KR Icihgou the Movie released

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Ratings

Poll ended at Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:17 am

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6
32%
☆☆☆☆
5
26%
☆☆☆
4
21%
☆☆
2
11%
2
11%
 
Total votes: 19
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Mxylv
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by Mxylv »

I was just wondering before watching: does the movie have any big spoilers for the 1971 series (and if so, is it worth watching that series)? Thanks!
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by gourdcaptain »

Mxylv wrote:I was just wondering before watching: does the movie have any big spoilers for the 1971 series (and if so, is it worth watching that series)? Thanks!
Not really on the spoiler angle (it mentions some characters exist and a villain died, that's about it). The problem with watching '71 Rider is that there isn't a complete sub of that series. Having seen some of the incomplete sub out there, it's an interestingly experimental series as they figure out what Rider is going to be and how to do it, and Hongo's situation is pretty well handled dramatically for a show of the era... Until Fukuoka got badly hurt and they have to replace him for the rest of the subbed episodes.

I would suggest Amazon as a good Showa sampler series if you haven't seen any. It's fairly short, consistently entertaining, and the actors are pretty charming. It's also fairly stand alone. Mind you, it gets goofy as heck, but that's all Toku to a degree, Showa especially.

Edit:
takenoko wrote:Oh yeah, I liked Nago too actually. I hated him at first, but he actually has a character arc. I guess that's the thing with quirky characters, either they really work out or they really don't. That said, I like Nago for his overly straightlaced character, not because he had a silly button fetish.

I was thinking about doing a think piece about Toku Writers and Directors and just talking in general about them, since I get a sense that a lot of people don't recognize who's who. Although, maybe that's more than what people want to know from these type of shows.
His over seriousness is part of what makes him so great, combined with his instability. I'd be interested in that article given I try to do a lot of armchair analysis of the influence of writers and directors on series given patterns in the shows and what's written online, but I'm limited by there not being a lot in English on this topic online.
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by TankCoyote »

so, how did Ichigo get that bulky AF costume? That looked really painful to watch because it looked like he downgraded a la Booster Gold of DC when his future suit got shredded and Blue Beetle II made him a bloated version to try and replicate the power and strength. The Driver looked slipshod as well and the Neo Cyclone looked like Black's Road Sector got stung by a swarm of bees.
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by Kurokage X »

It's an okay movie for me, Ghost's cast did felt superfluous but since they're there because they were supposed to be I guess. Definitely should have been an answer for why Hongo is having heart problems before and gain his upgraded super suit, it did look badass though. Mayu definitely should have been his daughter as oppose to being Tachibana's grandkid.

Nova Shocker's plans should have been through legal actions if they wanted to be the greatest corporation on Earth. Black mailers are what they were. Makes them look like a company filled with ambition but with crap execution by executives thinking moronically.
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by takenoko »

The heart problem was implied to just be a side effect of the constant wear and tear he goes through from living a life of non-stop fighting. That's why I was super into his dying subplot, since it seemed very human, sad, and heroic.
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by Ashki »

Kurokage X wrote:Definitely should have been an answer for why Hongo is having heart problems before and gain his upgraded super suit, it did look badass though.
Long-time Showa fans would have understood much of this instinctively, and modern kids probably don't care, so they kind of left those in the middle guessing. :roll:

Pretty much all of the Showa-era Riders (we're ignoring the stand-alone movies here) were cyborgs. Riderman was the least modified with the pssible exception of Amazon who is officially a cyborg but always struck me as an organic Rider. The first four Riders all had some major flaws. Ichigō and Nigō had numerous flaws (during his brief time abroad. Ichigō was upgraded to match Nigō's specs). V3 was a major improvement with his infamous number of special abilities, and was modified by the first two to have their perks with fewer flaws. Riderman's body was only partially converted to replace lost limbs. Ichigō has died a couple times in the past 45 years, and each time was brought back by the other Riders. Riderman and Nigō have also been killed and were resurrected to continue fighting.

Over the past decade, Ichigō, Nigō and V3 have all had "upgrades" off-screen (thanks to the new designs carried over from The First and The Next). With Hongou having been away from Japan for the past 3 years (excluding any brief movie appearances), he's likely had a major upgrade with Neo Cyclone having been built to order. It's certainly more powerful than its predecessor, and I'm betting the bulk is to store all the extra fuel he needs to power that baby. Probably has onboard rockets as well, judging by the new console.

The thing about Hongou is that his body has been using the same internal components for 45 years. Machines break down, and while he can withstand lethal voltage, it was never stated that his heart is fully artificial. Even if it is, you have to maintenance an engine to keep it running, especially one which pumps actual human blood. The biomechanical body has simply broken down to the point of systems failure. His resurrection (which is actually reflecting a limited ability of the old Shocker models to use the turbine to recharge a Rider's internal systems) was par for the course, but I feel something was lost that didn't come back. Note how emotionless he was at first - literally just the machine. Only later did he regain much of his personality, but even then, it felt something had been lost. Ichigō was more like a computer using a memory backup than it was the Hongou we'd seen prior.

One of the things that struck me most about this movie was that it felt we were saying goodbye. Sure, Ichigō will return, but Fujioka has been playing Hongou on and off for 45 years (and I swear he's a cyborg himself... he's barely aged as Hongou!), and I couldn't help but feel like that original Hongou really did die. Fujioka's slightly more aloof nature after the resurrection said "This is it, this is the true Hongou's final bow, and we're being prepared for a new actor to take up the mantle permanently". Thus the ending was really sad for me, and the Ambassadore's pleading really underlines this feeling of loss. "Hongou, don't leave! Please give our story closure, because there will never be another chance for us to do so."


On a more technical note, while the armour upgrade can be granted the same excuse as Hongou's original upgrade, there was a much more practical reason for it. Fujioka is Ichigō. He's done his own stunts pretty much from Day 1. But he's gotten a little bulky, so they neede to do a Drive-movie-style revamp of the suit to fit him without looking silly. So yeah... eat it up because this will probably be the last time we'll ever see Ichigō fight like that. No suit actor will ever compare.

Go-On Macaroni wrote:Oh, maybe. The earlier line of "and Ghost cast getting Ghost writing aside (the writers once again forgot that Takeru is a ghost, not a zombie)" made me think he thought this had the same writers as the show (Inoue couldn't "once again" do anything due to well, y'know)... I'll understand if I misread it, though; it's late for me. XD
My point there was that the movie writers had a perfect oppourtunity to replicate the Ghost we met in Drive without contradicting the series (and there were no budget excuses this time). Instead, they chose to add a bunch of idiocy so the movie Ghost was every bit as terrible as the show. It's like grabbing Luke Skywalker from the beginning of Episode IV and dropping him in the final confrontation in Episode VI because you want to be faithful to the character of Luke Skywalker. Or, to put it in simple terms... the Ghost cast got Ghost writing. Had the show's writers been competant, the movie writers wouldn't have been afraid to develop the characters a little. I mean, this is why we lost Susan in The Dalek Invasion... the writers refused to let the character grow, so the actress quit.

Okay, enough of me throwing random references around... :lol:
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by 453145 »

takenoko wrote:Based on this movie's logic, I should change my name to Handsome McBigdick Livesforever.
You can call me Captain Saejima Tsukasa, inheritor of the title of Super Hyper Extreme Ultimate Infinity Makai Gokai Rider

Nice movie, at least was an improvement of the last ones, and let's be honest, the first Taisen was amazing even if its story didn't make sense because it was so impressive to see all those heroes and villains in the same place at the same time, the second one added the Metal Heroes and they worked together a lot of time instead of the typical "this was a plan" plot. But the new ones just seemed superfluos, since we see these kind of "wars" all the time the awesomeness factor has been lost, so a movie focused on an important character in the franchise is the best idea they could go with. And the movie actually cares about it, however I should say the obvious flaws and how I would change them:

-Use a provisional suit and make the new suit debut when he's resurrected
-Takeru is a ghost so he doesn't need to look like a stalker to spy Mayu
-Even if Takeru needed to be a teacher, wouldn't make more sense a History teacher?

Like all the last year rider movies, it seems like there was a bigger movie behind, but the screentime was not enough (I miss DC versions), and some of the director's desitions don't make sense, for example the part when the Ambassador was going to tell the girl's name and there was a cut, it seems dumb since we know who they are pursuing, it'd be better to make an scene where he is asked why and then the Amabassador smiles letting the audience intrigued of what was going to happen. Like this example there a lot of others, however the movie was good in general and I wouldn't care more of this, like Nigou, X or Black.

The Nova Shoker (Nova) was a good concept however the execution was so stupid, but I think that a so complex topic is just too dificult to fit in a movie, however I'd like to see in a series, being more explored and used.
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by JustiFanV2 »

I enjoyed the film more than I expected to, bar Sennin's karaoke antics. I do agree with the points about some of the transitions between scenes: the shift from the fight to Takeshi's funeral was particularly jarring and not handled in a way that would make me think "Oh damn he actually died!" More it's so sudden a change with no time to play the drama of it that you just figure "Oh they killed him in the space of about five seconds, well that's obviously not going to last for long so whatever..."

Most of other complaints I have are pretty much all nitpicks though. Like how come Mayu ran away from the bad guys all scared and defenceless the first time, yet didn't have a problem fighting them off later? Or why the first time did she weave in and out of the tables and thus slowing herself down, rather than just run away in a straight line like everybody else? Most of all: why Ichigou's new form had to be there all the way through the movie, with no explanation or mention of it - I feel it would've worked better if they stuck with his standard suit up to his death, then have the new form be something which was created through his resurrection.

Overall a good film though. I haven't seen any of the original KR series yet but this makes me want to start watching it more than ever so I can follow Takeshi's fight from the beginning. Can't really complain after realising that.
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by eijiman »

BTW i dont know but maybe it would have been cool if ichigo gained some fire powers, after all he absorved the fire with his belt, and if you remember Ichigo's power comes from the wind, so absorving fire could have given the excuse for a nuew power.
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by Ashki »

Personally, I'm glad he didn't get any new abilities, however brief. The Showa Riders totally wrecked their foes without any alternate forms or mid-season powerups. Yes, Black RX had his multiple forms, but they were simply abilities, not powerups. In a fair fight, the weakest of the Showa Riders could hold off an all-out by the ultimate form of the strongest Heisei Rider. Being a cyborg means being durable!

But seriously, Hongou picked up a random weapon in the first episode, and fought with whatever was at hand ever since. His Rider Punch and Rider Kick finishers were so OP that almost every Rider since has emulated them. Sure, it may seem boring to watch him beat the crap out of the enemy without any flashy pyrotechnics or illogically designed weapons, but that just underscores how much more powerful he is than his modern-day counterparts. I think if they sudenly gave him a new ability after 45 years and during what is meant to be a farewell would be a huge disservice.

I do like Gackt-Riderman's new plasma cannon arm, though. I really wish they'd sign him on to do a full Riderman series, especially after seeing Amazons...
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by TankCoyote »

Ashki wrote:Personally, I'm glad he didn't get any new abilities, however brief. The Showa Riders totally wrecked their foes without any alternate forms or mid-season powerups. Yes, Black RX had his multiple forms, but they were simply abilities, not powerups. In a fair fight, the weakest of the Showa Riders could hold off an all-out by the ultimate form of the strongest Heisei Rider. Being a cyborg means being durable!

But seriously, Hongou picked up a random weapon in the first episode, and fought with whatever was at hand ever since. His Rider Punch and Rider Kick finishers were so OP that almost every Rider since has emulated them. Sure, it may seem boring to watch him beat the crap out of the enemy without any flashy pyrotechnics or illogically designed weapons, but that just underscores how much more powerful he is than his modern-day counterparts. I think if they sudenly gave him a new ability after 45 years and during what is meant to be a farewell would be a huge disservice.

I do like Gackt-Riderman's new plasma cannon arm, though. I really wish they'd sign him on to do a full Riderman series, especially after seeing Amazons...
There's also the original power-up that Stronger had
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by arromdee »

takenoko wrote: Just have Hongou have a daughter, if that's the story you want to tell. Don't make him a foster parent for someone else's teenage daughter. Think about it, if he doesn't have time to raise a family because he's a hero, how does he find time to raise an adopted daughter? So you might as well just say fuck it, he's got a daughter. It doesn't ever come off as weird and uncomfortable, but it's very borderline.
1) Abandoning an actual daughter is a lot harder to forgive than just breaking a promise to look after someone.
2) Remember this is a series aimed at kids, and they might just not want to put parental abandonment in it.
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by takenoko »

That doesn't make any sense.

She's still basically his adopted daughter. Is it cool to abandon kids as long as they're not your own? Just a little more severe than "breaking a promise"? It's not like she's even an adult, either. If Takeshi left 2 years ago, then she was in middle school when she was abandoned? So 14 years old?
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by Ashki »

TankCoyote wrote:
Ashki wrote:Personally, I'm glad he didn't get any new abilities, however brief. The Showa Riders totally wrecked their foes without any alternate forms or mid-season powerups. Yes, Black RX had his multiple forms, but they were simply abilities, not powerups. In a fair fight, the weakest of the Showa Riders could hold off an all-out by the ultimate form of the strongest Heisei Rider. Being a cyborg means being durable!

But seriously, Hongou picked up a random weapon in the first episode, and fought with whatever was at hand ever since. His Rider Punch and Rider Kick finishers were so OP that almost every Rider since has emulated them. Sure, it may seem boring to watch him beat the crap out of the enemy without any flashy pyrotechnics or illogically designed weapons, but that just underscores how much more powerful he is than his modern-day counterparts. I think if they sudenly gave him a new ability after 45 years and during what is meant to be a farewell would be a huge disservice.

I do like Gackt-Riderman's new plasma cannon arm, though. I really wish they'd sign him on to do a full Riderman series, especially after seeing Amazons...
There's also the original power-up that Stronger had
True, and Black also had his power-up gloves. The key is that their power-ups weren't game-breaking or there just to sell toys. Stronger got.. well... stronger for a time. Black's gloves changed colour. Compare that to Ghost having a recolour form, Grapefuit form, Infinity form, plus modded forms for each Luminary, each of which had its own gimmic and design quirks. That's technically 48 different forms, with 47 being powerups or special ability forms. :roll:

In a sense, even Ichigō could power up using wind. But those powerups were done more subtly or (as in the case of Stronger) as an essential feature of that Rider. Heisei Riders have powerups to sell toys, and many are used only once and then forgotten. Giving Hongo a new powerup would have given future Heisei writers an excuse to screw with one of the most beloved characters in tokusatsu and bog him down with cheap gimmicks.
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by arromdee »

I am pretty certain that the typical method of holding funerals in Japan is not to burn the body on a pyre. I can't think of any reason they'd do that aside from having read the script.
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