KR Icihgou the Movie released

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Ratings

Poll ended at Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:17 am

☆☆☆☆☆
6
32%
☆☆☆☆
5
26%
☆☆☆
4
21%
☆☆
2
11%
2
11%
 
Total votes: 19

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by takenoko » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:02 am

I don't know if Gouraigan works for me, even as a comedy. I wasn't expecting a hero show, I just wanted an entertaining one. I guess I feel like Inoue's humor is a bit juvenile, even for me.

I totally forgot Takeru's only 18. I guess that fact slipped out of my mind when he decided to play teacher. I guess part of it was I just wanted to have something shocking to say about that bit.

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by Blackcondorguy » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:50 pm

I loved 555, but maybe I'm biased beacause it was the first Heisei Rider show I watched after years of Showa Era stuff, and I was blown away. Still, with all its flaw (which I mainly blame on production), it did have undeniably great moments.

I don't know if you would get into Jetman, it's hard to get back to the Showa stuff when you're used to modern sentai, especially if thoses old series have no nostalgia value to you. I get that those kind of viewers wouldn't like Liveman or Maskman, who were pretty good stuff for their time. There is a lot to say about Toku history but I won't bother you with it now. The point is, Jetman went a few step ahead of previous sentai series, as did Dairanger, and they paved the way to the modern shows that are generally better in terms of pacing, story and character. So, put in context, Jetman was a huge thing, and a very good series. Maybe Inoue is like John Byrne in American comics, i.e he was really edgy back in the day but had big trouble following the evolution of the medium. Lately, everything he does is dated and lame.

That said, I think the sexism issue is totally valid, even back in the day. If you take Jetman as an example, Gai is a complete sexist and totally gets away with it. Worse, it's shown as cool. Then again, those are Japanese shows, and Japan doesn't seem like the most progressive place regarding those issues. Which doesn't make it right all.

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by eijiman » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:29 pm

So are you telling me that the guy who wrote Jetman also made this? wow, i would have never guessed it.
Blackcondorguy wrote:I loved 555, but maybe I'm biased beacause it was the first Heisei Rider show I watched after years of Showa Era stuff, and I was blown away. Still, with all its flaw (which I mainly blame on production), it did have undeniably great moments.

I don't know if you would get into Jetman, it's hard to get back to the Showa stuff when you're used to modern sentai, especially if thoses old series have no nostalgia value to you. I get that those kind of viewers wouldn't like Liveman or Maskman, who were pretty good stuff for their time. There is a lot to say about Toku history but I won't bother you with it now. The point is, Jetman went a few step ahead of previous sentai series, as did Dairanger, and they paved the way to the modern shows that are generally better in terms of pacing, story and character. So, put in context, Jetman was a huge thing, and a very good series. Maybe Inoue is like John Byrne in American comics, i.e he was really edgy back in the day but had big trouble following the evolution of the medium. Lately, everything he does is dated and lame.

That said, I think the sexism issue is totally valid, even back in the day. If you take Jetman as an example, Gai is a complete sexist and totally gets away with it. Worse, it's shown as cool. Then again, those are Japanese shows, and Japan doesn't seem like the most progressive place regarding those issues. Which doesn't make it right all.
Yeah, i understand that the pace is very different, but Jetman was definetely something else, I've heard that it is considered the best Sentai ever made. And well, it is funny because guys that act like Gai, usually get more chicks.

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by LeoArchon » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:43 pm

*sigh* This movie... it had the potential to be something great. Instead, it suffers from the opposite problem of the Ghost/Drive crossover; here, the Ghost cast is pretty much superfluous. Seriously, you could have taken any other Rider cast, put them in Ghost's place, and it wouldn't have made a lick of difference to the overall story.

So, has Toei abandoned the concept of the big Taisen movies? If so, I'm rather disappointed. I was hoping for at least a cameo appearance from other Riders (and no, the Damashii don't count), and perhaps the Jyuohgers as well. I mean, I know Takeru's already met the Jyuohgers, but it'd still be nice to have a proper crossover, rather than one episode from each season with cameos from the other.

Sorry for rambling, but there's so much they could have done here, but they didn't. It's a tad bit annoying to know what could have been.

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by Go-On Macaroni » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:15 pm

It was never meant to be a full-blown Taisen film with tons of teams though, as much as a film for Ichigo with Ghost there as the current Rider~kid-appeal character. Even the trailers and promo material didn't imply anything different.

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by Ashki » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:49 pm

Blackcondorguy wrote:I don't know if you would get into Jetman, it's hard to get back to the Showa stuff when you're used to modern sentai, especially if thoses old series have no nostalgia value to you.

I think if anyone feels Showa Sentai isn't worth it, they should watch Go Ranger. No gaijin, no mecha, lots of death, every character is well-developed, the baddies had a theme and weren't simply MOTWs but ranked soldiers, sometimes called in from other branches. Even Ki (the comedic relief) had some depth. Sure, there was the riddle of the week, and the baddies ha a terrible time finding the Go Rangers' base, even though they walked right into it several times... but honestly, give their outfits a revamp and the series would rock most of these new sentai series with very little modding.

And I consiere Gouraigan to be the illigitimate love child of AkibaRanger and Garo. And that made it hilarious. Plus the main protagonist had an excellent actress.



But anyway back to the movie...

I think they spent too much time trying to emphasise Ghost throughout. The themes of connecting and Takeru cowtowing to everyone and everything were okay, and the eyecon tie-in worked a lot better than many of the cross-gimmic movies we've had in past. But the karaoke, teacher spying, etc. were worthless and rather annoying. Well, I take that back for Takeshi's teacher role, which was obviously meant to pay homage to Hongou's stint as a clueless substitute teacher in The Next. So I can forgive that one. But Akari following suit was annoying and was just a set-up for Hongou's guest lecture.

But bad editing and Ghost cast getting Ghost writing aside (the writers once again forgot that Takeru is a ghost, not a zombie) I was squeeing for most of it.

I really liked the Shocker in-fighting (that minion bar fight... I couldn't contain my laughter), and seeing the Ambassador in action with modern effects was amazing! Yes, Shocker was outdated two decades ago, and most of its incarnations keep getting forgotten but it was fn to watch Nova Shocker claim they wanted to rule the economy and not the worl only to do a better job of taking over Japan by force than any previous Shocker faction. Oh, the irony!

When I first saw it, I thought Hongou's new body armour was overly bulky, but seeing Ichigō in action made me lose all doubt. Say what you will about the Ghost bits and transitions, this was Hongou at his very best! The driver's bulk covered the classic red turbine, and (unless I'm mistaken) this was the first time Ichigō had a full, CGI henshin. The way they combined modern tech with the classic drawn effects made it look like nanites were swarming out of the turbine and coalescing into his armour, which is quite appropriate, especially since Hongou has apparently been upgraing his systems. I

Part of me wanted Hongou to stay dead this time, just because we need that symbolism in KR of mortality. But at the same time, this is Takeshi Hongou, who is a cyborg powered by wind. Again, his resurrection resembled a scene from The Next. And watching him fight alongside the Ambassador only to show the two had formed a bond over the decades was touching as well as awesome. I guess those who aren't acquainted with the Showa era Riders wouldn't get that, since they're missing a HUGE chunk of history.

The Wizard forehead smack. 'nuff said.

All in all, this movie was more for us Showa enthusiasts than anything else. Ghost was there to keep the ids interested, but Hongou and Tachibana's granddaughter were there fr us old geezers. And whille I get Takenoko's notion that Mayu should have just been Hongou's daughter, the fact that she was Tachibana's granddaughter was very special. He was the sensei of every Showa rider, the head of the Rider Scouts, and perhaps the single most important non-Rider character of the entire era. He was also a very close friend of Hongou's, so the promise wasn't at all out of character (he was also almost a surrogate father for the daughter of the scientist who died saving him from his reprogramming... that's just the kind of guy he is).

So yeah, this got a solid 5 out of me because they nailed the Showa material, and I'm just numb to Ghost by this point (no offense to the cast, which is good... but those writers need to be fired and blacklisted).
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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by Go-On Macaroni » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:51 pm

Ashki wrote:(the writers once again forgot that Takeru is a ghost, not a zombie)
So yeah, this got a solid 5 out of me [..] but those writers need to be fired and blacklisted).
Inoue didn't work on Ghost, though... neither did Fujioka (who gave input on the script).

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by takenoko » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:57 pm

Uhhh, isn't he talking about hating the writers for Ghost? The way you edited it together, it makes it sound like he's talking about the movie writers, but he clearly likes the movie since he gave it a 5. Plus, the original unedited last line was:

>and I'm just numb to Ghost by this point (no offense to the cast, which is good... but those writers need to be fired and blacklisted).

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by Go-On Macaroni » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:23 pm

Oh, maybe. The earlier line of "and Ghost cast getting Ghost writing aside (the writers once again forgot that Takeru is a ghost, not a zombie)" made me think he thought this had the same writers as the show (Inoue couldn't "once again" do anything due to well, y'know)... I'll understand if I misread it, though; it's late for me. XD

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by gourdcaptain » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:37 am

That movie was... weird. It's nowhere near the worst Rider movie I've seen (mind you, there's been some real stinkers) and I did at least enjoy how completely bizarre Nova Shocker's plan was. But yeah, agree with most to all of the criticisms brought up above.

Other things I got a kick out of:
1) The third non-Nao non-Wolga member of Nova Shocker's leadership who had almost no lines, no importance, and in half the shots had an expression I read as "I regret my life choices immensely."
2) Ambassador Hell's explanation for his resurrection being "I'm Ambassador Hell! My name means "Ambassador from Hell," and thus I've revived!" Apparently, his name is literally true.

Also not a fan of Hongo having an inexplicable ressurrection scene, but I'm generally a fan of death meaning something... but don't kill people off casually for shock value most of the time. Still better than recent episodes of Ghost.

EDIT: Also, I am the one of four fans of 80% of Faiz (up until episode 40, would be one of my top Rider shows if it didn't nosedive after that), 100% of Kiva (my second favorite Rider series), and most of Wizard (it's average, but not bad for me) simultaneously. I hang out with the other three. :p

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by takenoko » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:04 am

Based on this movie's logic, I should change my name to Handsome McBigdick Livesforever.

I tried to find the clip, but my google-fu is bad. So here's a description of the V3 scene that the funeral pyre rips off:

"How about this? Early on, Destron figures out that V3 needs his Double Typhoon belt to spin in order to transform... and they promptly have a monster gunk it up so it won't. They beat Shiro, toss him into a casket, and toss that into a cremation oven. They don't count on the heat melting the gunk, and are unpleasantly surprised when, upon exiting the building, V3 is waiting for them on top of the 200-foot tall chimney. Shouting down at them." - http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Kame ... _3/Awesome

Anyway, it's totally cool that people like shows that I despise. In that situation, I should just really say "It's not for me" more than anything.

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by gourdcaptain » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:12 am

takenoko wrote:Anyway, it's totally cool that people like shows that I despise. In that situation, I should just really say "It's not for me" more than anything.
It's cool. I just find it funny on occasion (especially on other forums) I feel like I'm watching the Toei Mirror Universe compared to everyone else with my opinions on some shows. (I also find W average, can't stand Drive, and love Goseiger.) This forum just comes closer than most to my taste. Also, thanks for subbing pretty much everything. Even if I prefer other group's styles for some projects, I do appreciate that a bunch of stuff I like I got from here that nobody else has touched.

EDIT: Not sure I'd call it a ripoff of that scene from V3, but it's not a great scene in KR #1 and it's an amazing scene in V3.

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by takenoko » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:23 am

Yeah, I remember my coworker showed me that scene from V3 like a million years ago. So I honestly don't remember how similar it is. But I really feel like it drew inspiration from that moment.

And I actually did like most of the 80s stuff that happened in Kiva. Just all the modern day storylines and some of the lazy world building drives me up the wall. Like what's the deal with the Arms Monsters? Were they like Imagin, but just explained even more poorly? What is the Kiva system? A living armor? A symbiotic relationship?

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by gourdcaptain » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:32 am

takenoko wrote:Yeah, I remember my coworker showed me that scene from V3 like a million years ago. So I honestly don't remember how similar it is. But I really feel like it drew inspiration from that moment.

And I actually did like most of the 80s stuff that happened in Kiva. Just all the modern day storylines and some of the lazy world building drives me up the wall. Like what's the deal with the Arms Monsters? Were they like Imagin, but just explained even more poorly? What is the Kiva system? A living armor? A symbiotic relationship?
Yeah, none of that stuff is explained very well or even at all, and a lot of my appreciation for Kiva is admittedly verging on kitsch at times. I just love the characters and stuff going on. Also, Nago is one of my favorite Rider characters for how freaking nuts he is in the most amazing ways while being completely useless at winning fights. (Seriously, on a semi recent rewatching of the series I counted and he only defeats 2.5 monsters in the show, with the half being one where he needs a heavy assist carrying him most of the way, and a negative one penalty for the one he unkilled with time travel and Wataru had to handle. Even when he becomes a "good" guy, a chunk of it is just self delusion to reconcile his inability to defeat Kiva and liking his civilian identity with his ego. Still convinced the Aso's were supposed to play a larger role as IXA, this was shot down, so Inoue just put in the most absurd and sometimes useless people possible as IXA.)

And that many plot bits never explained still puts it ahead of several series for me with that.

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Re: KR Icihgou the Movie released

Post by takenoko » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:46 am

Oh yeah, I liked Nago too actually. I hated him at first, but he actually has a character arc. I guess that's the thing with quirky characters, either they really work out or they really don't. That said, I like Nago for his overly straightlaced character, not because he had a silly button fetish.

I was thinking about doing a think piece about Toku Writers and Directors and just talking in general about them, since I get a sense that a lot of people don't recognize who's who. Although, maybe that's more than what people want to know from these type of shows.

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