Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

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Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by eijiman »

Well, Ghost is going to be one of the worst KR series apparently. But Bandai is selling a lots of toys so they won't care.

Now i think that the main problem is not Takeru, but the other characters, they are just plain boring cliche jokes. Oniiiichan, oniiichan. Science this, science that. they are a waste of time.

About story, well they seem to be stalling, Takeru is just fighting the same dudes over and over, who by the way, pose no threat at all. Story is not advancing, and the fights are not interesting, is time for him to defeat Igor for good this time, destroy the boring plate monsters and the super annoying alain's bro.

I think that will save the show, this villains are boring, they need to be eliminated with haste and introduce a new one, even if he is like Banno, it's much better than this suckers. I remember that in the drive episode, Takeru and yurusen were kinda similar in personality, wonder why takeru can't be like that anymore? he should realise that he is pretty much inmortal and start relaxing a lil bit.

by the way, which Bike is used for the Machine Ghostriker?
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

Post by Go-On Macaroni »

darkmage02 wrote:Seriously, ever since Alain deferred from Team Ganma and join the good guys, the show has been lacking a complex and interesting villain. Adel just doesn't cut it and Igor is more of an annoyance now than anything. [..] but at least Drive got really good towards the later part of the plot.
But.. Drive had to rework its plot and shove in a villain just to fill that spot; you think that's better? At least if Adel ends up becoming final boss, it'd fit with the rest of the show.
Cyborg-Lucario wrote:Sure, we got a new version of the Plan Ganma, but it's not good enough.
What would be good enough, then?
eijiman wrote:Well, Ghost is going to be one of the worst KR series apparently. But Bandai is selling a lots of toys so they won't care.
I have a hard time seeing it as worse when shows like Kabuto, Kiva, Faiz, Wizard, or heck, even Decade exist. I mean, I can understand not liking it, but saying it's one of the worst when we've had Riders with actually worse story flaws just strikes me as odd.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

Post by Cyborg-Lucario »

Go-On Macaroni wrote:
Cyborg-Lucario wrote:Sure, we got a new version of the Plan Ganma, but it's not good enough.
What would be good enough, then?
You know, maybe I was unreasonably harsh on that one.
eijiman wrote:Well, Ghost is going to be one of the worst KR series apparently. But Bandai is selling a lots of toys so they won't care.
I have a hard time seeing it as worse when shows like Kabuto, Kiva, Faiz, Wizard, or heck, even Decade exist. I mean, I can understand not liking it, but saying it's one of the worst when we've had Riders with actually worse story flaws just strikes me as odd.[/quote]

To be honest so do I like Kiva just because it was my first Kamen Rider. Kabuto on the other hand I really want to remember to be good, but I can't really ignore all the things that drags it down.
But I will agree that Faiz, Wizard, and Decade's story weren't that good.
Heck, I'll say something positive about Ghost; It feels like the Ganma are more of a threat than the phantoms.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

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Go-On Macaroni wrote:I have a hard time seeing it as worse when shows like Kabuto, Kiva, Faiz, Wizard, or heck, even Decade exist. I mean, I can understand not liking it, but saying it's one of the worst when we've had Riders with actually worse story flaws just strikes me as odd.
Decade belongs in its own special little hell. Otherwise Ghost is turning into the new Wizard*, with a decent enough arc in the middle with Alain.

* But hey, wouldn't that mean the new Gaim is next? :D
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

Post by Shurikenger108 »

Cyborg-Lucario wrote:
Heck, I'll say something positive about Ghost; It feels like the Ganma are more of a threat than the phantoms.
To me, the phantoms are much more serious than the Ganma. At least Phantoms can make them fall into despair and kill them (Well in Wizard timeline no one died, but lots of people died in Sabbath so yea, Phantoms CAN kill people seriously). And what about Ganma? We have a Paint Ganma who only want to draw, a musician Ganma who cried because his boss shouted at him, and several Ganma did something mysterious to humans and can be cured by a hug. The only people we have seen Ganma killed is Takeru, and he has revived 3 times.
In my opinion, it's not necessary to kill people to become a good villain (Like OOO and Fourze). But at least tell us about your motivation and plan. You put people in dream for what? You collect human's soul for what? And Deep Connect have been controlled since episode 19, now is 36 and we haven't know what Igor trying to do. And then we have an audition :|. Nearly 20 episodes is too much and don't tell me those bracelets is the whole Igor's master plan :|
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

Post by Cyborg-Lucario »

Shurikenger108 wrote:
Cyborg-Lucario wrote:
Heck, I'll say something positive about Ghost; It feels like the Ganma are more of a threat than the phantoms.
To me, the phantoms are much more serious than the Ganma. At least Phantoms can make them fall into despair and kill them (Well in Wizard timeline no one died, but lots of people died in Sabbath so yea, Phantoms CAN kill people seriously). And what about Ganma? We have a Paint Ganma who only want to draw, a musician Ganma who cried because his boss shouted at him, and several Ganma did something mysterious to humans and can be cured by a hug. The only people we have seen Ganma killed is Takeru, and he has revived 3 times.
In my opinion, it's not necessary to kill people to become a good villain (Like OOO and Fourze). But at least tell us about your motivation and plan. You put people in dream for what? You collect human's soul for what? And Deep Connect have been controlled since episode 19, now is 36 and we haven't know what Igor trying to do. And then we have an audition :|. Nearly 20 episodes is too much and don't tell me those bracelets is the whole Igor's master plan :|
Hmm, why did I forget about that? Am I really remembering Wizard that badly? o__o

Dang, I guess the Ganma has no excuses now.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

Post by darkmage02 »

Go-On Macaroni wrote:
darkmage02 wrote:Seriously, ever since Alain deferred from Team Ganma and join the good guys, the show has been lacking a complex and interesting villain. Adel just doesn't cut it and Igor is more of an annoyance now than anything. [..] but at least Drive got really good towards the later part of the plot.
But.. Drive had to rework its plot and shove in a villain just to fill that spot; you think that's better? At least if Adel ends up becoming final boss, it'd fit with the rest of the show.

Like you said, Drive reworked its plot and shove in a villain just to make the show good. At least Drive did that. Do you feel the writers for Ghost even bother to make the story good? Week after week we get nonsensical humour and weakass villains, with Igor being the center of annoyance and Adel basically pouts over what's perfect or not. I would rather they shove in a villain like Banno just to make things interesting than to carry on this meaningless load of crap week after week.
Cyborg-Lucario wrote:Sure, we got a new version of the Plan Ganma, but it's not good enough.
What would be good enough, then?
eijiman wrote:Well, Ghost is going to be one of the worst KR series apparently. But Bandai is selling a lots of toys so they won't care.
I have a hard time seeing it as worse when shows like Kabuto, Kiva, Faiz, Wizard, or heck, even Decade exist. I mean, I can understand not liking it, but saying it's one of the worst when we've had Riders with actually worse story flaws just strikes me as odd.
Really? Kabuto, Kiva, Faiz, and Wizard is worse than Ghost? Which pot are you smoking bro? Kiva started out as "ehhh?" but midway of the show the story got really good, and it Kurenai Otoya is awesome as fuck. Kabuto was the opposite of Kiva, whereas it started off good but got dragged midway but it had interesting characters to keep the story going. Faiz was one of the darkest Heisei series, and despite how much people hated its ending the show as a whole dabbled on what it means to be a human and a monster, and some twisted fuck characters. More than the simpleton characters and plot Ghost has to offer. Wizard was pretty boring but Koyomi's little story moved me.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

Post by Cyborg-Lucario »

darkmage02 wrote:
Go-On Macaroni wrote:
But.. Drive had to rework its plot and shove in a villain just to fill that spot; you think that's better? At least if Adel ends up becoming final boss, it'd fit with the rest of the show.

Like you said, Drive reworked its plot and shove in a villain just to make the show good. At least Drive did that. Do you feel the writers for Ghost even bother to make the story good? Week after week we get nonsensical humour and weakass villains, with Igor being the center of annoyance and Adel basically pouts over what's perfect or not. I would rather they shove in a villain like Banno just to make things interesting than to carry on this meaningless load of crap week after week.



What would be good enough, then?



I have a hard time seeing it as worse when shows like Kabuto, Kiva, Faiz, Wizard, or heck, even Decade exist. I mean, I can understand not liking it, but saying it's one of the worst when we've had Riders with actually worse story flaws just strikes me as odd.
Really? Kabuto, Kiva, Faiz, and Wizard is worse than Ghost? Which pot are you smoking bro? Kiva started out as "ehhh?" but midway of the show the story got really good, and it Kurenai Otoya is awesome as fuck. Kabuto was the opposite of Kiva, whereas it started off good but got dragged midway but it had interesting characters to keep the story going. Faiz was one of the darkest Heisei series, and despite how much people hated its ending the show as a whole dabbled on what it means to be a human and a monster, and some twisted fuck characters. More than the simpleton characters and plot Ghost has to offer. Wizard was pretty boring but Koyomi's little story moved me.
I may have said that I didn't like Faiz's story earlier, but I want you to know that I will definitively place above Wizard and Ghost on a Kamen Rider list from worst to best, and no, Faiz wouldn't even be the third worst KR I have seen.
I would probably place it somewhere in the middle since even though I remember the plot not being that good, so was it still cool and had lots of interesting characters. Come to think of it, I don't think I even had any issue with the ending.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

Post by Go-On Macaroni »

Shurikenger108 wrote:To me, the phantoms are much more serious than the Ganma. [..] In my opinion, it's not necessary to kill people to become a good villain (Like OOO and Fourze). But at least tell us about your motivation and plan.
Phantoms had no plan, though; at least, until the end when White Wizard went on about wanting to revive his daughter. Other than that, it was tons of episodes where (because White Wizard needed certain victims alive), the Phantoms couldn't muster up much further than "we're scary!". That's kinda worse than the Ganma, who Adel and Igor are letting loose rampant on Human World because it's not up to their "perfect" standards.

Granted, I have no issue with "Let's attack just to take over the world!" but, the Phantoms weren't even allowed to do that much.
darkmage02 wrote:Really? Kabuto, Kiva, Faiz, and Wizard is worse than Ghost? Which pot are you smoking bro? Kiva started out as "ehhh?" but midway of the show the story got really good, and it Kurenai Otoya is awesome as fuck. Kabuto was the opposite of Kiva, whereas it started off good but got dragged midway but it had interesting characters to keep the story going.
Kudos if you liked them, but I didn't really. I couldn't finish Kabuto because I didn't like any of the characters and stupid junk like Tsurugi's debut and Tendou refusing to help because of his poor soy sauce didn't help any. Kiva had potential but the production clearly wasn't up for it and Inoue poorly copied a lot of his characters again (Kurenai Otoya being a mixture of both Shougo Kuroiwa and Akira from his Changerion show).
Faiz was one of the darkest Heisei series, and despite how much people hated its ending the show as a whole dabbled on what it means to be a human and a monster, and some twisted fuck characters. More than the simpleton characters and plot Ghost has to offer.
Eh, so, did the original series and a bunch of Showa shows. I wouldn't say it excuses Faiz for going around in circles like it did.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

Post by darkmage02 »

Go-On Macaroni wrote:
Phantoms had no plan, though; at least, until the end when White Wizard went on about wanting to revive his daughter. Other than that, it was tons of episodes where (because White Wizard needed certain victims alive), the Phantoms couldn't muster up much further than "we're scary!". That's kinda worse than the Ganma, who Adel and Igor are letting loose rampant on Human World because it's not up to their "perfect" standards.

Granted, I have no issue with "Let's attack just to take over the world!" but, the Phantoms weren't even allowed to do that much.
Ganma goes rampant on the world but does nothing more than slugging around making silly "oooooo" noises. Phantoms kill in a rather sadistic way - driving humans into despair so their inner phantoms will devour them. And Igor's experiments are stupid and he's lesser a threat than a MOTW.
Go-On Macaroni wrote:Kudos if you liked them, but I didn't really. I couldn't finish Kabuto because I didn't like any of the characters and stupid junk like Tsurugi's debut and Tendou refusing to help because of his poor soy sauce didn't help any. Kiva had potential but the production clearly wasn't up for it and Inoue poorly copied a lot of his characters again (Kurenai Otoya being a mixture of both Shougo Kuroiwa and Akira from his Changerion show).
Lol I didn't overlook the problems with those shows but despite all of their flaws they're still a better show than Ghost. Takeru is one dimensional. His friends are buffoons trying too hard to be funny, Makoto was awesome in his debut but now he's just kind of being there with no actual weight on the story, Alain's arc ended and he's sort of being there now too, Adel is too typical of a big bad (yawns) and Igor is annoying with no actual threat presence.

In fact, Bills is a greater villain than Adel and Igor combined.

Go-On Macaroni wrote:Eh, so, did the original series and a bunch of Showa shows. I wouldn't say it excuses Faiz for going around in circles like it did.
Ehh I didn't say Faiz was the better than the Showas. It has its problems. And I'm talking about Heisei. Why bring in the Showa? So desperate to make a case for Ghost? Lol
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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by eijiman »

Now that you mention it, I think the m ain problem right now are Adel and Igor. Adel is simply annoying, he has no personality or anything that makes him a good character. you could easily replace him with ane of those BOB punching things and you would not feel any diference. And Igor is just doing random crap, Im going to send everyone to the dream world because fuck you, that's why!

And well, maybe im biased because Decade was my first rider, but i found it better than Ghost. at least the fight secuences were good, and it was kinda fun to see tsukasa bully the other riders or the monsters.
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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by takenoko »

I added a poll. So do viewers think Ghost is the worst Rider ever? Let's see how many agree!

At the time of the poll creation, it's in its mid 30s of episodes. The poll will run for 3 weeks.
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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Catastrophe »

God no. Even amongst Hesei Riders, Kiva or Hibiki are in the running for the lowest.

Ghost suffered the same problem with Drive. Had to cram all the toy shit into the first quarter to sell them before worrying about developing the plot. It definitely has picked up. The cast isn't as likeable as Drive though, so by comparison it's seems a little worse.

They need to recapture what made Gaim good. They still managed to shill the toys and it didn't impact the early plot that much.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

Post by Go-On Macaroni »

darkmage02 wrote:Ganma goes rampant on the world but does nothing more than slugging around making silly "oooooo" noises. Phantoms kill in a rather sadistic way - driving humans into despair so their inner phantoms will devour them. And Igor's experiments are stupid and he's lesser a threat than a MOTW.
Eh, still doesn't change that they were nerfed in-universe though. Prop them up all you want, but that won't change.
(It's not something like Agito where Overlord didn't care how many people got killed, they just couldn't kill anyone without psychic powers... no, White Wizard just forbid it all and that was dumb).
darkmage02 wrote:Ehh I didn't say Faiz was the better than the Showas. It has its problems. And I'm talking about Heisei. Why bring in the Showa?
You said "the show as a whole dabbled on what it means to be a human and a monster, and some twisted fuck characters. More than the simpleton characters and plot Ghost has to offer." to which I replied as to say "That's true but, it's not original for doing that; these did it too".
So desperate to make a case for Ghost? Lol
Haha, I'm not desperate to do anything; I'm just enjoying the discussion.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 36

Post by darkmage02 »

Go-On Macaroni wrote:Eh, still doesn't change that they were nerfed in-universe though. Prop them up all you want, but that won't change.
(It's not something like Agito where Overlord didn't care how many people got killed, they just couldn't kill anyone without psychic powers... no, White Wizard just forbid it all and that was dumb).
Your argument is going no where lol. Pointing out the problems of other series doesn't change the fact that Ghost is a real shitty show with shitty monsters, shitty plot and shitty villains.

Go-On Macaroni wrote:You said "the show as a whole dabbled on what it means to be a human and a monster, and some twisted fuck characters. More than the simpleton characters and plot Ghost has to offer." to which I replied as to say "That's true but, it's not original for doing that; these did it too".
HAHAHA neither did I say what Faiz did was original. Even within the Heisei series Agito raised that question before Faiz did. It wasn't original, but it's still better than Ghost. Are you telling me you're enjoying what Ghost has to offer now?

Go-On Macaroni wrote:Haha, I'm not desperate to do anything; I'm just enjoying the discussion.
Lol bring something valid to the table for discussion pls kthxbai
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