Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

G-g-ghosts?!
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How do you like KR Ghost?

Poll ended at Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:28 am

☆☆☆☆☆ Transcendent
9
9%
☆☆☆☆ Great Caeser's Ghost
16
16%
☆☆☆ G-g-ghost?!
35
35%
☆☆ Better call a Ghost Buster
20
20%
☆ Better off dead
19
19%
 
Total votes: 99
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by 453145 »

My main problem with Ghost is that we have like ten episodes to the show's finale and nothing has been explained. The show has a lot of sub-plots that made the show confusing

The characters can be resumed with just simple phrases:
1.Takeru: Life burning bright stuff.
2.Akari: Science explain everything
3.Onari: Wasted potential since Javert's appeareance and an annoying comic relief.
4.Makoto: Vacation guy
5.Kanon: Oniichan/Alain-sama
6.Shibuya and Narita: There's a paranormal phenomen

The villains are boring since Alain became good. And the fights are full of inconsistency, sometimes they establish something to be dropped in the next episode (Edison horns).

The cast is really large but no one seems fully developed. When they have development, they are comic relief in the next episode. Also a lot of characters dissapear and there's no explaination where they went, like Javert and Alia.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by Ashki »

While I tend to be more generous on individual episode ratings (even 38, where I rated it an entire "1"), the series as a whole gets a 3 from me.

The Pros:
I really liked Mooto at first.
Early Alain was a great villain, even if his costume looks like a rejected design for the illigitimate love child of Kamen Rider X and Birth.
It looks like Adel might actually become a threat.
Onari's silliness belies a darker past, and he has proven to pull through when it counts.
The face slaps.

The Cons:
They keep ALMOST making Kanon a functional character... but then not.
Mokoto and Alain have both lost their point, although Mooto does have an occasional good scene still.
The show has gone from a wonderfully dark potential to one of the lightest, most (horribly) comedic series.
The plot tends to drag, flter, and forget it even exists at times.
Takeru is immortal, removing all of the danger from the show.

That said, I still sorta like the show, and feel it could get better. Unlike Drive, I don't have to rely upon a single character (Chase) to choke down the garbage every week until the last couple (actually good) episodes. I just hope that it ends on a strong note, because I have enjoyed every Rider series for one reason or another [except Drive... and Hibiki, if you can even call it Kamen Rider and not "filler series labeled KR when the KR writers complained they had no ideas for that year" (which it was... the show was pitched as an independant toku and adopted into KR)]. I see some potential peekking through the fog with next week's preview, but as for whether or not the show will live or disappear, well... "There are only 9 episodes remaining".
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by eijiman »

By the way, now i think i've realised what is wrong with Ghost, and its a pretty simple thing, they exagerated.

Akari: A science fanatic.
Onari: An exagerated buffoon.
Kanon: Depends on Alain and Makoto for existing. And i don't mean about being saved, but the fact that everything she does and says is about them, she is like an extension of those two.
Ghost: Overpowered
Takeru: A goody two shoes.
Igor: way too misterious and way too obsessed.
Old man: he could be hiding something, but he is always playing the fool, making lame jokes and such.
Two guys who i can't remember their names: Way too insignificant. they can be taken out of the show and no one would notice.

Makoto and Alain are fine.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by Go-On Macaroni »

eijiman wrote:By the way, now i think i've realised what is wrong with Ghost, and its a pretty simple thing, they exagerated.
Welcome to post Den-O rider, enjoy your stay? XD Personally, I never found Ghost as overly comedic as something like Drive or Wizard got but, that's getting subjective as it is.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by RuneDragon1985 »

I'm coming up on 30 episodes at the moment (I've been letting it go, kind of like what I did with Gaim, I started it late, binged and caught up to it) and in so far, I'm actually kind of enjoying the series. Granted, it has some flaws and plot holes, (like Ghost used to turn invisible when transforming, but now he's just visible to everyone alive?) but they're minor and worth overlooking at the moment.

I want to honestly point out that Onari is basically the best thing so far. He is legitimately funny, even though he comes off as annoying and rather a hindrance towards the beginning. But in later episodes, I find him the absolute delight. His actor is really good. I've noticed him making the slightest, subtle reactions, and it just makes his characters. He's not chewing scenery, and he really puts a lot into his acting.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by Kogashi »

I am, going to sound really weird saying this... ... my favorite parts of this show are Akari's and Onari's growth as characters. I am not even kidding, Akari forging ahead and using science to examine and explain what is happening, even the paranormal, and Onari's efforts to be a better example of a monk (as well as his rocker cosplay)... They have been the silver lining to this series. Which is sad. I think, I want to say I start having doubts about this series the episode after introducing specter, when there was a month long jump in the countdown... And then I really started to hate this show when Takeru got boost. Not to say the show didn't have good episodes between those points, or even after he got boost. But my trust and enjoyment of it crumbled to bits when Takeru's time runs out, he dies, and he's just... given a mulligan, after we had skipped like half his time left on earth either between episodes, or that two week long montage of Takeru just having given up hopes of finding the last eyecons.

Now let's talk about Takeru... There is no character to him. He is not, in my view as a wanna be screenwriter, really a character or even a personality. He's a goody-two shoes... except when he just shrugs off other people for his own interests. He cares about others, except when he doesn't and thinks they're just wasting his time. He wants to learn more about the eyecons and what his father was doing... or least he says he does and never actually tries to learn it and just waits for Sage or a friend of his father's to tell him. He's a confident boy coming into adulthood with unwavering belief... ... only not. Takeru is uninteresting, at times unsympathetic, and comes off, to me anyways, as a bit of a jerk not in the sense of 'let's make a lovable jerk with a heart of gold underneath' way but in a 'you didn't even notice that by doing that he seems like a jerk did you?' manner.

And then, comes the inconsistencies. Now, I'm an old hand at watching Toku, I've seen my fair share, character strengths not being consistent, that's not really new and most times I can enjoy the show despite that. What drives me up the wall, is the theme inconsistencies, or the lore inconsistencies, or how we are told things but they do not seem to ever fit in to the plot in relations to that. But most annoyingly of all, in a show with such a focus on historical figures, the historical inconsistencies. They either reshape the figure's history, like saying Musashi's duel was when he was 18, to try and force it in to lining up with Takeru, or so blunt out specifics about the figures to make complex and interesting individuals kinda bland and generic. I am not against tweeking aspects of a historical figure to fit better into a preferred narrative, after all I am a big fan of the Fate/Stay Night franchise. But that is not what I'm getting from this series, I feel. Instead I'm getting kind of generic 'loyalty! faith! friendship! DREAMS!' speeches from figures who, in their own history, were complex individuals whose actions came to change how we think of those platitudes. And that's leaving out the, I'm sure not intentional, bashing of other historical figures by having the ganmas be themed around other figures, be they viewed as villains or not in actual history.

Then there's the ganmas themselves and the ganma world. I've said it before, but often times, between the people's words, actions, and descriptions we get, it feels, trying to understand the ganma world, like their part of the story was written by three different writers each with their own ideas for what message they wanted to present, but none of them talking to each other while working on the scenes. I am sure at least one of these theoretical writers was trying to present a contradictory world, believing themselves to be perfect and peaceful but the world seeming dead and the family constantly caught in boughts of infighting, but I do not think they were aware of how of how stupid their execution of this idea came off, at least to me. Especially with the reveal in episode 39, that Adonis's ideal of a perfect world, did not involved invading the human world, and yet there being NO ANSWER TO THEN WHY WAS HE INVADING THE HUMAN WORLD!?

And then, comes one of the most nitpicky of issues, the editing and the music. The editing, in far too many episodes, gets so caught up in making sure we see that everyone single member of the cast is doing something, that we barely get time to really feel anything from it. It will jump, rapidly, between 4 or 5 different story threads in the episode withing the span of 2 minutes, and it just becomes a salad of people running down alleyways or saying 'what should I do' that there's little time to breath... as for the music. One of the things that caught my attention more than a few times, was that this series did not have the standard character or form songs a Kamen Rider show tends to have for their battles. Near all the fights solely play a theme for Ghost, or a theme for Specter, and when it's a dramatic enough (I say with air quotes) fight, we play the opening theme... This just brings me down to be honest, since a lotta times, a show could keep me watching just so I could hear the fight theme in the up coming battle, as well as the themes helping to build a sense of the characters... but that I think is the problem... there ISN'T any character to build a sense around these Riders.

anyways... ... yea... that's, that's why I dislike Kamen Rider ghost so far... granted I've only seen up to episode 39 as of this point but... I think that's, pretty detailed and I don't see them pulling a hat trick and making the last 11 episodes the best thing ever. As it stands now, this is my most disliked Rider series.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by Go-On Macaroni »

Kogashi wrote:it feels, trying to understand the ganma world, like their part of the story was written by three different writers each with their own ideas for what message they wanted to present, but none of them talking to each other while working on the scenes.
For fairness' sake: Takuro Fukuda (the head writer) didn't write anything between episodes 29-38 potentially because he was writing the movie and movie shorts. (He then came back to the show and wrote 39-40 (the body swap arc) but then "left" again leaving Hasegawa and Mouri to take up the slack.

(Writers leaving to go work on the movies is/are nothing new but, 10 weeks? Still wow and that's if it was for the movie)
One of the things that caught my attention more than a few times, was that this series did not have the standard character or form songs a Kamen Rider show tends to have for their battles. Near all the fights solely play a theme for Ghost, or a theme for Specter, and when it's a dramatic enough (I say with air quotes) fight, we play the opening theme...
Neither did Kuuga or Hibiki fwiw, those got vocal songs on CD but they never played in the actual show.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by Kogashi »

Kuuga I haven't watched yet, to my frustration, and Hibiki well... First half had such a non-traditional approach to the series that it's use instead of hero melodies and tunes made sense... and the second half of Hibiki was such a mess I didn't notice the lack of traditional fight songs.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by Catastrophe »

Drive didn't use insert songs all that often either. I can remember off the top of my head a few occasions, but even Gaim before it was more like the previous series in usage.

A shame. Good insert songs always make the battle in question more memorable.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by BIGH1001 »

Considering it's about to end, i may as well put my 2 bob in.
Anyways, the whole show can be described as mediocre with a couple good plot points sprinkled in here and there. Takeru is too goodie goodie two shoes, instantly forgiving anything; I bet he will even forgive Adel for killing his dad. Onari honestly isn't even good enough of a priest to be considered a bad one. Kanon... enough said. Alain has been reduced to cannon fodder status. And Sennin/Eadith is just there for a little bit of exposition every now and again. The best characters by far are Makoto and Akari. They both have some sort of multi-dimensioning to their characters and are actually useful. Makoto should've been the main protagonist, he's just a better character all around.

As for the plot, it had a few interesting components, like the ganma's life preservation. But overall is just dragged out at this point. And i'm fairly certain everyone is sick of Adel's bratty conduct.

And I fear Ex-Aid will suffer the same fate. I'll personally be watching old heisei series until amazons S2 comes out.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by Mxylv »

Well, it's basically the end of the series, so it's time for a more complete review:

When I started this series, I had hardly any interest in it at all. I was basically just looking for a way to keep active in the forum. This was my first time watching a rider series from start to finish (let alone in real time), so I don’t have much to compare it to, but here we go (spoiler tagging due to large amounts of text):

The arcs:
Spoiler
I really wasn’t a fan of the first arc. Makoto was a pretty neat character, and Saionji was an interesting antagonist, but most of it was just Luminary of the Week. It had its high points, but I felt like I was waiting for the story to kick in rather than enjoying the episodes themselves.

I enjoyed the Toucon arc a lot better. Alain/Necrom was a great antagonist, Fumi-baa was a great character, Igor had not yet become comic relief, and the reveals about Edith, Adonis, and perhaps best of all, the Ganma world as a flawed idea of a perfect world were fantastic.

Grateful was the other high point for me. Alain’s continued conversion thanks to Fumi-baa, Grateful itself, Edith, and the moments in the ganma world (particularly Adonis’ death) made the arc quite unforgettable.

Mugen… things kinda slid apart there. I define its decline as beginning with Takeru’s (3rd) death, which had a wonderful concept but weak execution. Since then, much of the show was bogged down with random humor (usually from Onari and Sennin), a weak villain, and a general lack of interesting heroes—or interesting characters at all (although I did like the Makoto arc). It had some good points, but in my opinion, it slipped down to being okay--if even that.


The characters:
Spoiler
I’ve heard that Takeru was originally supposed to be darker and more mysterious, so I can see if they didn’t have a fully fleshed out personality for him after hearing they needed to change him. As it is, Takeru’s self-assured, cheery personality with a desire to make friends doesn’t leave me with any impression. Admittedly, though, this does have a plus: moments when Takeru’s shocked or angry are well more powerful than they’d be if he got angry more frequently.

Akari is a pretty good character (by the end of the series, by any case), with a useful and supportive role. However, Onari was doomed from the start, as it turns out. He’s a little better than he was at first, but even near the end he’s still used for comic relief. Shibuya, Narita and Kanon existed because the plot required them at first, and the writers were rather stuck with them for the rest of the series.

Makoto is possibly my favorite character, with an iron will and a serious approach to situations. Alain was a great villain and he was also great while he was searching for meaning, but after his redemption, he was a bit stuck: the writers had told the story they’d wanted to tell with him, so there wasn’t much for him personality-wise.

Adonis was a great character, partially because he actually notably thought that what he was doing was right. Igor also started out well, with a cold, calculative mind that couldn’t comprehend emotion, but he unfortunately slipped into a comic relief character who generally only showed up to be slapped by Akari. Adel, however, had no particular personality (which was part of what I think dragged the Mugen arc down, as he was one of the only villains left).

I really didn’t care for Sennin, who would not help the issue of random and fairly meaningless humor, so I think a part of why I liked the Toucon and Grateful arcs was his more serious while still mysterious side, Edith. If his Sennin side were actually his Edith side in disguise and not the other way around, I think Mugen would have gone better for me.


Also, it's a bit odd to mention this bit, but I have a few issues with the opening theme:
Spoiler
The theme, “We Think Therefore We Are,” is pretty upbeat, but while its title implies a philosophical notion, the first few lines reveal that it’s more of a love song (which seems like a really odd choice for a Kamen Rider opening). However, this barely scratches the surface of my issues with it: the ending of the theme solidifies it as a theme that is not at all an appropriate opening for this show. The song partially closes with “you only have one shot at life,” while Takeru gains four throughout the series. One would put into question why lyrics like that were actually selected for a show about a ghost.

Perhaps it was chosen because of its carefree nature, summed up by the line following it: “so live it your way!” However, while this ties in to Alain’s listening to the call of his heart, doing just this caused Adel to kill his father and Takeru’s. While the last episode implies that Adel’s heart was “killed by ideals” (so good guys should be amoral?), the paradox is never fully resolved to my memory, nor even brought up very often. The final line also seems like a strange choice for a show that’s theoretically about selfless heroes.


Overall, the show was okay. The first arc was largely MotW, the Toucon and Grateful arcs had some of the best episodes in there and had many character arcs, and the Mugen arc was fairly weak in comparison, with all the interesting characters either not appearing or having dissolved into less interesting, usually comedic roles (in my opinion, though, it was still more entertaining than the first arc).

Favorite episodes: 16 (introduction of Necrom), 20 (introduction of Edith), 22 (the truth about the ganma world), 23 (introduction of Grateful), 27 (Alain learns the truth about the ganma world), and 49 (the main story's finale).
Favorite suits: Grateful (followed by Necrom).
Other notes: "My lack of life is burning bright!"
Last edited by Mxylv on Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by mholden020 »

mholden020 wrote:I voted with "I can change this later" in mind, but I give it a 4/5 so far. The opening arc to get the 15 eyecons was brilliant, but they really yanked the handbrake after that...How much I like this show is going to depend on the final story arc and what happens. I'm hoping they pull the same stunt they did early in the series and end on a very high note, but there is a lot that needs to be covered to get there.
It's fun to go back and see what you thought of a year-long series around the halfway point! I remember also saying in one of the episode topics that I'd keep giving the show 5 stars if they kept doing what they were doing in the first arc, but the show fell so far from that point, I have a hard time believe it was even the same show. I haven't seen the 49th episode yet, but I'm pretty confident that what was shown at the end of #48 won't be enough to alter my opinion on the show as a whole. That is, unless everything got retconned and this was all a massive joke from Decade...I can hope right? :lol:

I marathoned all of the KR series (except for Kuuga) and got caught up to present about 10 episodes into Ghost, so most of the series are fresh in my mind. I can't think of a single series that started off so strong then effectively tripped over their shoelaces before the mid-point. Hibiki might be close, but that included a complete staff change so I don't know if it would be in the running for the same honor. Honestly, I think they really screwed themselves in the first Revival arc by packing it all into 15 (i think?) episodes. Once that was done, there were 35 episodes to basically do the same thing, and it grew too drawn out and too tangled in its own mess to live up to what it started with. I still have no idea what Bills was on the show for, Igor was annoying at the best times, and we still have no idea who those twins are (unless it was explained in a movie...)! Yurusen was awesome, but it's impossible to sit an entire show on those little shoulders.

Put simply, there were two moments when I knew this show had lost me:
1) Seiji Takaiwa appears out-of-suit and my first thoughts weren't "Well damn, he's not a bad actor", but instead, "Okay, I can't wait to see how he fights Ghost LOL."
2) The start of episode 48 when even I didn't know which Makoto was which, and frankly didn't really care.

I'm willing to bet Ghost is another of the shows that is much better when the whole series is viewed over a short period of time. Doing that has made Goseiger and Wizard shows that I rather enjoyed despite weak stories, and I honestly think it's because the lower points of the show aren't drawn out over a long period, but instead last maybe a few days before something exciting happens. For Ghost, we had 15 or so straight weeks of WOO!! and then the show fell apart, producing about 7 months of almost nothing. I said it would keep getting a 5-star rating unless something happened, and something did happen, so Ghost gets a 1-star.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by Go-On Macaroni »

mholden020 wrote:For Ghost, we had 15 or so straight weeks of WOO!! and then the show fell apart, producing about 7 months of almost nothing.
Yeah but, those 15 weeks were also mostly just a barrage of toy sales, similar to Gaim's first dancing arc where we had new riders and lockseeds every week. I mean, if you liked that then hey cool, but out of what I've observed, the first cour of Rider shows kinda don't seem to have much actual substance nowadays; just there to please Bandai.

Like, I dunno, I wasn't sitting there going "WOO!!" as much as I was waiting for the actual show to start. XP
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by Kogashi »

And with those episodes of new Riders and Lockseeds what was presented were actually expanded upon. That slew of new riders in the first arc of Gaim was actually set up for the important stuff to come... Less so with the seed side I admit. But that might be my bias in liking Gaim.
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Re: Poll: What's your opinion of Kamen Rider Ghost?

Post by mholden020 »

Go-On Macaroni wrote:
mholden020 wrote:For Ghost, we had 15 or so straight weeks of WOO!! and then the show fell apart, producing about 7 months of almost nothing.
Yeah but, those 15 weeks were also mostly just a barrage of toy sales, similar to Gaim's first dancing arc where we had new riders and lockseeds every week. I mean, if you liked that then hey cool, but out of what I've observed, the first cour of Rider shows kinda don't seem to have much actual substance nowadays; just there to please Bandai.

Like, I dunno, I wasn't sitting there going "WOO!!" as much as I was waiting for the actual show to start. XP
I wasn't literally sitting here yelling "WOO!" but the first arc never had an episode where things came to a halt like they have in the second half of the show. They packed in the toys, yes, but those actually had a story-related reason for each one. He had to get all 15 to come back to life, so they were introduced quickly and had meaning to the overall story. It wasn't like the Grapefruit form.
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