KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

A-MA-ZON2
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Poll ended at Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:33 am

☆☆☆☆☆
21
75%
☆☆☆☆
6
21%
☆☆☆
1
4%
☆☆
0
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Total votes: 28

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KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by takenoko » Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:33 am

Previous: viewtopic.php?f=155&t=21950
Wiki: http://wiki.tvnihon.com/wiki/Kamen_Ride ... Episode_13
Season 2 poll and discussion thread: viewtopic.php?f=155&t=21968

Last week: / 5 ( votes)

Alt Title - The End?

From A(mazon) to (Amazon)Z we're at the end of the road. Just as Jin stumbles through a dark tunnel, ironically running into guide sticks toward a light he cannot see, we approach our finale.

Let's talk about fate. Not Fate as in your lives are controlled by old women spinning yarn. Fate as in the ironclad laws that govern the world. Kill or get killed. Be the top of the food chain or be prey. Despite his great power, Chihiro was born into this world where he had no chance of surviving. But like he said, he would live till the very end. And it's no irony here that living and fighting are synonymous in this violent world.

However, let's talk about Chihiro's small victories. He didn't kill his mother. Jin appears just to tell him that he's not the monster that he thought he was (just a different kind of monster). He actually made Iyu smile before the end (pretty sure she died on his back, there's no way she died off camera).

In show logic, trying to save Iyu was a futile act. Kurosaki was keenly insightful. Iyu may not have died, but he was right in that she was dead inside. Even when Chihiro had Iyu smiling, that was because she was thinking of memories before her father killed became a monster that killed her family. She was strong, but in the end, she was prey that gotten eaten by the world. And she only lived on as a pawn of those strong enough to use her. What would have happened to Iyu even if Chihiro succeeded in stopping the armlet?

Can't have an Amazons finale with Jin shouting out A-MA-ZON at the top of his lungs.

It wraps up surprisingly cleanly? Even if by accident, the Exterminators take down Mamoru. Maybe in an unjust world, his actions were understandable, maybe even forgivable, but there's no way he could have been allowed to live. Same with Nanaha-san. It's never clear how much of her is left, but she's clearly more mindless monster than human at this point, attacking both Jin and the exterminators.

Kurosaki leaving his gun behind was a nice touch.

Do those pillars that come out of the ground really exist? I'm sure it's great for stopping trucks, but Riders ride on motorcycles, yo.

But still, it would have been nice if Jin and Chihiro had somehow teamed up to save Chihiro and Iyu at the end. But that's just not how it works. Although, the fact that we don't seem them die and it ends kind of ambiguously is nice. Chihiro and Iyu are both victims (of Jin specifically). I can't help but notice that none of the people who created Amazons were punished (besides Jin punishing himself), but at least they're all alive (Did anyone from season 1 die?) Humans won and Amazons lost.

Not really sure about the post-credit stinger. Felt like unnecessary sequel baiting.

Feel like this is a 4 out of 5. It's hard to do a strong ending. There's no way you can please everyone. And there's fate. Some things are written in stone, they need to happen. The rules of the world wouldn't allow otherwise.

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by OOOKaiser » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:12 pm

takenoko wrote:Not really sure about the post-credit stinger. Felt like unnecessary sequel baiting.
I really hope they don't do another season, the episode wrapped everything up nicely and i agree that post credit scene was really unnecessary.

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by TypicalStandUser » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:28 pm

takenoko wrote:(Did anyone from season 1 die?)
Shogo Kano, the ultimate salaryman a Japanese company could ever ask for. How could you forget him?! *Points to his bisected body* SHAME!!
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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by takenoko » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:38 pm

But that's my point, for such a bloody and violent series, the first season guys get off with their necks intact, aside from Kanou. Pretty tough!

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by TypicalStandUser » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:49 pm

Ack... Noted.

As for the finale... Man I have quite a lot to say about it...

Short version: a very good episode and a good season/series finale?? Sad, yes, but a good indicator of how the characters felt their choices as the finale went on.

Longform:
SpoilerShow
Firstly, the NPS's final mission. I thought I could handle it but at Mamoru's last moments and Misaki finding in the crater a hidden memento that the old yeller kept to himself, I couldn't hold it in anymore. These hardened yet hearty mercs have committed the inevitable and are heartbroken for doing so. I loved the NPS, even as they lost Ryuusuke and Jun, but watching Mamoru deflecting the Scattershot round was heartrending for me.

During that sequence, there's Jin finally killing Nanaha. The fact that he's still reeling from it at the ending is, in my opinion, the realization of a severe consequence for following his strict and narrow-minded objective to eliminate the Amazons. Jin may have completed the objective in full but it costs him his lover, a child he could have loved and raised and the chance of having the normal life that he initially wanted at the Season 1 finale. He's now a miserable monster with no prey to hunt, living a fate worse than death.

While not surprising that Haruka is alive, it was heartwarming that Mizuki let him go rather than kill him. And even more heartwarming that Haruka helped Jin to end the final problem at hand. Haruka this season became a hardened yet humble man due to admitting his flaws in leaving Jin alive, as well as leaving Mamoru and the remnant Amazons to their own devices as they turn to violent means against humanity. Even as the other Amazons died out, Haruka held to the idea of coexistence, but now... With none of the remnants by his side, perhaps even he may suffer the consequences of his actions. Coexistence will never be an option in this world.

And then, Chihiro and Iyu. When the synopsis for this season came out in March, I initially figured that a moody, young, possibly horny monster trying to court and help a walking corpse regain her memories was an idea that would be met with insanity and many failures. As it did, I found that Chihiro kept going with what he needed to do correctly to recover Iyu's humanity. That was endearing to me. And as he achieved Iyu's smile before her passing, he got what he wanted. He may have died in his last stand for survival, but he won in obtaining the warmth of compassion from a dying human. Chihiro and Iyu's puppy love story, while not perfect, was a decent storyline with an ending that I'm fine with.

Full disclosure, I sang along with Chihiro and Child!Iyu that one song and then cried as Iyu passed.

As for 4C and the collapsed pharmacy...

Go have coitus with yourself, Yugo Tachibana. Whatever may happen going forward that post-credits stinger, I'll be right here, digging your grave. There will be a warranty on your Karma Houdini trope someday, paraplegic jackass. Sure, Tenjo still seems to be the one people should be shouting at for the initial Amazons outbreak, but your actions this season assure you're no better than your ex-boss.

Reika, still a bitch. Glad you realized your obliviousness to your own flesh-and-blood daughter.

Tenjo, while you are still the man responsible for everything that has happened up to now, a lot of your insight about this world's kill or be killed mentality is sound. That scene where he snarked on Kurosaki was nice.

Good for you, Takeshi-kun, for abandoning the life of killing flesh-eating monsters while you're young. You have avoided Jin's fate. Enjoy yourself, don't die of diabetes.

I hope I can watch Fudamori get more spa time in the future. Oh my dirty coward, nothing makes me more happy than your spa time. No homo.

I still miss you, Kanou-san.

As for the rest of the humans...

Good for Mizuki for standing up to her own mother. Reika was a bitch through and through but then her own daughter shows that she is capable of killing even a scientific magnum opus like Haruka. She does have a heart at the very least. Perform admirably, girl.

I also feel for Hiroki-kun. While temporary, there was once a possibility that Haruka's ideal for coexistence could have worked through Hiroki's change in attitude towards both Chihiro and Iyu, along with the moments he helped them. I'm glad he matured, threw away his vendetta against the monsters and helped someone in need, even if they weren't human.

Not really sure about the post-credit stinger. Felt like unnecessary sequel baiting.
Remember: Haruka and Jin are still alive and it may seem that in paranoia, Tachibana wants them out of the picture because they are still monsters that 4C would hunt down.

I quote from S02E03: "I'm not like those villains who seek to combine humans and Amazons." Remember Reika's wham line about how Haruka was created back in S01E13?? He didn't like that one bit. Then at S02E09, he totally did not like the fact that Chihiro was Jin's son. He loathes both of them.

I hope that this stinger could produce a good epilogue of sorts to end the series once and for all. After all, some web-streamed shows do have an extra episode after a season, like Bojack Horseman and his Horsin' Around Christmas Special.

Yasuko Kobayashi, keep Kamen Rider great with a show like Amazons. You've shown that you are still capable of creating good stories with moral questions, deconstructions to many Kamen Rider tropes, along with the law of the jungle to renovate the narrative into a grey and gray morality system, questioning the limitations of non-humans, questioning humanity's privilege to live and conquer and that survival is the only true victory, not always "killing the bad guys."

Amazons is why I watch Kamen Rider seriously. Mainstreams like Den-O, Gaim or Ex-Aid come and go with glory or infamy, but this series moved me more than those ever could.
Last edited by TypicalStandUser on Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by takenoko » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:54 pm

Just to give credit where it's due, it wasn't my insight. The promo for the first season of Amazons is "Eat or be eaten". The law of the jungle has been a central theme of the show since the very beginning.

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by Dengar » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:52 am

I'm always of so many minds when it comes to open endings.

While it seems to me that Chihiro indeed did not survive, I wonder why they decided to not show his death.


I also have multiple different feelings about the fact that nobody gained anything. Chihiro was punished for the crime of being born, Iyu died for not being dead enough, Jin was denied his right to die, 'the team' ended up having to face the consequences of their own actions by killing their friend, Kurosaki and C4 suffered many injuries and deaths...

And Haruka's situation didn't really change at all. He started the show living in a sort of existential limbo with no real place to belong... Which is also how the show ends for him.



At the same time, the fact that all these things bother me is a testament to how much these characters have grown on me, and thus to the story's writing.

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by Catastrophe » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:38 am

Two points of complaint. Like others have said, the stinger at the end was unneeded. I enjoyed how everything was wrapped up and feel like it should be left alone. The second was getting blue balled on that Alpha+Omega vs Neo battle. While the ending with the armlets and both Haruka and Jins words suggest that Chihiro is dead, its a shame they didn't pace the episode better or have it a bit longer to conclude it.

All in all though, it was very good. The extermination squad and Mamoru plot was resolved. There is some ambiguous foreshadowing with Kurosaki. I think that we might have been infected by Chihiro in the warehouse and is pondering what to do with his existence. Haruka gets to live freely.

While the build up was a little slow for the start of the season, I'm happy with how it all turned out. Its not sunshine and rainbows but its not super depressing either. Looking forward to whatever Amazon original Rider reboot we get.

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by fenrir » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:02 pm

indeed, this is the BEST SERIES of all Kamen Rider franchise i ever seen i guess. and the reason for that is because it's WAYYYYYYYY TOO MATURE above everything else, to the point people can bring the idea and reflect in their daily life & way of living. as much as i like Gen Urobuchi for Gaim, Kobayashi sensei is my new champion by doing AMAZONZ.

Haruka
i understand his position & objectives, but somehow he's the character i almost forgot throughout the series, yet cared for him. his fighting ability is too superior for now. and he himself choose to be a lone wolf carrying a mission of coexistence & also act as the Judge+Protector of human&wild amazons. since S1Ep6, he start his resolution of it. become devoted in S1 Finale. but throughout S2, i don't think he developed anymore. and i guess all of his arc might be forgettable in the future.

mizuki & hiroki
They represent the developed people after being through these unsightly sad process, and nowadays they understand what LIVING means as a creature. while these 2 perhaps still young, they can change their mindset easier than older people in charge.
Mizuki let Haruka live not bcoz of her being told by mom, nor bcoz Haruka is a valuable product, a bit bcoz she love him. but i guess she understand that by being human and to remain human is you have to use your "heart" & conscience. not lose to your fear like Tachibana & Reika.
Hiroki on the other hand, improve as a teenager who seek revenge, to the person who should cherish life & learn of coexistence bcoz he find his morality along through the process losing all of his friends+people who knows him. he back to school, and clearly gonna keep remind himself from everything that he learn from his experience.

Tachibana, GO FU*K YOURSELF, Reika you BIT*H.
These 2 person are the main villain of this whole AMAZONZ thing in my opinion. while Takkei is guilty as well, but he himself is ready to bear the consequences of his action if being eaten by AMAZONS. Reika & Tachibana NO, they're not, they even try several times to clean their hands from this thing + have desire to get personal benefit as well in the process. Profit & Glory is what they seek, in the end they only get "still alive".

JIn nanaha chihiro = sad family, selfish, stubborn & strict + STRONG, ALL STRONG!!!
it's one of a very very very TRAGIC love story in the history of Kamen Rider I guess. JIn+Nanaha is very likeable for audience since the start and yet their story end in a very sad way :(. if there's no Amazon virus, this family might be happy & succesful. ALL of them are strong in fighting & in STICK INTO THEIR RULES and character, however this attitude also cost them such a great thing in life.

mamoru & the squad
thumbs up for teh actor who play mamoru, in S1 mamoru is very innocent&hopefull, in S2 mamoru is very DARK&CYNICAL. he potrays both in a good way.
we see mamoru finally realize his action bring Fukuda into suffering. however his desire to have "friends" is greater than that, he scared to be lonely & hunted. he's not as strong as the other 3 MAIN AMAZONS. although he knows he's wrong, but he wants companion who can accept him & wont be harmed by him. He loves the squad & so does the squad loves him as well, however he doubt their love & he doubt himself as he cant control his desire to eat them.
And for the squad, so everybody alive. they fulfiled their mission now, although it's sad that they kill Mamoru by accident. They become a hero for mankind, but they sacrifice their happiness for that, yet they finally able to solve their regret 5years ago.
(sidenote, Fukuda become the Important one from the squad in S2 while mostly he's quiet in S1. Shidou is no longer that important right?)

kurosaki fudamori
nothing much to say about fudamori as he represent a normal coward human until the end. only 2 moment for him that develop himself. when he realize he just "kill" Iyu by pushing that button & when he stop shooting Chihiro+Iyu (but perhaps it bcoz of he's already running away and scared).
Kurosaki leaving his riffle behind = INDEED NICE TOUCH
at some point i do hope he goes upstairs and kill Tachibana in the post credit scene, hahaha, i dunno why i hope for that.
He learn some point in the end of this thing. He appreciate living&life, not only just a person who scared of death. Humans don't have privilege to live & shouldn't take life as granted, he learn that in the end. although we still don't know how he will elaborate that idea into action in his future daily life. I assume he quit 4C & run solo???
and yes, he wont take Takayama Jin route after all of this. he realize there are more in life.

lastly, iyu chihiro SAD LOVE STORY!!
the saddest thing for this love drama i guess that even after all the sacrifice, Iyu dont even realize how much Chihiro love her, since her mind is no longer normal human :(.
Chihiro did won a bit in the end, as people tend to stop shooting at him even though they knew how dangerous to keep this Amazon alive. He managed to move those people heart & conscience even just for few minutes. his love devotion for the walking dead corpse melt something in those shooters heart.
Perhaps Chihiro is the #1 fucked up charater since fetus-end in Kamen Rider history. He didn't allowed to live & he didn't even have any chance to defy those Fate. in only 5years he suffered endless tragedy again and again. perhaps we only seen 5 happy moment in his life= playing with Nanaha; date with Iyu; see Iyu face got dirty by cake; happy that iyu safe him from Jin ; able to see Iyu smile+spend time with her until the final seconds.
moreover now he relieved that he's not a MONSTER as he though he is for eating nanaha. (if he gonna appear in S3, he would be able to eat something from now on.)

that stinger in post credit scene perhaps answer the question about how successful this series. Moreover, i bet the purpose for doing it since Toei need a "card" if somehow they make another sloppy show like Ghost, or something bad happened. so ya AMAZONZ S3 would be their savior for a while depend on it's quality in the future.
However, i do kinda doubt it would happened soon, since the season finale kinda wraps up almost everything from S1&S2, despite Haruka&Jin still alive.
Chihiro&Iyu body not shown dead is a good thing as well, albeit produce some questions a bit. they supposed to be dead 99% thou (but who knows what toei will force if they have no other idea?).
otw: Ex-Aid , Hurricane (ep3), Amazons S2, Kyuuranger

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by Lunagel » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:34 am

While it's a bit disappointing that there's no big Jin/Haruka/Chihiro fight, I'd argue that it's ultimately unnecessary. The outcome is a foregone conclusion. We know Chihiro is weak and struggling after the fight with 4C, so he's bound to lose. And watching a fight like that, where it's a simple, desperate fight for survival... there's no joy in that fight, no joy in the victory. I don't think there's any way they could've shot that sort of scene that wouldn't have ended up emotionally draining or worse, flat.

This was never a show with a happy ending, which is good, because wrapping everything up with a big pink ribbon would do injustice to the nature of the drama. Good and bad are not black and white concepts. You just have to survive.

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by RyuShinEX » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:45 am

is twitter episode 6B video working for everyone?

I can't get to see the video as the file only plays audio.

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by aeknar » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:58 pm

Still waiting for a clear image of Chihiro's real (Amazon) form...

While I also think that the Jin/Haruka/Chihiro fight was unnecesary, it's kinda off-putting having the tease in the preview and watching the episode to find the exact same cut.

Still 5 stars!

Maybe a movie epilogue?

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by resop2 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:38 pm

I wonder if in any of the super-sentai series the squad had to deal with the heart ache of being complicit in the death of one of the own? It seemed to me that the squad having Momoro die (by his own choice) by their "combi-shot" was like their killing Exterminator-ger Yellow.

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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by Kurokage X » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:30 pm

Disappointed we didn't get a final fight between Alpha, New Omega, & Neo but I was satisfied with it. I feel bad for Jin here and for all of Season 2
and are we going to get a special or a movie if that post credit scene was to mean anything
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Re: KR Amazons Season 02 Episode 13 released

Post by WannaFantaMan » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:32 pm

Is anyone else having trouble downloading the HD version??? My computer is being REALLY weird and not downloading it
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