Lupin VS Pat 32 Released!

[windfall]

My issue is that they can yell and scream whatever labels they want, the show hasn't even told us why they're criminals, let alone shown any illegal behavior. The worst thing I can remember is them trying to steal scissors and that ended with the woman just giving it to them.

It's just such a disproportionate reaction, especially given the circumstances. I highly doubt hilltop and the French hq would be able to come up with any other viable course of action.

[Go-On Macaroni]

Also I don't think Toei thought "Persona 5 came out and should do our next Sentai based on them". Phantom thieves have long existed in Japan. It's annoying to me that people outside of Japan think the Phantom Thief concept started with Persona 5 since it's popular.

I'm aware the concept was around way before Persona 5 but you said yourself that the game was popular so it's entirely possible Toei and co. decided to jump on it while the fire was hot. They're a business, they follow trends for better or worse.

[Lunagel]

Magiranger came about entirely because of Harry Potter and Megaranger was hitting the big tech boom so it's not unheard of.

[resop2]

I think the duel was between Kei and Noel because they just had a 1 on 1 between Kairi and Kei (which ended with Kei being noble and telling Lupin Red to act for the greater good and Kairi feeling emo over having to do a good deed).

The scenario would have played out a lot easier if they had Yellow ask Tsukasa nicely if she would help out. But then we would miss all the scenery chewing by Kei.

I agree that something is amiss if Kogure and Noel are both deathly afraid of the binoculars of truth.

I guess we had the Gauche theme extended remix this time.

[dryedmangoez]

There's really nothing deep about the characters and their motivations. The Lups are amazing and anything they do, good or bad, is justified because they want to bring back loved ones from the dead. The Pats are dumb, bumbling idiots. Simple as that.

My hope is that whatever Noel and Kogure are hiding is actually something huge and is able to knock the Lups down a peg or two. But I know that's not going to happen. And there's something wrong when I still think Zamigo is one of the most interesting characters even though we've only seen him for a few minutes total out of 32.

[hiro9796]

Magiranger came about entirely because of Harry Potter and Megaranger was hitting the big tech boom so it's not unheard of.

Then where the idea to bring Kyuuranger came from a popular show trend in 2016? Fourze? GranSazer? It's just my guess for the Yossha Lucky Quote and Number of members in the team.

Well, when the PatRangers are able to do anything by themselves, maybe the people of Japan will have more confidence in them.

Would episode 14-15 count? If you exclude the part where Lupins just came to steal their collection pieces. Just wish they made another, or probably not

[Lunagel]

Magiranger came about entirely because of Harry Potter and Megaranger was hitting the big tech boom so it's not unheard of.

Then where the idea to bring Kyuuranger came from a popular show trend in 2016? Fourze? GranSazer? It's just my guess for the Yossha Lucky Quote and Number of members in the team.

Just before Fourze there was a big interest in space because the Hayabusa probe had recently returned to Earth. That was the whole basis for Yuuki's Hayabusa-kun schtick. I'm not saying there's always a reason for certain themes but they do try to hit the waves. Honestly best guess for Kyuuranger would be the popularity of Marvel movies, but that's a bit of a stretch

[takenoko]

Media always tends to be a mirror of the times and culture of when it was made.

GranSazer was absolutely Toho going "We want to make a sentai, but better. Instead of 5 people, let's do 12!"

Ironically, KyuuRanger probably was created with the same thoughts, with about the same lack of success. The space theme was probably because they thought about also doing a Zodiac theme, before deciding to use different constellations. And plus, it could obviously tie in with the Space Squad stuff they were introducing.

Just to be clear, I pulled that all out of my butt, but you can see how a producer could follow that line of reasoning.

[hiro9796]

Then where the idea to bring Kyuuranger came from a popular show trend in 2016? Fourze? GranSazer? It's just my guess for the Yossha Lucky Quote and Number of members in the team.

Just before Fourze there was a big interest in space because the Hayabusa probe had recently returned to Earth. That was the whole basis for Yuuki's Hayabusa-kun schtick. I'm not saying there's always a reason for certain themes but they do try to hit the waves. Honestly best guess for Kyuuranger would be the popularity of Marvel movies, but that's a bit of a stretch

I guess so.

Media always tends to be a mirror of the times and culture of when it was made.

GranSazer was absolutely Toho going "We want to make a sentai, but better. Instead of 5 people, let's do 12!"

Ironically, KyuuRanger probably was created with the same thoughts, with about the same lack of success. The space theme was probably because they thought about also doing a Zodiac theme, before deciding to use different constellations. And plus, it could obviously tie in with the Space Squad stuff they were introducing.

Just to be clear, I pulled that all out of my butt, but you can see how a producer could follow that line of reasoning.

Hahaha. That's quite blunt.

Anyway, with the show, I only watch episode 30-32 today because I learn that Pats aren't using Splash for first time but Lupins did and because 31 and 32 seems linked together so I just want to watch it all together rather than waiting for next week or so. Guess Pats will only have Patkaiser Splash for only one shot later, when Kairi wants to return the favour.

Second, I do like the idea of having the duel. I mean, yeah it contradicts with Kei-chan's character that prioritize Ganglar over Lupins and that was a high-stakes context.
But seeing a desperate Noel trying to bet their identities was something I like to see and he doesn't hide his true intention from Pats. His character was rather smugly to Pats when situation was calm. But at high stakes, not just anyone can keep acting smug as when they were calm and that includes him. It's pretty much happens to anyone in reality. Letting him give away the goal might be worth something. I mean, hypothetically we may get Pats serious background on the second half, who knows but once again, maybe not.

Like Takenoko mentioned, they may have no idea of what to do with Pats background or so. This is just my hypothesis, but what if they actually made Kei-chan a victim of a fire and he learns that incident was caused by a real criminal (not Ganglar but human), would that justisfy his tantrum of stereotyping Lupin as mere criminals and desire to be a strict police officer. Or on the other hand, maybe he can have similar background to Hidari Shoutarou who lost his boss because of wanting quick recognition.

Hypothetically, I just do hope Pats will at least have even one more power up (something like Trigger Machine Ichigou but with different heads), combined that with Goody, Biker and Crane, they can get a new robot because the Pats are the only ones keep using the same face and head while Lupins will have

Spoiler

Six different heads and face

just for Mecha. But it seems too impossible according to some people who claimed because Trigger Machines aren't selling well among children in Japan even with discounts compare to Dial Fighters, is that true, Lunagel?

[Lunagel]

IDK man, I don't have my fingers on the sales figures for those. I will say that as a kid I'd rather play with a toy with the dial than without.

[Fat D]

So, Noel is pretty firmly on the Lupin side and the Patrangers know it. His ties to the French GSPO HQ are all that is keeping him out of prison right now. Well, I guess he could also go fugitive if things turned sour with GSPO Japan, but he would have a much harder time hiding since they know Noel is X, unlike Red/Blue/Yellow.

Kei's reason to demonize the Lupins is their "obstruction of justice", keeping Ganglars alive until their Collection Piece has been retrieved. Cooperation would resolve a lot of that, but as long as the Lupins play the hardened criminal act while under the masks, Kei will find it hard to drop that Javert mindset.

[Go-On Macaroni]

Then where the idea to bring Kyuuranger came from a popular show trend in 2016? Fourze? GranSazer? It's just my guess for the Yossha Lucky Quote and Number of members in the team.

Just before Fourze there was a big interest in space because the Hayabusa probe had recently returned to Earth. That was the whole basis for Yuuki's Hayabusa-kun schtick. I'm not saying there's always a reason for certain themes but they do try to hit the waves. Honestly best guess for Kyuuranger would be the popularity of Marvel movies, but that's a bit of a stretch

Best I can find in regards to what inspired Kyuranger is in Tom Constantine's comments here. Particularly Fact 195 where he states: "195.) Producer Mochizuki told the directors to be a cheerful show like Guardians of the Galaxy".

[Barim]

Hey, it's that quarry/cave again...

How long has it been since they filmed there?

[ViRGE]

Finally catching up here...

So this episode is in one sense a lot of progress. 32 episodes in and the characters are finally, at some level, articulating what the ideological conflict is between the Pats and the Lupins. We've known for a long time that the hazard the Pats pose to the Lupins is that they're not interested in recovering the collection pieces. But now we have a less flimsy reason than vigilantism for why the Lupins are a problem for the Pats: they put the collection pieces above the safety of the public.

This is actually a really good ideological conflict. However I feel like the writers have tripped just short of the finish line here. It shouldn't have taken 32 episodes to get here, and these aspects need to be investigated further.

Why haven't the Lupins ever really struggled with their decision to prioritize the pieces over the people? e.g. let someone get hurt because it was the only way to get the piece. Kei's whole point (and stake in the duel) would have been 10 times more impactful if the Lupins themselves had already addressed the moral issues that come from that.

Similarly, we've seen the Lupins freak out when they thought a collection piece was destroyed. But the fact that they still haven't come clean about their motives - and they're clearly trying to be good people here - means that the Pats have never had to reflect on their own actions either. This episode was the first time where any of that information was shared and where the Pats had to make a decision based off of it; in this case acknowledging that the Lupins may have a good reason to need the pieces. Which again is progress, but it should have come sooner.

Now I'll admit I'm musing about moral quandaries in a kids show. However I don't think anything here is too much for Sentai, especially as past seasons have managed to work in similar issues just fine. So the show could be outright better here.

But from a production point of view, I get it. The Lupins are the heroes, full stop. So they can't be presented as morally ambiguous; they need to be in the clear so that they can be righteous in delivering their justice. As far as Toei seems to be concerned, Morally ambiguous heroes are a Rider thing.

Not to knock the series too hard. I'm still enjoying it. But the Pat vs. Lupin conflict should have been resolved (or at least greatly evolved) by now. It's still moving too slowly, and holding the show back as a result.

Plot aside, I really liked the duel between PatRed and X. It was stupid for all the reasons that Takenoko listed, but in terms of fight choreography it was executed well. And I liked how they didn't sacrifice PatRed's agency in the process; he unambiguously won, and only threw the fight to let the Lupins have their way.

The Don has got to be peeved about losing so many collection pieces at once though. He's been losing them all season, but 5 in one go? It's no longer just a few pieces...

Finally, the first time we saw ClusterKaiser I was worried that Toei wouldn't be able to afford to keep using it, and it looks like I was half-right. The CGI in this episode was not on par with its premiere episode; ignoring the recycled footage, almost all of the new footage in this episode was in "hammer space" (is there a proper term for this?), so the CGI requirements were a lot lower, especially the lighting. And the one new shot in the real world of the kick was not to the same level of quality as the other shots. Otherwise, most of the other new shots were new attack stock footage. All of which is unfortunate, but not unexpected. Assuming we get another new mecha/combination here at some point (since we're only 32 episodes in), I hope we at least get a couple more fights with top-tier CGI.

PS And will they please finally spill the beans on the butler?!

[takenoko]

A lot of great points on the Lupin VS Pat conflict. Agreed!