Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by godstriker8 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:39 pm

Yeah, and I didn't think it could get much worse than Wizard. All the other flawed series usually had something going for them. I really can't think of a single "high" point in this show that makes it worthwhile. At least Wizard had awesome choreography.

And don't even suggest that Hibiki was bad, it was great until the 30s where it became okay.

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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by BIGH1001 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:12 am

Although i haven't seen all the KR series. Out of the series that i have seen, it's a tie between this and fourze. Fourze was way too happy go lucky. And a lot of comparisons between Gentarou and Takeru can be drawn. I.e. a great care for friends and the value of life. We need another series like OOO. That had good pacing, an interesting story, as well as more or less fully fleshed-out characters. But i think the real question is. Will Ex-Aid move away from the Super Happy Fun Time formula? I honestly think for the grand scheme of things, the answer is no. The other riders may be the source of better characters, but unless the series pulls some skynet-esqe thing out of a hat, we will have another Super Happy Fun Time series meant to appeal to a far younger audience. Just look at Ex-Aid level 1 to see my point.

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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Kogashi » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:29 pm

I, hate to put it this way cause a lot of this is opinions and harder to shape factual explanations to weigh pro and con between different people and their views of different shows... but why are people slamming the good shows when saying 'yea I can see now that Ghost sucks.' Issues about how one feels about the main characters aside, the main characters of Kuuga and Fourze had a specific type and arc, even if small, to them that stayed true to their characters as well as the events. Where was Takeru, had (in my view) no real character to him, never mind an arc to stay true to. He had at best, a hobby, IE his obsession with historical luminaries. Outside of that he was a mess of reactions and contradictions all dependent on where the writers needed him to be for what they felt would maximize the drama of the series. He is a helpful youth who puts others before himself except when he is solely concerned bout his own well being despite it being after he had already died twice now before. He is one of unending willful endurance... except those times that when things are slightly hard he instantly gives up.

I admit I haven't watched Kuuga yet but I can say for Fourze, where he might seem one dimensional because he is always the cheerful semi-delinquent, always with a smile of his face, reaching his hand out to others, and ready to punch people to do so. However since the whole show was themed around friendship and readiness to go out of his way, even getting basically killed, to reach his hand out to others in friendship. Also he stayed true to this as his character through out. You can argue till you're blue in the face about 'oh but that's not how real humans are' and that's another topic all together, but when you're watching a show/movie/what have you, especially when made for younger audiences, it's just unsatisfying for the character's attitude and approach to things to shift so quickly. They are free to, and in a good show should, run into moments when they should feel conflicted, question their character and beliefs, and maybe change from those conflicts... But all of Takeru's conflicts aren't asking 'what should I do' but more 'OH NO THIS IS BAD okay there's the solution right there, all better'. While a good show vs bad show will hinge a lot on people's preferences for certain stories or character types, or how much the same irk them, there is still such a thing as good writing and bad writing. I feel that Ghost actively has bad writing even outside of what tropes or characters you might like or not. I also feel that stuff like Fourze and Kuuga do not have actively bad writing.

Also, even with the whole staff changes done on the second half of Hibiki, if you hated it or just thought it was 'went from great to alright', it at least did not retcon enemy motivations and acted like the changed story was the story presented through out.
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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Go-On Macaroni » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:44 am

Kogashi wrote:Also, even with the whole staff changes done on the second half of Hibiki, if you hated it or just thought it was 'went from great to alright', it at least did not retcon enemy motivations and acted like the changed story was the story presented through out.
It didn't retcon enemy motivations (The Man and Woman were just blanks, what was to retcon?!?! :lol:) but, it did retcon some stuff from the heroes. Such as Zanki claiming his master was also named Zanki and wanting to give the name to Todoroki getting phased out when Shuki became Zanki's master instead, and the whole thing-ala-doo with Asumu wanting to become a doctor despite following Hibiki around the whole dang show (and there was no inkling beforehand that a doctor was what he wanted).

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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Kogashi » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:49 pm

But from what we saw it wasn't that big of a leap to assume that an Oni could take on the title of the one who trained them, or even changing their Oni name as they grow. As for Asumu not becoming an Oni... yea it's clear that wasn't the intent of the original writer but it's not a BAD ending to his arc considering it gives a far too rare answer of 'you don't have to be a super hero to make people proud'.
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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Mxylv » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:28 pm

Well, I came up with an idea of what it'd take to make Ghost a good show. Here's the basic breakdown:
  • Fix all the personalities (give Takeru his Surprise Future personality, rename Onari and have him act like a monk, give Shibuya/Narita/Kanon reasons to exist, and make Sennin stay as Edith)
  • Keep Grapefruit and take out Mugen entirely
  • Only show Bills the way Akari and the others see him (as a protagonist) throughout the show, then only reveal at the end that he was taken over by ganma
  • In the penultimate episode, genuinely kill off Makoto and have his clone take his place and have to learn how to be an older brother/friend
  • Throughout the final arc, have Edith get back to the Ganma world and assemble a team (including Ultima Edith, Aria, a handful of ganma and more) led by Jairo as a rebellion against Adel that escalates into a full-scale ganma civil war
Any thoughts?
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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Zychotic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:40 pm

Mxylv wrote:Well, I came up with an idea of what it'd take to make Ghost a good show. Here's the basic breakdown:
  • Fix all the personalities (give Takeru his Surprise Future personality, rename Onari and have him act like a monk, give Shibuya/Narita/Kanon reasons to exist, and make Sennin stay as Edith)
  • Keep Grapefruit and take out Mugen entirely
  • Only show Bills the way Akari and the others see him (as a protagonist) throughout the show, then only reveal at the end that he was taken over by ganma
  • In the penultimate episode, genuinely kill off Makoto and have his clone take his place and have to learn how to be an older brother/friend
  • Throughout the final arc, have Edith get back to the Ganma world and assemble a team (including Ultima Edith, Aria, a handful of ganma and more) led by Jairo as a rebellion against Adel that escalates into a full-scale ganma civil war
Any thoughts?
I would have liked the Surprise Future personality, but it was a bit too creepy for the kids. I agree with the second point, Grateful would have been better as a final form than Mugen, but I think Mugen came in just to sell todays. Point 3, yes, awesome. Point 4, I actually thought that was what was going to happen. Point 5, would have been cool to watch but is probably too much to do on a production level.

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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Kurokage X » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:05 am

Mxylv wrote:Well, I came up with an idea of what it'd take to make Ghost a good show. Here's the basic breakdown:
  • Fix all the personalities (give Takeru his Surprise Future personality, rename Onari and have him act like a monk, give Shibuya/Narita/Kanon reasons to exist, and make Sennin stay as Edith)
  • Keep Grapefruit and take out Mugen entirely
  • Only show Bills the way Akari and the others see him (as a protagonist) throughout the show, then only reveal at the end that he was taken over by ganma
  • In the penultimate episode, genuinely kill off Makoto and have his clone take his place and have to learn how to be an older brother/friend
  • Throughout the final arc, have Edith get back to the Ganma world and assemble a team (including Ultima Edith, Aria, a handful of ganma and more) led by Jairo as a rebellion against Adel that escalates into a full-scale ganma civil war
Any thoughts?
That plot sounds a lot better and much more awesome
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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by kangchan » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:49 am

I heard my friend in Japan said that KR Ghost is successful series in Japan, with attract older audiences watched due to its drama story. So Kamen Rider (and Super Sentai) is created for Japanese's taste, not for foreign audiences, and that's why although Ghost is bad in foreign people, ths series still has 50 episodes and a lot of special and spin-off.

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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Lunagel » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:46 pm

Maybe your friend liked it but I still see a lot of chatter on 2chan about it being bad

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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Kogashi » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:49 pm

Wait... ... OLDER audience like this junk? Do you mean grown ass adults? or a buncha middle school kids who think they are the most important person in the world?
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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Lunagel » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:37 pm

When I was looking at the reactions to the announcement of the Specter V-Cinema most of the comments were "Aww man, don't do this, do another Gaim one!"

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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Jehal » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:06 am

Go-On Macaroni wrote: the whole thing-ala-doo with Asumu wanting to become a doctor despite following Hibiki around the whole dang show (and there was no inkling beforehand that a doctor was what he wanted).
I preferred that, honestly. Asumu showed signs of becoming a better person, but not becoming a stronger person until that arc came around. This is why I liked Kyousuke; his character development may have been a little rushed to fit in, but from start to finish he developed as the kind of person to become an Oni.
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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by Catastrophe » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:15 pm

I can't say it's the worst series. I didn't enjoy it for sure. I feel like there was almost too much shit going down at any one time. Why the hell does Deep Connect need to be set up and dragged on for so long and all that crap.

Ah. Oh well. Onwards and upwards.

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Re: Is Ghost the worst Kamen Rider series ever?

Post by dancercotillion » Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:34 pm

Ghost was just vague, confused, and poorly paced. I wonder if the production was troubled, because it feels like the show was being pulled in multiple directions and no clear heading at all. I've said in episode threads here and there that Ghost seems to have changed its core idea more than once, which just muddies the themes and stories more and more. Like, in the end, what did we discover? Takeru was actually dead this whole time, and he was the only person in the entire series in that situation?

In the end, though, there was something about human potential that they finally latched into and I thought it was a nice theme to finally go with. Not enough to redeem it, because it was a fundamentally flawed series, but enough to say it didn't end as a complete waste of time. I doubt I'll ever try to watch Ghost again down the road, however.
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