Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

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Poll ended at Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:07 pm

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Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by takenoko » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:07 am

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Last week's rating: 3.83 / 5 (6 votes)

Alt Title: Introducing Lupin Blaster

An enjoyable episode, but I don't think they quite landed what they were going for. If the ultimate goal is a reconciliation between Noel and the Pats, they sure picked kind of a strange way to go about it.

Here's the summary of it. The Pats act like passive aggressive jerks (Noel admits he's distant too, but it's not shown in this episode) and then they save Noel and that's how they make up. There's no talking, no one learns anything, the Pats just flip personalities at the end because they save Noel and decide that it's okay for Noel to be secretive and distant.

But the issues that exist at the start of the episode still exist. Noel's still secretive (Tsukasa flats out asks him for more information to which he flat out refuses), I guess they just decide to not high school ostracize him anymore. That's not exactly a step forward?

It's too bad too, because the rest of the episode was pretty fun. There's good action and it's nice to see the Pats and Noel working together. It's tempting to make fun of Super Lupin-X, but I actually kind of like the shoulder cannons that can take down giants.

Sadly, no one goes to space in this episode.

Also, here's a nice little bit of progressive storytelling. The Ganglar that Zamigo offs. The Lupins didn't take his Collection piece, so either he's dead (we know he's not) or this is a hint that the people Zamigo freezes aren't dead (which we probably guessed anyway). Either way, it's a hint of something. Also, welcome back from limbo, Zamigo.
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Lupin Red gets a new form? That's weird since I thought that's what the Magnum would be.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by TypicalStandUser » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:36 am

Zamigo comes back to the field and… We lost cabin pressure. While it’s good that the Pats have encountered Zamigo and took notes on his capabilities, hope that Shrimp Mafioso has nothing on his safe.

The Super VS Vehicles appear and EVERYONE’s out to get them!

Decent debut of Noel’s shoulder-mounted cannons. I don’t like that the holders are not in the guns themselves though.

The Collection Piece of the Week is the Bouken Driver from Boukenger and the second Collection Piece from said series after the Appelle-Moi/Accellular piece.

Noel… Looking away at the Jurer’s front door and then to the table you’re in is a tell. Weirdly appropriate that the same BGM from when you clinched your fist after Umika got kidnapped (Episode 22) and when you proposed your duel against Keiichirou (Episode 32) is playing.

OK episode. This should move the story.
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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by takenoko » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:33 pm

That's what I thought that piece was from. Is this the first repeat Collection piece from a single sentai series?

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by TypicalStandUser » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:46 pm

takenoko wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:33 pm
That's what I thought that piece was from. Is this the first repeat Collection piece from a single sentai series?
Not the first.

Kakuranger's shoutouts: the Shinobi Scroll (Episode 13) and the Doronchanger (Episode 35).
Magiranger's shoutouts: The MagiLamp (Episode 7) and the Magiphone (Episode 32).
Go-Onger's shoutouts: The GoRoader GT (Episode 11) and the GoPhone (Episode 32)
Shinkenger's shoutouts: the Shishi Origami (Episode 1) and the Shodophone (Episode 32).
Goseiger's shoutouts: the Gosei Blaster with Shark Headder (Episode 22) and the Tensouder (Episode 34).
Gobusters' shoutouts: the Sougan Blade (Since the beginning) and the Ichigan Buster (Episode 29).
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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by takenoko » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:04 pm

Ah, interesting. I wonder why I didn't notice that before.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by resop2 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:35 pm

As for the front page thing, Umika x Tsukasa at least has some foreshadowing. There was an episode where Umika gives the police some intel on a whim and then Tsukasa returns the favor by kicking the Ganglar toward the Lupin's during a melee so the Lupin's could take the Ganglar's collection piece.

Also, the strength of a ship isn't always dependent on the amount of "evidence" there is for it. Sometimes the strength of a ship is in the type of characters involved.

As for the show, I am pleased that we are getting something similar to Shinkengers' cloak, an object that can give a power up to multiple rangers instead of just to red.

Also, I am now trying to figure out how the show will resolve itself. Some possibilities:

* The lupin collection is used as the Silver Crystal ((tm) Sailor Moon) and erases the Ganglars from the timeline, leaving the Lupin's as normal people and the patrangers as normal police officers.
* The lupin collection doesn't work but a Zi-O crossover causes Zi-O and Geiz to take a "ranger watch" and re-write time.
* The lupin collection isn't needed because the people are rescued when they defeat Zamigo.
* (The darkest version) The frozen are already dead and the lupin collection was a lie by Zamigo/Kogure to try to collect all the pieces and win the contest.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by BreadToku » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:47 pm

The episode itself had a lot to like, but also a lot that bugged me. It wasn't quite the trust-building episode I was hoping for between Noel and the police. There was no acknowledgement that he's one of them, or heartfelt declaration that he wants peace and justice same as they do. In fact, I don't feel like there's any change between them whatsoever, and that was disappointing especially since this show has been so good with it's character bits. Seeing all four Patrangers work together is nice but I still don't entirely feel like they are a true team, unlike Noel's earlier episodes with the other thieves.

The action in this one was all wonderful though. The exciting ground fight with Destra was cool, but I was really surprisingly impressed by the plane fight. The special effects team really did a good job of selling me that they were piloting these flying vehicles from the way the 'hatch' above them opens to show in sunlight, or how Lupin Red jumped from his jet to Victory Striker.

With all that said though, there is a bigger underlying issue for me and that is the toy distribution... We had two vehicles debut today, a Dial Fighter and a Trigger Machine. The Trigger Machine gets used to make Lupin Kaiser, and it used to give a new form to Lupin X. The Dial Fighter stays with the thieves too and judging by the preview, is naturally going to be used by them too and with similar abilities.

I had no problem with Splash going to the thieves because at the time, it went against expectations and the in-episode justification made for a really strong character moment. But this... It's by far the absolute most blatantly that the Patrangers are being ripped off in favour of the Lupins and I'm someone who has never really been bothered by that until now.

I still love the show and everyone in it. But even if the writers may try their best to treat everyone equally, it's now really hard to ignore how the toy-line people have given up on the police. I bet if there was a Magnum equivalent made for the Pats, that would have gone to the Lupins too.
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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by ViRGE » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:41 am

I'm seconding the other comments here as well. It was a good episode, don't get me wrong, but for a big episode that's meant to move the series' main plot threads forward, the writing lets it down. Noel has not been further developed in a while now - at best he's been reset to status quo after this - and meanwhile the episode doesn't give a good reason (or even really much of a reason at all) for the Pats to reconcile with him. He gave away another highly valuable VS vehicle to the enemy; they should be outraged, not accepting of it. I'm really starting to wonder if the writers have backed themselves into a corner here with a 6th Ranger that works for both sides; all of the other rangers have been reasonably developed now except him.

Speaking of which, Bread makes a great point that Lupin X got the Siren Striker. It wasn't even Noel in his PatRen mode. And when it's used as part of a mecha combination it's a LupinKaizer form even though 2 of the 3 armaments are trigger machines. At a minimum I hope he shares the shoulder cannons of awesome power with the rest of the team, though right now I could totally see the writers keeping it with him.

On the potential plus side, since the other vehicle is a Striker, I have to assume this is another torso piece. Meaning that the Lupins are going to finally get their own robo and the two teams won't have to keep sharing Good Striker. Though part of me feels like this is rater late to be introducing a new robo.

All told, the toy line for the second half of the series seems kind of messy. A very late secondary robo, the Lupins are using upgrades clearly marked for the Pats, etc. The fact that there are so many aux mecha and a poorly defined core robo isn't helping matters.

On the plus side, this was clearly a big budget episode and it shows. Lots of explosions, lots of fighting and aerial shots, etc. And I like that, even if the villains aren't very well developed, the writers have kept Destra menacing. He's not the general who has been defeated a few times and keeps coming back, but instead he's an incredible threat to everyone and is only driven off when faced with overwhelming firepower. And he continues to be one of the smarter villains in the series, even if it seems like his Lupin Collection investigation has fizzled out as of late.

Also, the Pats got a really good hero moment there. They're saving Noel not because he's necessarily a comrade, but because they're the police and that's what they do.

As an aside: When the Pats' comms started beeping near the start, for a split-second there it sounded like the MMPR comms jingle. Now I'm disappointed it wasn't :(

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by Phoenix512 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:06 am

BreadToku wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:47 pm
The episode itself had a lot to like, but also a lot that bugged me. It wasn't quite the trust-building episode I was hoping for between Noel and the police. There was no acknowledgement that he's one of them, or heartfelt declaration that he wants peace and justice same as they do. In fact, I don't feel like there's any change between them whatsoever, and that was disappointing especially since this show has been so good with it's character bits. Seeing all four Patrangers work together is nice but I still don't entirely feel like they are a true team, unlike Noel's earlier episodes with the other thieves.
Why should Noel change his relationship to the police? Keiichirou will never completely trust him and barely tolerates him. Noel is definitely on the selfish side of things and fits better as a Lupin than as a cop. To Noel, when in doubt, do the thing that advances his agenda more than the right thing. I get the feeling again that some people here want Noel to play nice with everyone but it shouldn't happen. He needs to keep his agenda as number one priority just like the Lupins and Pats shouldn't be in a permanent alliance.
takenoko wrote:Also, here's a nice little bit of progressive storytelling. The Ganglar that Zamigo offs. The Lupins didn't take his Collection piece, so either he's dead (we know he's not) or this is a hint that the people Zamigo freezes aren't dead (which we probably guessed anyway). Either way, it's a hint of something. Also, welcome back from limbo, Zamigo.
He might not had a Collection piece on him (like the Ganglar in Girlfriends Army). Those shrimp missiles are definitely his own power and didn't seem to have another power.
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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by BreadToku » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:17 am

Phoenix512 wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:06 am
Why should Noel change his relationship to the police? Keiichirou will never completely trust him and barely tolerates him. Noel is definitely on the selfish side of things and fits better as a Lupin than as a cop. To Noel, when in doubt, do the thing that advances his agenda more than the right thing. I get the feeling again that some people here want Noel to play nice with everyone but it shouldn't happen. He needs to keep his agenda as number one priority just like the Lupins and Pats shouldn't be in a permanent alliance.
That is exactly my point, though. He has been doing all that, and this would have been a perfect time to develop past that. Since he debuted, Noel has had episodes where he bonded with the other characters, and I consider episode 25 to be when the thieves, or at least Kairi, unofficially accept him as one of their own. However, Noel has not had any such episode with the Pats and I was confident that this one would be the one to do it.

He himself acknowledges in this episode that he has been playing favourites with the thieves, so it's not like he's been a true third party. So becoming closer to the cops in turn now would have been the natural progression for the character dynamics. That doesn't really happen, at least not to the point where it balances out between the two teams.

I didn't expect to him to suddenly open up and start revealing all his secrets to the cops or anything, but I don't get the sense that they are even friends right now. That was fine early on, but at this point it really shouldn't be the case.
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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by Catastrophe » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:24 am

Siren Lupin Kaiser? So they really did just decide to give the Lupins all the toys intended for the Pats? Does that mean they just gave Keichiros upgrade to Noel?

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by hiro9796 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:43 am

ViRGE wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:41 am
Speaking of which, Bread makes a great point that Lupin X got the Siren Striker. It wasn't even Noel in his PatRen mode. And when it's used as part of a mecha combination it's a LupinKaizer form even though 2 of the 3 armaments are trigger machines. At a minimum I hope he shares the shoulder cannons of awesome power with the rest of the team, though right now I could totally see the writers keeping it with him.

On the potential plus side, since the other vehicle is a Striker, I have to assume this is another torso piece. Meaning that the Lupins are going to finally get their own robo and the two teams won't have to keep sharing Good Striker. Though part of me feels like this is rater late to be introducing a new robo.

All told, the toy line for the second half of the series seems kind of messy. A very late secondary robo, the Lupins are using upgrades clearly marked for the Pats, etc. The fact that there are so many aux mecha and a poorly defined core robo isn't helping matters.
BreadToku wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:47 pm


With all that said though, there is a bigger underlying issue for me and that is the toy distribution... We had two vehicles debut today, a Dial Fighter and a Trigger Machine. The Trigger Machine gets used to make Lupin Kaiser, and it used to give a new form to Lupin X. The Dial Fighter stays with the thieves too and judging by the preview, is naturally going to be used by them too and with similar abilities.

I had no problem with Splash going to the thieves because at the time, it went against expectations and the in-episode justification made for a really strong character moment. But this... It's by far the absolute most blatantly that the Patrangers are being ripped off in favour of the Lupins and I'm someone who has never really been bothered by that until now.

I still love the show and everyone in it. But even if the writers may try their best to treat everyone equally, it's now really hard to ignore how the toy-line people have given up on the police. I bet if there was a Magnum equivalent made for the Pats, that would have gone to the Lupins too.
I've been having this issue ever since episode 30. First and foremost, even in the released toy catalog before, Splash WAS supposed to be used by Pats because it even shows Ichigou using its Keisatsu Boost, formed PatKaiser Splash and the VS Vehicle turn downwards like all Trigger Machines. However, the spoiler for that debut SUDDENLY changed to Lupin Red.

Pretty much back in Episode 30, core Pats, Jim and Hilltop are all made as PURE IDIOTS who don't even know how to fake a staff's annual leave, especially for Kei-chan. No matter how much dedicated and determined you are in work, sometimes you miss your home and want to be there after being away more than just few weeks. What's so difficult about that? You should can just lie that there's an anniversary of your relative passed away or you missed your family or like that? It's common sense what? I knew they said something like that but obviously their stuttering shows that they are doing this on the spot rather than planning and practice. Do note, they are elite, professionally trained people with high education and critical thinking no less, not just mere primary and secondary students. Obviously their thinking of such matter theoretically should be better than mere civilians like the Lupins, at least in something trivial like this compare to anything related to Ganglar and Lupin Collection. One more thing, hypothetically if the Lupins were going to steal the Core Pats Lupin Collection in the end, they could have like send a calling card for a duel or something, play fair and square.

Then the one other thing anyone ever hate was someone else who does nothing, stole a reward over someone's hard work, where the latter, in the end get nothing and had to sacrifice all their free time and expense in the process TO GET NOTHING, at least in material, not at ALL! In this case, if I were to say in biased manner, Kei-chan ALREADY gain Splash through a proper manner, way more awesome than what Lupins did. Magic is simply granted to core Lupins pretty much for free by Noel. He could had give it to Pats but no, he had to make Lupins being superior in every way. If it is not because of Noel sending Kairi to spy on Kei-chan, I think the core Pats would have something they can be proud of too compare to the time they get Crane and Drill. To simplify, the writers just had to make Lupins take things for granted, at least that's what I thought. I mean, Lupins never lose in a mecha fight that blown them away, almost every time they get away with everything, and to be clear, NO FLAWS AT ALL! The flaw is in battle, they don't have any flaws, at least I thought so. Honestly, they should just stick to whatever original idea of treating both teams equally in terms of equipment, maybe with the exception that Lupins had one extra, which is only Magnum. That one I won't be complaining because people like them more, so they deserve, to have one extra. That's just enough. While most kids may think that Lupins are cool to have so many power ups and all, I personally opt Pats are better than the Thieves because of their capability to use their current alternatives to the max.

When I first thought upon seeing Splash Magic, regardless if its LupinKaiser or PatKaiser, I WAS expecting a core Pat to join in the cockpit, it does not have to be Kei-chan, it can be Tsukasa or Sakuya with any of the two core Lupins. The same goes for this episode as well. I don't have any problem if the default formation and name was LupinKaiser but they should at least put a core Patranger in there and all of them are already merged as one team. Now that we'll be having Lupins second encounter for battle against Zamigo, or at least in the upcoming months afterwards before February 2019, they will have all out confrontation against him and then against Dogranio and his right men, I'm expecting the core Pats to play a role, significant as possible in defeating Zamigo and the rest of the Ganglars with Lupins. Otherwise, their existence in this series are not even worth having in the first place.

P.S I apologised in advance if you think I'm being rude or anything. Watching the second half of this series wasn't as good as the first half, in more ways than one. I just wish if by chance they were to make a new sentai series with two Sentai, in their full names, as part of the main title like this series, I just wish they give equal treatment to those teams in every possible aspect.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by resop2 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:55 am

I wonder if the original plan was for Noel to give Hilltop the Siren Striker as the fourth gift?

As for the firetruck vehicle, they could have done a cool angle: Kogure sees Kairi in full mope mode staring at the vehicle. Kogure asks what's wrong and he says that it depresses him that he couldn't steal it from Kei and that Kei had given it to him. Kogure suggests that Kairi give the vehicle back. Kairi brightens up, smiles an evil smile and says "nanh".

Is grabbing things out of Kairi's hand going to be Umika's gimmick?
hiro9796 wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:43 am
Pretty much back in Episode 30, core Pats, Jim and Hilltop are all made as PURE IDIOTS who don't even know how to fake a staff's annual leave, especially for Kei-chan. No matter how much dedicated and determined you are in work, sometimes you miss your home and want to be there after being away more than just few weeks. What's so difficult about that? You should can just lie that there's an anniversary of your relative passed away or you missed your family or like that? It's common sense what? I knew they said something like that but obviously their stuttering shows that they are doing this on the spot rather than planning and practice. Do note, they are elite, professionally trained people with high education and critical thinking no less, not just mere primary and secondary students. Obviously their thinking of such matter theoretically should be better than mere civilians like the Lupins, at least in something trivial like this compare to anything related to Ganglar and Lupin Collection. One more thing, hypothetically if the Lupins were going to steal the Core Pats Lupin Collection in the end, they could have like send a calling card for a duel or something, play fair and square.
I had a completely different take on that. I thought Hilltop, Sayaka, and Tsukasa did everything they could (except for saying "we are not suspicious looking people") so that Noel would not buy what they were saying and have Noel send one of the Lupin's after him to get the collection piece, thus proving that Noel is not trustworthy (and adding fuel to their suspicions that the Jurer Crew are the Lupins when Kairi shows up).

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by ViRGE » Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:03 pm

hiro9796 wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:43 am
I've been having this issue ever since episode 30. First and foremost, even in the released toy catalog before, Splash WAS supposed to be used by Pats because it even shows Ichigou using its Keisatsu Boost, formed PatKaiser Splash and the VS Vehicle turn downwards like all Trigger Machines. However, the spoiler for that debut SUDDENLY changed to Lupin Red.
Interesting. At the risk of this turning into a conspiracy theory, is it possible there were behind-the-scenes issues around the midpoint that required a minor retooling of the show? Not on the order of Go-Busters, but perhaps they couldn't figure out how to make the original story work, or market research was showing that the Lupins (and Lupin toys) were selling a lot better?

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 38 Released!

Post by Catastrophe » Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:09 pm

That's the current theory. It doesn't really make any sense otherwise.

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