, each Rider has been getting more and more abilities and forms.

I feel that there are two problems that arise when they try to have multiple forms:

- Forms that can only be used in extremely specific situations, making them feel contrived. (Exceedingly apparent with Fourze, Wizard and Drive.)
- Multiple forms that share similar abilities so that certain forms become redundant.

With Kuuga and Double, the abilities were generic enough to be applicable in a variety of situations but unique enough so that they kept being re-used even in later episodes when the time called for them. In Gaim, they at least spread the forms and weapons across multiple Riders so that each of them had a purpose and screen-time (okay, save for a couple).

I think it's that balance that's missing from a lot of the shows that focus on creating one-time-use power-ups and a myriad of forms.

What do you guys think?
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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Catastrophe » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:44 pm

Some riders are better at it then others. The fact that made W work well as it just seemed more like changing powers then anything.

The thing that annoys me is how the final form makes all the others redundant. Like Drive had some sweet forms. Speed, Wild and Technic all complemented each other having specialty areas in combat. Then he could use Dead Heat for some reason but didn't all that much. Then you had Formula which should have been his final form, but they all get shafted in favour of Tridoron. Honestly, they need to get rid of this Mid-Season form bullshit and have better pacing for the other forms, but they won't because toys.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by eijiman » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:28 am

Yes, i have been thinking the same, the toy selling is a a double-sided sword, at first it helps them to fund the show, but on the other side, it makes the weapons look ridiculously plastic, compare ninningers swords with some older ones. and like you said, gives too much emphasis to the many forms, and i somehow think that also affects the story. like he said, in Drive they got enough forms with the first 4, type speed for a standard/fast form, wild for power, techninc for being precise, and dead heat as a powerful form with a drawback, it really did not needed anymore forms. I kinda wish they somehow manage to get support without so many toy selling stuff.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by AkuTenshiiZero » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:14 pm

I think W handled it well. As I have commented before, W's form switching was fluid and interesting, because the whole mix-and-match nature of his powers meant no two combinations were the same. He swapped Memories quickly while dodging blows, the change was a simple color swap, and the action kept going without missing a beat. Efficient and elegant in it's simplicity. OOO pushed things a bit far, but they made up for the busier form-switching by making it infrequent. He usually stuck to one form through most of the fight until he nailed down a strategy or obtained a super combo and switched. The whole premise of the show was built on medals being gained and lost at a regular pace, and the adaptability of his powers.

I think the problem with Ghost so far is the "Show it, Sell it, Shelve it" mentality. I don't feel like Ghost just got a cool new power that will be a boon to him in the future, I feel like Bandai is hocking their plastic crap at me. It's like when Transformers used to bring in a new character, show how awesome they were, and then you'd be lucky to see them in the background next episode. It's writing by a marketing executive.
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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Catastrophe » Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:02 am

It's the collect a thon thing. Fourze was guilty of it as well, but at least the switches were paced over 2/3rds of the show.

With Ghost, it's been a new form every episode. Shit, the Second rider debuts in the 4th episode. It's stupid at this point.

Double worked well. The switching in combat was nice. And the extra memories they sold where just for novelty. Fuck I miss that. Re-watching W now.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Go-On Macaroni » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:44 am

Early secondary riders aren't anything new, though. G3 showed up in ep1 of Agito, same with Blade's Garren and Ryuki's Knight. IXA showed up in episode 9 of Kiva, etc. etc. I could go on but, Ghost isn't doing anything new there.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Catastrophe » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:11 pm

I'm meaning this collectathon era from OOOs onwards though. Other than Gaim, where it was advertised that there was going to be a fuckton of riders from the onset, usually they've waited a while before dropping the secondary rider in.

This just screams product shilling. I know, it's a kids show with the purpose of selling toys. But I imagine that both Ghost and Spectre are going to both have a shit tonne of forms by the halfway mark that'll never get used when final forms start rolling around.

It reminds me of that episode of OOOs where Hina's brother recovers and he practises being Eijis support and they have a montage of various mix and match forms. Something that was advertised and used heavily earlier on but fell out of favour with the use of combos instead.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Kuchiri » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:46 pm

Secondary riders show up early in the show for two reasons.
1. They are the second main character to root for. (Team Ghost or Team Spectre)
2. We are about to see even more riders. (Maybe three riders each controlling five main eyecons stealing them from eachother?)

The final form is meant to outclass the others because it needs to. It literally makes the Rider over powered to match against general-level bosses. Extreme gave W the ability to instantly know everything about the monster they were fighting. Plus allowing them to use four gaiamemories at once.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Catastrophe » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:53 pm

But again, with W the other forms got used as well as Xtreme. If you look at Wizard or Drive, it's pretty much base form -> Final Form straight away.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Kuchiri » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:05 pm

Catastrophe wrote:But again, with W the other forms got used as well as Xtreme. If you look at Wizard or Drive, it's pretty much base form -> Final Form straight away.
Late game W was basically all Extreme all the time. Until they were told that it would kill Philip then they tried other ways.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Revorse » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:49 am

Catastrophe wrote:But again, with W the other forms got used as well as Xtreme. If you look at Wizard or Drive, it's pretty much base form -> Final Form straight away.
Outside of Land Style/Land Dragon and All Dragon I thought Wizard was somewhat mixed when it came to forms. Now Kiva was that dude who pretty much only used his Final Form after he got it.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Kuchiri » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:41 am

Revorse wrote:
Catastrophe wrote:But again, with W the other forms got used as well as Xtreme. If you look at Wizard or Drive, it's pretty much base form -> Final Form straight away.
Outside of Land Style/Land Dragon and All Dragon I thought Wizard was somewhat mixed when it came to forms. Now Kiva was that dude who pretty much only used his Final Form after he got it.
That was actually because of the suit actor, not writing. He had a hard time moving in the base form.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Revorse » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:06 am

Really? I had no idea. Do you know what the problem was? Maybe the chest piece or the leg?

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Kuchiri » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:12 am

He said it was heavy and he couldn't move the way he wanted to. It's also the reason why he got his super form extremely early.

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Re: Too Many Rider Forms?

Post by Lunagel » Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:08 pm

There was a rider race extra we subbed a long while back where they had a race between a bunch of suit actors wearing the rider costumes and while most of the suits were around 20 kg, I think Kiva was around 30. I'd have to find the clip again.

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