Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

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TokuCasual
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by TokuCasual »

Mandalori wrote:I know, but it wasn't it. You can listen it on youtube or elsewhere and you'll see the difference. I think the song they used is a variante of it.
It's the same melody. Just a slower instrumental version of ~Savior in the Dark~. It's also the same ending theme for Red Requiem.

You can hear the chorus part plays when Kouga walks into the light and Rekka woke up.
Dragonfan wrote:I am not say that it is confirmed or anything, they can change whatever they want, but all the information we have points to future more than to parallel universe.
I agree with you that it's a timeline thing. Ever since Yami I never saw it as anything but. Not from a technology standpoint, that's almost irrelevant. But they made it clear in the plot that it was set some era after a great war which took down Garo's golden light. Most likely a time gap after Raiga and onward. Not necessary referring to Raiga.

As for why in Yami the tech was a bit sci-fi but in Gold Storm the world felt modern again, I don't think that has to do with plot, but rather Amemiya not liking the previous director setting. Of course it can still be up for debate as there's no direct confirmation from Amemiya himself. Whether it's time or parallel world, it's still interesting regardless.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by takenoko »

I kind of feel like the ambiguous explanation of this episode is more proof that they never plan to directly connect the Kouga/Raiga Garos to Ryuuga's. In the same episode, they said time stuff at one point, and world stuff in another. It's sort of what you expect when you want to do a fan service episode, but you don't want to acknowledge the fact the stories were never really supposed to connect.

I mean, that's just the nature of parallel worlds. There's always a light house, there's always a man, there's always a Garo, and there's always a Zaruba. Do we really think that Ryuuga's Zaruba is the same one that Kouga or Raiga wore? Probably not.

If you want to hear a crackpot theory on proof for them being different, just look at the episode titles.

Main universe titles use two kanji:
http://wiki.tvnihon.com/wiki/Garo#Chronology
http://wiki.tvnihon.com/wiki/Garo_~Maka ... Chronology
http://wiki.tvnihon.com/wiki/Garo_-Maka ... Chronology

Alt universe titles use one:
http://wiki.tvnihon.com/wiki/Garo_~Yami ... Chronology
http://wiki.tvnihon.com/wiki/Garo_-Gold ... Chronology

Want to guess how many kanji Retsuden uses? Three, because it's an amalgamation of continuities.
http://wiki.tvnihon.com/wiki/Garo_-Maka ... Chronology

Something that might be interesting is looking back and seeing how Gonza talks about Gold Storm stuff. Because I definitely feel like it's a lot more ambiguous, almost like a folktale for him, since there's no way he knows any of the characters from Gold Storm. Unlike the other series where it's possible that he's telling stories about his friends.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by TokuCasual »

When you put it that way takenoko it does make sense.

I never actually thought of it like that. I mean, Ryuuga was spawn from a different director, it's fair to say it's also treated as a different universe. Amemiya probably felt the same. Although with that theory, how many parallel world and how many Garos are there wandering in each dimensions. My heard hurts.

There are no Watchdogs or specific district for Makai Knight in Ryuuga-verse. Maybe that's how it is in that world. But then that could be the result after the great war which ended Garo's golden shine. How do we know that wasn't cause by the fall of the Saejima's era? How do we know the Zaruba with Ryuuga is not the same one from Kouga/Raiga, except with amnesia from past destruction? Zaruba has had memory wipe before. Too many questions. The debate could go either way.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by takenoko »

I mean, put my feet against the coals and I'll admit that there still could be a connection between the two stories. I just don't think they'll ever make one to bridge the gap anymore than they would connect the anime series to the live one. It's fine, we don't need a Decade or Gokaiger to say all the sub-series have to link together. Some of my favorite Garo stories are just total spin offs like Tougen no Fue or Bikuu.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by Dragonfan »

But the same could say about timelines.

I mean, for you the fact that they use different number of kanjis is an indication that they're parallell universes, but it could be for different timeline, or simply to indicate that they are "different", to differentiate Saejima stories from Ryuuga's. It only proves that they are different, but not different unvierses.

And like I said, the word sekai/world it's not used in the sense of physical world. Every japanese product related to time travelling uses "sekai", mirai no sekai, anta no sekai, kako no sekai. And they are not trying to be ambigous, it is just the way they phrase it.

About Zaruba, it has been implied many times throughout series, anime, manga and databooks that he has existed almost as long as the Garo titled, always helping the bearer of the armor. So yes, he is the same Zaruba.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by abazigal »

There's still the issue of Kaoru's picture book appearing in one of the episodes of Yami no Terasu, which suggests that it is set some time in the future after the first Garo series in the very least.

That said, Yami no Terasu was the series that got me hooked on the whole Garo franchise, so for me, Dougai Ryuga will always be the most endearing Garo protagonist.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by Phoenix512 »

I would say the picture book is more of an easter egg than it's a timeline connection.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by mholden020 »

That was a really good way to end that series. Some of the episodes were "meh", but they put my two favorite characters together and then brought Kouga back (the green eyes...:O).

As for the parallel universe/future theory, I don't know of anything we've seen to suggest that the Ryuga stories are in a different universe than the Saejima stories. The Garo armor was introduced in YwTM as the previous Garo falling in battle and the armor being tainted, a good sign that it's been a while since the armor was used. When the armor was cleansed, it was the Saejima armor, however with orange eyes instead of the Red, Green, or Blue from the three Saejima Garos. Ryume added the popped collar and other goodies, and it got an upgrade.

The other major thing was that the floating eye-monster in the start of this episode said it could transcend Time, resulting in Rekka and Rian meeting up. That suggests that the Ryuga series is just a while into the future.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by Alessar »

I also think that the Ryuga-Rian universe is a parallel dimension. I think that Vol city was futuristic because it was a construction project that was deliberately made to be very high-tech. It also seemed to not be part of the country of Japan but an independent state which is definitely not the kind of thing we saw in the main continuity. The only thing from that series that ever seems to reference anything from the original was the reference to a makai priest training ground in Kantai (from beast of the white night)If we're talking about parallel universes then it's certainly reasonable that there could be a similar training ground just like there's a duplicate set of armor and a ring and a coat that are all following the pattern of the archetype. But clearly in that weird the Saejima line are not Garo's holders. Another major difference is that there are no Watchdogs in that continuity instead all of the orders come from active, very powerful priests. I also don't think they make any references to the Senate. Instead in the future of the original continuity we get Bikuu and the dark slashers and the Senate is definitely running things and signing territories.

Anyway aside from all that I thought it was a great episode. I was really surprised that they played the Sigma fight music for the two priestesses. I loved the theme that they gave Koga during the latter part of the fight and it made me want to buy the soundtrack. I have the soundtrack for the original series and that particular fight music is definitely not a simple variation of any of those themes. I have played the album to death.

Also that floating eye monster was the big badn from Yami and it is in fact a creature that manifested in the time of Koga's son. So they were crossing from the past into the future in the original continuity and also kind of going sideways into another dimension.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by chronoxiong »

Good episode. Was awesome to see Kouga again. He has aged but still hasn't missed a beat. I wonder what mission is he on. Was cool to see Rekka and Rian battle it out with no clear winner. I seriously wonder what time all characters are from. Or universe. Maybe someday Keita Amemiya will figure it out.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by TokuCasual »

Alessar wrote:The only thing from that series that ever seems to reference anything from the original was the reference to a makai priest training ground in Kantai (from beast of the white night)
Nope. Kaoru's storybook was in Yami. Also it was Eiris from Makai no Hana that was responsible for the time portals bursting through history. As shown in Makai no Hana and at the start of this episode. It's the same portal that took Kaoru, which causes Kouga to jump after. We now know he still hasn't found Kaoru yet.

As for the future timeline vs parallel world, like I said, the argument could go either way. All that you brought up to support the parallel world theory can also be counter the other way around. The Watchdogs missing, the Senate missing, etc, could possibly be the result of a fallout from the war that ended Garo's golden shine. Thus leaving Ryuuga's future barren.

Yes, it is a theory, but so were the ones you presented.

For Bikuu and the Dark Slashers, they were introduced in Raiga's timeline, but this is not to say it is Ryuuga's timeline. If we're going with the future time angle, Ryuuga can fit in almost at any point after Raiga's time. Maybe 10 to 20 to 100 years after. We don't know the gap.
Last edited by TokuCasual on Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by Alessar »

Darn it I meant to get back in here and make an edit. Yeah I got my series names confused I was referring to the giant flower of doom.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by Aberration »

Based on how Rian's been depicted in the past, I have trouble believing she could hold her own against Rekka in hand-to-hand combat. (On the other hand, I think her and Ryuga together with their insane combo attacks could handily beat any other duo you could think of.)

I always took it for granted that Ryuga's story takes place in the future, just because it's a simpler explanation than parallel worlds. At some point between now and then, the Garo armor loses its shine, the Watchdogs have all fallen (as have most of those living Makai jewelry thingies), and things have gotten so disorganized that Zaruba basically said "fuck it". I think the futuristic tech thing was dropped mainly for budgetary reasons.

I'd only consider the anime to be a parallel universe at this point, since it's harder to fit with the live-action timeline. (I haven't even seen the second anime, is that even in continuity with the first?)

Now, if Ryuga gets another series, I'd like to see a future bearer of one of the armors from Kouga's time. (Definitely NOT Zero, that's too obvious. I would leave the Zero armor's fate to be ambiguous, especially if they're going to continue doing stories with Rei.)

BTW, is TV-N going to sub the wrestling special?
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by Arashi1984 »

Alessar wrote:I also don't think they make any references to the Senate. Instead in the future of the original continuity we get Bikuu and the dark slashers and the Senate is definitely running things and signing territories.

If I'm not wrong there is a reference ot the Senate in the last episode of Yami, with Aguri trying to work for/with them.
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Re: Garo Makai Retsuden 12 released

Post by takenoko »

Aberration wrote:BTW, is TV-N going to sub the wrestling special?
Not sure. It may totally suck, in which case it might be hard to justify it. We'll just have to wait and see!
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