Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
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- Lunagel
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Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
Let me explain some reasons behind our decision to use Paradox instead of Para-DX in our subs.
The Japanese spelling is 仮面ライダーパラドクス (kamen rider paradokusu)
The word "paradox" can be written パラドックス (paradokkusu) or パラドクス (paradokusu). The former is the accepted spelling, (3.8 million google hits) the latter seems to be an acceptable writing as well (.73 million hits plus movie title).
DX is commonly rendered as "deluxe" デラックス and can also be pronounced as the two separate letters, D and X, ディエックス. Making it large and apart from the "Para" means the initial reaction from even native speakers of Japanese is to pronounce the Para and the DX separately, not as one word. The only way a native speaker would know to pronounce it as パラドクス (paradokusu) at first glance is if they saw how to pronounce it first, which is what the katakana is for.
I personally asked 3 native Japanese speakers who do not watch Kamen Rider their first impression of how to pronounce Para-DX. The near-native level English speaker said it was "Para D X", the one who is conversationally fluent gave out "Paradox", "Paradeluxe" and "Para D X", while the low-level speaker said "Paradecks". The near-native and fluent English speakers both said after I told them the correct pronunciation was "paradox", that it was "hard to guess" and "kind of stupid."
The only reason Toei went with Para-DX is to make it look cool. Remember, they don't care about the English-speaking audience. We are not their target.
There are still people who pronounce Zyuranger as zoo-ranger because they see the Z and think it must be a Z sound. When you're watching subtitles, the easiest way for information to go from the screen to your brain is if there's no audio/visual disconnect between what the characters say and what shows up on screen. If a character says a 6 second line and there's only 4 words onscreen, there's clearly some information missing and your brain goes "hey what's going on there, it doesn't match up". If something is pronounced "docks" but written "DX", it doesn't match up.
"Oh see there's TV-Nihon saying they're above Toei again! Acting like they're better than the official source!"
In terms of English, absolutely yes. We are native English speakers translating for an English-speaking audience. We're going to use what makes the most sense, what's easiest for someone to understand. Sometimes that matches up and sometimes it doesn't. And I know there are people who think the official English is the end-all-be-all of the argument. And you are totally free to use whatever spelling you want when you're writing it, we won't stop you. But this is how we want our subtitles to be.
tl;dr - We recognize that Toei has made a romanization, but given that it's a stupid-ass romanization, we've elected to ignore it.
The Japanese spelling is 仮面ライダーパラドクス (kamen rider paradokusu)
The word "paradox" can be written パラドックス (paradokkusu) or パラドクス (paradokusu). The former is the accepted spelling, (3.8 million google hits) the latter seems to be an acceptable writing as well (.73 million hits plus movie title).
DX is commonly rendered as "deluxe" デラックス and can also be pronounced as the two separate letters, D and X, ディエックス. Making it large and apart from the "Para" means the initial reaction from even native speakers of Japanese is to pronounce the Para and the DX separately, not as one word. The only way a native speaker would know to pronounce it as パラドクス (paradokusu) at first glance is if they saw how to pronounce it first, which is what the katakana is for.
I personally asked 3 native Japanese speakers who do not watch Kamen Rider their first impression of how to pronounce Para-DX. The near-native level English speaker said it was "Para D X", the one who is conversationally fluent gave out "Paradox", "Paradeluxe" and "Para D X", while the low-level speaker said "Paradecks". The near-native and fluent English speakers both said after I told them the correct pronunciation was "paradox", that it was "hard to guess" and "kind of stupid."
The only reason Toei went with Para-DX is to make it look cool. Remember, they don't care about the English-speaking audience. We are not their target.
There are still people who pronounce Zyuranger as zoo-ranger because they see the Z and think it must be a Z sound. When you're watching subtitles, the easiest way for information to go from the screen to your brain is if there's no audio/visual disconnect between what the characters say and what shows up on screen. If a character says a 6 second line and there's only 4 words onscreen, there's clearly some information missing and your brain goes "hey what's going on there, it doesn't match up". If something is pronounced "docks" but written "DX", it doesn't match up.
"Oh see there's TV-Nihon saying they're above Toei again! Acting like they're better than the official source!"
In terms of English, absolutely yes. We are native English speakers translating for an English-speaking audience. We're going to use what makes the most sense, what's easiest for someone to understand. Sometimes that matches up and sometimes it doesn't. And I know there are people who think the official English is the end-all-be-all of the argument. And you are totally free to use whatever spelling you want when you're writing it, we won't stop you. But this is how we want our subtitles to be.
tl;dr - We recognize that Toei has made a romanization, but given that it's a stupid-ass romanization, we've elected to ignore it.
- takenoko
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
Don't listen to Luna, she's a dirty elitist that thinks she's better than Toei.
Para-dicks all the way!
Para-dicks all the way!
Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
All of the above makes sense. Thanks for the explanation, Luna. If nothing else, as an idiot layman, I agree that I'm definitely hearing "paradox" when it's spoken.
Down with the establishment!takenoko wrote:Don't listen to Luna, she's a dirty elitist that thinks she's better than Toei.
- Dengar
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
Not that I'm contesting your right to do w/e the hell you want. But by that same logic, shouldn't it have been "O's", rather than "OOO"?
- takenoko
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
No, because that is fucking stupid.
- Dengar
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
So the rules apply differently to different things?
- Lunagel
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
As I said, we're going to use what makes the most sense, what's easiest for someone to understand. Sometimes that matches up and sometimes it doesn't. With OOO, it's not instant, but at least it's the name of the show.Dengar wrote:So the rules apply differently to different things?
With Para-DX, it's not instant, and I can very easily see someone getting confused about how to correctly pronounce this name a couple years on.
It's a "damned if you do it, damned if you don't" situation and frankly the best we can do is try to find a middle ground most of the time.
- takenoko
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
There are no "rules" to translating, that's why machine translation is so bad. Language is made of vocabulary, grammar, and context. You can't communicate without that holy trinity.
- Dengar
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
That sounds fair enough.Lunagel wrote:As I said, we're going to use what makes the most sense, what's easiest for someone to understand. Sometimes that matches up and sometimes it doesn't. With OOO, it's not instant, but at least it's the name of the show.Dengar wrote:So the rules apply differently to different things?
With Para-DX, it's not instant, and I can very easily see someone getting confused about how to correctly pronounce this name a couple years on.
It's a "damned if you do it, damned if you don't" situation and frankly the best we can do is try to find a middle ground most of the time.
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
Who cares?
Why is it whenever there is a name like this and Toei fucks up because they can't into English properly everyone wants the offical spelling of the name? Like they say Paradox when they speak, and all the pre-release information up until the last minute implied it was Paradox.
I get the DX gag because Japanese developers used to release DX versions of games and still do for toys, but Para-DX is kind of dumb.
Why is it whenever there is a name like this and Toei fucks up because they can't into English properly everyone wants the offical spelling of the name? Like they say Paradox when they speak, and all the pre-release information up until the last minute implied it was Paradox.
I get the DX gag because Japanese developers used to release DX versions of games and still do for toys, but Para-DX is kind of dumb.
- Dengar
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
Well like I said, it doesn't really matter to me how they do it as long as the subs are understandable. It's just that they came up with all this logic that made me wonder about OOO.
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- Infinity
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
Still not as bad as Tajadol. Tajador forever
- xiiliea
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
Also, I just want to point out the obvious "pun".
パラド (Parado) = Parado
パラドクス (Paradokusu) = Paradox
Extra "kusu" = extra "x"
If I translate it to Para-DX, this reference is lost.
パラド (Parado) = Parado
パラドクス (Paradokusu) = Paradox
Extra "kusu" = extra "x"
If I translate it to Para-DX, this reference is lost.
- takenoko
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
Please translate as Parado X. Thanks.
- Lunagel
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Re: Kamen Rider Para-DX/Paradox Name
KAGAYAKEEEEEEE PARADO EEEEEKUSUUUUUUUU