Kaigan KR Ghost 48

G-g-ghosts?!
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Ratings

Poll ended at Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:07 pm

☆☆☆☆☆
3
17%
☆☆☆☆
2
11%
☆☆☆
5
28%
☆☆
4
22%
4
22%
 
Total votes: 18

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Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by takenoko » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:07 pm

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Last week's poll rating:n 3.29 / 5 (14 votes)

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Re: Kaigain KR Ghost 48

Post by Lunagel » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:41 am

Okay, so the main story's not over yet, but it might as well be. Adel's out, Evil!Makoto's out, all that's left is the single? multiple? Ganmaizer. Aaaand I'm not totally sure what its/their aim is? It said replace humans but it's not really that well explained and without a clear-cut personality, it's basically just a big evil thing that they have to defeat.

I like how Shibuya and Narita were basically told to fuck off and house-sit. Shibuya looks so unenthused at this point, you can basically see him memorizing his lines for his next job.

Jesus Christ Kanon, you wanna show us that awesome power to kill baddies like 30 episodes ago? Why have you been acting the damsel in distress this whole time when you were that freaking awesome?! Can I get a character do-over please?

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Re: Kaigain KR Ghost 48

Post by ViRGE » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:58 pm

Lunagel wrote:Okay, so the main story's not over yet, but it might as well be. Adel's out, Evil!Makoto's out, all that's left is the single? multiple? Ganmaizer. Aaaand I'm not totally sure what its/their aim is? It said replace humans but it's not really that well explained and without a clear-cut personality, it's basically just a big evil thing that they have to defeat.
They're basically repeating Drive's finale, except this time the frenemy dies first instead of second. Drive was a great series, but its finale was not part of that.:|

Overall I get what the writers are trying to do. The repentance of evil, family, etc. There's probably half a dozen tropes in there, all of which can go well. But you have to earn them. Ghost has not earned them. The 47 episodes up to now have not done the work necessary to make this episode pay off. So instead we have this episode full of emotion and action, and yet at its core it's really empty. How sad.:(

And for the record, I consider Adel beyond redemption; he was a mad man who basically tried to eliminate the human race. The whole fact that they try to redeem him at the end rubs me the wrong way. At the very least, he should have died and then repented. What we got instead is an unsatisfactory punishment. I'm still giving this episode a 3 since other parts of it were still done well, but the plot is not the strong point here.

Moving on: oh hey, it's Igor. Hi Igor. Bye Igor. I'm sure we'll see him in the next episode, as everything is being setup to have the remaining Ganma characters like Igor, Cubi, Javier, and the other Ultima commander (whose name I can't remember) return. Still, I feel like his his story went off the rails at the end. He was a hard working commander for Adel, and it seems like he should have gotten a scene chewing Adel out for sacrificing him. Otherwise I'm unsure how to feel about his quasi heel face turn there at the end, if only because it was so dang quick.

Also, killing Makoto doesn't work when you have two. That too is a common trope, and while it can work, you need to take a lot of care to set it up. Otherwise you get Ghost, where he's gone and it's hard to feel bad because you know there's a spare one running around.

Finally: what the hell was up with Freya (or whatever her name is) there at the end? There are some major parts of the Ghost mythos that just confuse the hell out of me, including why she's in this series and how the Ganma world was founded. (Just how old is it? Adonis's group looked like it was from centuries ago)
Jesus Christ Kanon, you wanna show us that awesome power to kill baddies like 30 episodes ago? Why have you been acting the damsel in distress this whole time when you were that freaking awesome?! Can I get a character do-over please?
Kanon's actress needs to get herself a better manager. I mean yeah, he got her a year-long gig. But god what a waste of talent. Actually, Kanon and Aria's actresses need to just go to whoever the manager was for Akari's actress, as at least she got a meaningful role.

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On a positive note, the bit of the Ex-Aid OP (I'm assuming the chorus) played over the promo sounds catchy. The KR OPs haven't really impressed me the last couple of years, so this is a promising sign
Last edited by ViRGE on Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by Victormaru » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:59 pm

Funny how they just assume that everyone had watched the 100 Eyecons movie all of a sudden. Sucks for those who didn't fly to Japan to see it in theaters and / or watched the Riders' Souls series which are now all important to this ending. I'm referring to when Takeru attacks the Magistrate and says, "Argos!" and Frey appearing in the end. You'd be confused during both of those situations. Especially not explaining how the Magistrate became Kamen Rider Dark Ghost. I haven't seen the movie or finished the Riders' Souls series so I don't know anything myself, lol.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by gourdcaptain » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:12 pm

I just have to stare at the Sage's continual ineptitude. On top of being outdone in a fight where he's a Rider by a 10-year old girl with no prior demonstrated combat expertise, there's the matter of Deep Specter. Deep Specter:
A) Does not give sufficient power to remain relevant given the Ganmeisers easily eclipse it.
B) Causes heart-attack like symptoms with use.
C) Causes evil clone spam.
D) Has literally now spawned the final boss from it.

Seriously, Yomotsuheguri arms from Gaim was less embarassing since it actually let Michy fight Kouta and damage him, and it was SUPPOSED to be a deathtrap.

Also, the Igor thing. That was probably the most rage inducing thing in the episode with the bizarre Akari/Igor thing. No. Just no. God no. Also, this is a dude who's survived being hit by Infinity form being one-shotted by a mook.

The clone thing was bad as explained above, but the thing I got the most frustrated about was the Big Bad being taken out by shouting at him that he had daddy issues until he gave in due to Takeru's inexplicable psychic powers (did we ever get an explanation for those?) And once that happens, he's immediately possessed and they have to kill him... and that fight's over in about ten seconds either, because Infinity is even worse for good fights than Kabuto Hyper (AKA "yeah you can literally just timestop and curbstomp almost anything in this series any time you want, let alone the time travel"). And then they talk about how he's unforgivable... right after his siblings forgive him and before they talk about redeeming himself. No, redeeming himself would be sticking around to help fix the damage he's caused. Ugh, I hope Ex-Aid is better, but I'm not especially optimistic after Drive and Ghost for me. Or from the Ex-Aid suits.

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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by ViRGE » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:17 pm

Victormaru wrote:Funny how they just assume that everyone had watched the 100 Eyecons movie all of a sudden. Sucks for those who didn't fly to Japan to see it in theaters and / or watched the Riders' Souls series which are now all important to this ending. I'm referring to when Takeru attacks the Magistrate and says, "Argos!" and Frey appearing in the end. You'd be confused during both of those situations. Especially not explaining how the Magistrate became Kamen Rider Dark Ghost. I haven't seen the movie or finished the Riders' Souls series so I don't know anything myself, lol.
Admittedly, not being in Japan to see 100 Eyecons is technically my own fault. But I am not going to sit through yet another Toei nostalgia fest (Rider Souls) to figure out what is happening with mystery chick.

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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by gourdcaptain » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:18 pm

Oh, also, from watching this episode earlier and discussing it with a friend.
Takeru (roughly): "There's no parent who doesn't care for their child!"
Yuka from Faiz would like to disagree. Or Eiji from OOO. Or Yui Kanzaki from Ryuki. Or Kagami from Kabuto. Or Taiga from Kiva. Or Philip from W. Or Kaito from Gaim. Or Gou and Kiriko from Drive.

EDIT: One of my Rider-watching friends who wasn't even tangentially aware of Rider Souls was so confused by the girl from that showing up and wondering if he'd missed an episode or something.

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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by Kuchiri » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:32 pm

Phillip's father cared for him. He had to attempt to defend his evil plans from W. However, Phillip dying was an accident.

Ghost had so much potential. A whole bunch of potential. All wasted. Here's hoping EX-Aid is good.

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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by gourdcaptain » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:40 pm

Kuchiri wrote:Phillip's father cared for him. He had to attempt to defend his evil plans from W. However, Phillip dying was an accident.
I was more referring to how he treated post-revival Philip. What with sticking him in the Gaia Memory factory without a name and such.

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Re: Kaigain KR Ghost 48

Post by mholden020 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:43 pm

During that first battle I thought Kanon could have been Kamen Rider "ONIICHAN!", but I later returned to the "Holy sh*t learn a different word..." we've all come to be comfortable with. Makoto gets rekt: "Oniichan!". Makoto gets healed a few seconds later: "Oniichan!". Hopefully the actress wasn't paid by the word.

Chalk this series up as probably the first conflict in history to be concluded by one of the opponents realizing they were wrong. By the logic posed here, the whole thing could have ended about 20 episodes ago by someone yelling, "Adel! You're an idiot!" and Adel replying, "I see! You're right!" Hopefully Ghost's appearance in future Kamen Rider shows/movies doesn't follow the trend set in the show. Otherwise, Takeru will wind up with a massive attack, charge at the enemy, then trip on his shoelaces a few feet in front of the baddie.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by ViRGE » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:56 am

So on a lark, I just checked the Wiki.

Main writer Fukuda Takurou, after being absent for an unprecidented 11 episodes back in the 30s, only returned for two episodes (39 & 40, the Father/Daughter one). After which he was gone for another 6 episodes. He's back for 47, 48, and 49, which it seems are being produced together as a single block 3-parter. All told, of the back-half of Ghost, he's only going to have written 7 of 25 episodes.

I just can't help but think something is amiss behind the scenes. Obviously they didn't sack the guy and pull a Hibiki, but he's had very little to do with the series as of late, particularly developing the back-half stuff with Infinity, Alain, Deep Specter, and the Ganmizers. Perhaps the underdeveloped/unfocused nature of the show is (in part) a consequence of not having a strong main writer holding the reins the whole way through? I don't want to blame the secondary writers here, but I'm sure it can't be easy having to shoulder a seemingly larger than normal share of the show.

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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by OOOKaiser » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:40 pm

This episode felt empty to me. I didn't feel anything for Adel, to me, he was just a messed up person and did things to get what he wanted. He killed his own father for a stupid reason and I just thought it was so stupid for him to do that. It was for plot advancement and for Alain's character development. Ghost felt empty to me and with the story closing next episode I'm not happy with how this series turned out. The show stopped progressing and instead it dragged on becoming uninteresting for me. I didn't like Drive but it was clearly better than Ghost in writing. The costume design was just lazy later on in the show and it made me lose interest.

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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by Ashki » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:37 pm

KANON DID A THING! AGAIN!

Seriously, it's so pathetic that two seemingly very talented actresses are treated as eye candy for almost the entire series and literally get to do something awesome for about two seconds before being muted again. Akari, the only other female actress in the cast was a total tomboy and they WROTE her like a male. Makes me think someone with rank was being more than a litle sexist with their power. I'm definitely going to try and keep an eye on Aria and Kanon's actresses so I can see their potential when not being used as an attractive prop.

And speaking of sexists... Adel, that nasty perv... I'm not going to even get into his creepy sister fetish or his thanking her for what he's done to her. Someone on the writing staff has some serious sibling issues, between the Kanon-Makoto love thing and Adel's thing for Aria. Ugh... But Akari an Igor as an item? I can oddly see that as a thing... And now that his eyecon is destroyed he has his body back.

It was nice to see the furniture fighting back for once (well, MOST of the furniture anyway), but really, this episode was horribly written, even more horribly paced, and I felt like I was stuck in an old Playstation-Era Final Fatasy game where they throw in a bonus boss after the final boss, just because they can. Oh, and nice job one-shotting said final boss, Takeru. Now why didn't you do that move even once in the past 20 eps?

As a writer, I get what they were going for with the Deep Spectre Doppleganger thing, but it was total gash for them to omit the explanation when they revived Makoto. Simply put, Deep Spectre was a twin-eyecon device. As the main one is used, the twin draws from it. When Makoto was fighting all those twins, he was actually feeding the secondary eyecon. Dopple-koto merged into Makoto because he WAS Makoto, or at least part of his lifeforce. Had they taken the time to explain all of this in the show, especially throughout the double-Makoto arc, it could have actually been a pretty good plot. Instead, they omitted everything but the action sequences, ruining the whole thing.

I have so many other complaints, but I'm giving this a 4 SOLELY in honour of Kanon and Aria whose actresses did their best when given practically nothing. For a brief moment, both shined in this ep (with Aria being the patient mothely type an Kanon going Bruce Lee). I just hope Sela gets some attention before the end of her own run... but at least her actress already has a successful career.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by Mxylv » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:42 pm

It had several good moments, but it still wasn't my favorite. The Makoto dying scene really had something to it until the clone fixed him up (killing off the real Makoto and having the clone take over as an amateur older brother/Rider would’ve been pretty neat, if brief). I also really liked the flashback bit, perhaps because it had both Adonis and Edith. Redeeming Adel ran the risk of being extremely repetitive (after Makoto/Alain/possibly Javert/certain Ganma were all similarly redeemed), but I think it worked out pretty well.

That said, I think saving Adel would be a lot more interesting if he had more of a personality. When they were villains, Makoto, Alain, Adonis, and even Igor were interesting characters, but there really isn’t much for Adel. Also an issue with the episode was Sennin. He was able to fight Adel as a black and gold Ultima. Could he please get back to being Edith? Also, the ending seemed to come out of nowhere. Do most Rider shows actually have an ending before the crossover, or are they more like this?

Other than those bits, though, I enjoyed it. It wasn't perfect, but it had a siege where (almost) everyone played a part, a fight where Takeru completely lost it, and a pretty decent final battle.
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Re: Kaigan KR Ghost 48

Post by JujinSan » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:55 pm

I dont think the series would have be as bad if the writers had fleshed out the villains/characters more. Kanon could have easily been dropped as well as Shibuya and Narita. More time should be taken as the concept stage to fully figure out how the overall story would play out. In its current state Ghost is a mish mash of randomness.
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