Just call the show LupinRanger

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ShepardRahl
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Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by ShepardRahl » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:20 am

Does anybody else feel like they should just call the show Kaitou Sentai LupinRanger? It just feel kind of one sided to me. The main focus and story is apparently the LupinRangers. They get all of the stuff and most of the screen time. The PatRangers just seem to be there as a secondary antagonist to the LupinRangers to just advance the plot. Since there is a VS in the title I guess I expected a bit more even screen time and shared plot. That's just my opinion. I don't hate the show. It just feels somewhat off balance to me. I guess I expected the VS to be more integral to the plot. I could be wrong. I welcome discussion.

Edit: I don't really understand what's going on with Noel either. He's a cop from the France branch, but he seems to be more in league with the thieves. He tells them everything the cops are doing and spends more time with them. Then he goes back to the cops and they act like everything is okay with him. It seems to me like he has his own agenda and he's playing both sides to achieve it.

Double Edit: I find it amusing that a lot of the collection pieces recently are morphers from past series. lol
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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by takenoko » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:00 pm

You're not wrong. Not to say the Pats don't get good moments, but they're so much less developed than the Lupins. And it's pretty frustrating to be this far in the series and virtually know nothing about Noel.

Problems aside, this is still the most entertaining, character driven show from Komura Junko so far, so at least things are improving.

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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by Catastrophe » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:09 pm

I get the sense its the way the teams are set up. The Lupins have real motivation to jacking the collection pieces, and the Pats are just kind of there to oppose them because they are thieves/stop the Ganglars.

It doesn't help that its like they've decided to give the Pats Toys to the Lupins. The Trigger Machine Splash is clearly a Pat designed toy but it's been 5 weeks and it looks like it'll stay with the Lupins.

People will say that the reason the Ganglars have no characterisation is because they are balancing the two teams, but even then the Pats aren't as developed as the Lupins.

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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by Kurokage X » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:12 pm

That's basically what this show is: Lupinranger featuring Patranger
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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by Phoenix512 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:01 pm

ShepardRahl wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:20 am
Edit: I don't really understand what's going on with Noel either. He's a cop from the France branch, but he seems to be more in league with the thieves. He tells them everything the cops are doing and spends more time with them. Then he goes back to the cops and they act like everything is okay with him. It seems to me like he has his own agenda and he's playing both sides to achieve it.
That's the whole point of Noel. He is on his own side. I'm curious about what you think he's supposed to be.

I'm beginning to feel like Lupin VS Pat is being treated like Go-Busters was where people wanted the old Sentai tropes. Screw that. I'm glad they aren't making the Lupins being best friends with the Pats at this point. I like Noel's triple-sided nature. I'm surprised no one has complained about the lack of diversity of the arsenal the teams have like they did in Go-Busters.

The hard truth is that in general the thieves are going to be more interesting than the cops. That's how the phantom thief shows generally work in Japan.
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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by Lunagel » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:44 pm

Before the show even started people were saying that the two teams would join forces by episode 10 so there wasn't much point in calling it a vs. I'm glad they've kept the teams separate, despite how ham-fisted the explanation. Actually I think they really explained it well in episode 34 with Sakuya about why they can't team up. A little late but still appreciated.

And at least it's a team that's getting the spotlight instead of just Red all the time. Okay, the power-ups have been Red-exclusive but not spotlight-hoggingly so

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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by ShepardRahl » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:09 pm

takenoko wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:00 pm
You're not wrong. Not to say the Pats don't get good moments, but they're so much less developed than the Lupins. And it's pretty frustrating to be this far in the series and virtually know nothing about Noel.

Problems aside, this is still the most entertaining, character driven show from Komura Junko so far, so at least things are improving.
Yeah it's entertaining. I just wish the characters were developed a bit more evenly.
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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by ShepardRahl » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:20 pm

Phoenix512 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:01 pm
That's the whole point of Noel. He is on his own side. I'm curious about what you think he's supposed to be.
I didn't know what was going on at first. He was supposed to be a cop, but spent all of his time with with thieves and even gave them intel on the cops. It's fairly obvious he's in business for himself. His loyalties just seem to be more with the thieves while he uses the cops.
Phoenix512 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:01 pm
I'm glad they aren't making the Lupins being best friends with the Pats at this point.
I have no issues with the teams being in conflict. I just wish they were developed more evenly.
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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by kangchan » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:46 pm

Just the trick of Toei - TV Asahi to attract audiences for the show by use the term "Versus", but the show not really VS, not same as "Rider Wars" in Kamen Rider. If they only use the title Kaitou Sentai Lupinranger and cut out the Patrenger's role, I still feel ok.

In term of Phantom Thief, their rival should be Detective, not Police. Like Persona 5 or Detective Conan, the polices in these series are useless and depend on Detective. If Lupinranger VS Detectiveranger, the show would be better.

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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by ViRGE » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:54 pm

Generally speaking, I agree with your sentiments. The show has done a pretty good job fleshing out the Lupins, but it hasn't done so for the Pats. And that's unfortunate since they're the other 3/7ths of the regular face characters in the show. So in a lot of ways it's being carried by a 4-man band. Which would be fine except that it makes the Lupin vs. Pat conflict kind of flat, like it's there to run down the clock rather than to provide meaningful plot points.

I've long argued that the teams needed to stop being rivals about half-way through. And I still think that would be a better way to go. But as Luna correctly points out, they've stuck to their guns on the VS concept rather than immediately ditching it. So in a sense I can respect that.

That said, sticking to their guns means it inevitably highlights the big issue with a series-long setup of rival teams of heroes: they can't both be right. The Lupins are technically thieves, but they're also the stars of the show. So they can't be bad. The Pats are the police and arguably the comic relief. So they can't be bad either. So you end up with a situation where the two teams don't have good, central conflict to carry their feud over the whole season. And to invoke Star Trek for a moment, a TV show where none of your characters can have meaningful interpersonal conflicts is just dramatically boring.

And despite these minor issues, this is still easily the best Sentai since ToQger, if not Kyouryuuger. It's just not nailing the holy trifecta (good guys, bad guys, and plot) that makes a good series great.
Catastrophe wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:09 pm
It doesn't help that its like they've decided to give the Pats Toys to the Lupins. The Trigger Machine Splash is clearly a Pat designed toy but it's been 5 weeks and it looks like it'll stay with the Lupins.
I've noticed that as well. Splash is odd all around; it's so similar to Crane that I'm highly suspicious that it was a late addition to the lineup, so they had to quickly redecorate something. So either they didn't care to design out the actual trigger, or plot-wise the original plan was for the Pats to have it. Maybe the Pats and Lupins were meant to be working together sooner than what actually happened with the plot?
Lunagel wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:44 pm
And at least it's a team that's getting the spotlight instead of just Red all the time. Okay, the power-ups have been Red-exclusive but not spotlight-hoggingly so
This is a good point. The reds are still getting more focus, but it hasn't been massively so.
kangchan wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:46 pm
In term of Phantom Thief, their rival should be Detective, not Police. Like Persona 5 or Detective Conan, the polices in these series are useless and depend on Detective. If Lupinranger VS Detectiveranger, the show would be better.
Unfortunately we've already had Detectiveranger. That was Dekaranger.

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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by Kurokage X » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:29 am

it's not like they can't reuse the detective motif again. They've done it with dinosaurs and ninjas three times.
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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by Phoenix512 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:37 am

Let's not sully DekaRanger's name with other Detective Sentais. Ninninger has sullied ninjas.
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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by Catastrophe » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:18 am

Part of DekaRangers charm was that it had a futuristic setting. I don't know how well a series would work if it was say just the Pats VS Ganglars.

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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by Kuchiri » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:24 pm

I will say we know as much about the Pats as we do the Lupins. There have been really good Pat exclusive episodes. We mostly know all of their backstories and their driving forces. We also know the people that inspired them. The difference is they didn't lose the people that inspired them the same way the Lupins did. They also fit their personalities very well and they all have a hobby/hobbies. All six has had an episode that focused on the people that inspired them.

1. LupinRed has his brother, who inspired him to take up Basketball. Carefree cool/slacker attitude hiding some pent up anger. That's basically it from all of his centric episodes we know about him and his past.
2. LupinBlue has his fiance, who inspired him to take up Cooking. Calm and stoic attitude hiding his pain and guilt.
3. LupinYellow has her best friend (Maybe Girlfriend), who inspired her to take up Designing clothing. Joyful and Extroverted attitude hiding her depressed and introverted self.
4. PatRan #1 has his idol, the officer who he aspired to be. His hobby is Music. With a hotheaded hardworking attitude hiding his over-caring heart. He knows he can't care about other things than his job, it will make him not work as hard on it.
5. PatRan #3 (Who honestly should be #2....) has her grandfather. Who inspired her to be a strong independent woman who won't shy away from kicking a creep's ass. She collects plushies and has an serious attitude trying to hide the fact she wants to swoon over girly stuff.
6. PatRan #2 has the other two Pats as his idols. He said it himself in the genderswap episode, he looks up to both of them and is excited every day to work with them. He is actually the only one of the main six who isn't hiding his true attitude. He is goofy, dim, and caring. With the ability to get serious when he needs to be. His hobby is shooting, even though he doesn't take it as seriously as the others take their hobbies aside from LupinRed.

I mean it might feel like we are getting more Lupin background episodes. It might be because they are more interesting. They even have the same amount of toys.
1. They each have a melee weapon. (The weird sword, grabber thingy for the Lupins. The Batons with the megaphone for the Pats.)
2. They each have the same amount of trigger machines and dial fighters. The count is at 6 for each. (Red, Blue, Yellow, Chopper, Jet, Magic) (#1, #2, #3, Biker, Crane, Splash) Both Jet and Crane being two machines in one. Jet, Crane, Splash, and Magic also give extra weapons to the LuPats. (Even X is equal. Two trains are Patranger themed, the other two are Lupinranger themed.)
3. The only thing right now that the Lupins have over the Pats is Lupin Magnum. Which just premiered. With how the rest have been shown. There might be a Patranger Power Weapon coming soon.

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Re: Just call the show LupinRanger

Post by Catastrophe » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:48 pm

Except that Pats have never used Splash. It's exclusively been used by the Lupins since they got it.

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