Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

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Poll ended at Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:01 pm

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Total votes: 19

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Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by takenoko » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:01 pm

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Last week's rating: 4.44 / 5 (9 votes)

Alt Title: Good ideas, bad execution?

So in an episode where identities are exposed, Noel is saved from a commander-level enemy, and said enemy is defeated with a joint effort between Lupin and Pats, why does it feel non-eventful?

Like, some of the stuff is just sort of dumb. The police run in the front door and are taken out, despite knowing it was a trap they made no preparations or attempted any sort of cunning. Then the Lupins do the exact same thing, but succeed since they're the plot heroes.

At least the Pats rescue Noel.

But then the Lupins are forced to reveal their identities... and what? It's not like their families are in danger (or maybe they are?) What are the stakes of their identities being exposed? The public LIKES the LupinRangers. It's supposed to be a big deal, but the way they went about executing this scene just falls flat. Plus, they transform and are masked again 30 seconds later anyway.

I guess Sakuya is disappointed by this, but... it's not like he was dating Umika. Also, he's not Keiichirou, why does this disappoint him? It's not like the setup was him hating the LupinRangers, now he feels betrayed because the woman he loves is the enemy he's been tracking. Also, what's the deal with Umika suddenly caring what Sakuya thinks, since she didn't care for the previous 40 or so episodes before. Seriously, if Kei is okay with the Lupins, there's no reason for Sakuya to react this way about it.

Then Keiichirou is too damaged to sit in a cockpit, but he can still run around and fire his gun. It's not as insulting as Tsukasa fainting, but it's pretty tired and transparent at this point.

Oh yeah, and I guess Gauche shoots her beam and then good guys shoot their beam and Gauche dies.

Oh, and the big boss was there.

They're shaking things up with the mech fight being seen from the Pat's perspective, but despite the gold safe, which they don't ever bother to show as a powerup for the monster, it's sort of a boring mecha battle.

The whole episode has a lot of good ideas on paper, but everything feels thrown together thoughtlessly.

Oh yeah, I wrote in my notes that we finally know why Noel doesn't use the VS vehicles. It's because he configured them to work with humans. Motherfucker, are you putting a gene lock into the devices, because the VS Changers sure don't look like they run a DNA test to make sure the items are being used by a human.

Just going through the episode one last time. I swear, I thought the Lupins were going to keep the masks on and risk Noel's life, since they're whole deal is that no individual member matters, as long as the last one makes the wish on Shenlong. I know they're the heroes so they have to save one of their own, but still...

I just found this episode really frustrating because it could have been something bigger, but felt very by the numbers and unsurprising in the end.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by TypicalStandUser » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:13 am

I do not like the way the wham of the Thieves' unmasking was forced. The plan to rescue Noel should've been executed better without any predictability. Heck, if the Thieves were smart, they'd try to free Noel without negotiations, then Dogranio can unleash his buzzsaws on them so that they'd at least know how fearsome he is. That said, good on both teams in rescuing Noel despite overwhelming attacks from Gauche and the consequences warned by Jeeves and Hilltop.

Aside from Gauche’s own Collection Pieces, there are four new ones featured that Dogranio stole from the 2nd Ganglarstein: Tetsu’s BraceThrottle from Dekaranger, the Dragon head of Shou’s Ryutsueder from Kyuuranger, Signalman’s Signizer from Carranger and the Megarangers’ Battle Riser (Not to be confused with the Power Rangers franchise’s Power Armor trope).

Good old budget scrimping. No stage for this mecha battle. Save up all the models for the last thrashing in the next episodes.

That’s it, Sakuya. Slowly and steadily. Breathe.

Eh episode.

Ayana Taketatsu (Gauche’s voice actress) tweeted recently that she loved playing this role and that she grew from this experience. Hope I can hear her sultry voice in future roles.
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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by HowlingSnail » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:30 pm

That has got to be the worst possible way they could have revealed their identities. Like, they just took their masks off because Dogranio told them to. No real reason to it. Or are we to believe that they genuinely believed doing so would save Noël? Given they then proceeded to bust him out anyway, it was kind of pointless.

Come on, Toei, you've had all year to plan this out. Could you not have given them a genuine reason to unmask themselves?
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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by Kamen Rider Gumo » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:38 pm

I think the unmasking is to show the LupinRangers' growth as characters and showing that they have started to view their comrades who are currently alive and well - PatRangers included - more highly than people from their past who may or may not even be saveable. True they always had the promise that the Collection could bring back their loved ones, and the hope that defeating Zamigo might accomplish the goal anyway, but no solid proof. They were acting entirely on blind faith, nothing more. But in front of them was a proven ally and friend in Noel whose life was hanging in the balance. The police had already been knocked around pretty badly and were in no position to help, but the thieves were given a chance to take Gauche out and save Noel if they just got rid of their masks before they fought.

So they saved Noel's life and defeated Gauche, but this means their identities are now exposed and for all the moral good they have done, they have broken laws in the course of fighting the Ganglars. Breaking-and-entering and general thieving aside, here is a brief list of just what I have counted that they have done in the course of the series:
- Multiple counts of vigilantism (which is heavily frowned upon by almost every government out there) and punished very severely in Japan.
- Illegal possession of weaponry (very, very big no-no, as you can even get in trouble for having a BB or airsoft gun without the right paperwork, to say nothing of better-than-military-grade hardware like laser cannons and combining mecha).
- Public endangerment. Remember all those times that the Lupins got their Collection Piece and decided to just leave the Ganglar to the police? What if the Pats hadn't been able to get there in time to handle it, or if Good Striker didn't have "a good feeling" about the police that day and decided not to help them combine just on a whim? Either situation would have left a still-dangerous monster running loose on the general populace.
- Murder. Flipping the script on the last one, remember all those times that the Lupins decided to destroy the Ganglar and not leave it to the police? Even though said Ganglar was a criminal without any sort of Japanese citizenship engaging in criminal (I would even go so far as to say terrorist) activities and was a genuine danger to public safety, the fact remains that the Lupins don't have any sort of legal authority to pass judgment or mete out punishment and when they destroy a Ganglar, they are willfully terminating the life of another sentient being based on their own determination of whether or not that being deserves to live. That is the textbook definition of murder.
- Destruction of private property. What about all those crushed buildings and trampled cars during the mecha fights? Yes, this happens when the PatRangers are fighting, as well, but in such a case they are at least covered by the fact that they are police officers working to stop a threat to the public and as such any damages incurred by them are taken care of by the government or at the very least some insurance companies. But insurance may not be so quick to pay for damages to property caused by vigilante activity, in which case the owners of those cars and buildings would be shouldering the cost of repairs/replacements, if it were possible at all.
- Multiple accounts of assault on police officers. The numerous, numerous times the Lupins engaged in a shootout or melee combat with the Pats. This one right here is, at minimum, a major felony.

If Japan still had a death penalty, the LupinRangers would qualify for it. If arrested and charged, they would be looking at life sentences without parole. The job of the PatRangers is not JUST to take down the Ganglars like a high-tech SWAT team, but also to ensure public safety and loose cannons like the LupinRangers, to a law enforcement officer, would be a very clear threat to that. Now, by no means am I saying they just discarded the law, did whatever they wanted to and consequences be damned. They have their own goals and reasons for fighting, of course, but they never actively intended for people to be harmed by their hunt for the Collection. The above list is simply as law enforcement and government agencies would see it and why keeping their identities hidden was so important. With their identities out in the open, all that can now come crashing down on them and they have little to no safe place to operate from anymore. What's more, they can't even retreat into obscurity and try to hide among their families, which would have been an option before, because now every relative and known acquaintance can be accounted for and investigated by the police to see if the thieves are hiding among them (also, with identities exposed, it's possible that thsoe same friends and family could now be ID'd and targeted by the Ganglars). While both teams have noble goals in mind, one worked within the confines of the laws and regulations to do so and the other didn't even give a passing thought to those laws in order to do what they felt was the right thing - it's a classic clash between Lawful Good and Chaotic Good and I've honestly enjoyed the small subtleties and nuances of such a conflict sprinkled throughout the series.
Last edited by Kamen Rider Gumo on Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by HowlingSnail » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:55 pm

And I 100% guarantee you the Lupins won't get any sort of punishment, because Toei wouldn't dare have the main characters (Particularly the team they've been trying to push more than the other) locked up and punished for their "heroic" actions.
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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by jamebarktoku » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:53 pm

To be completely honest, I didn't think the writers would actually go through with revealing their identities until the last possible moment. The reveal itself should've had bigger stakes, as they just up and decide to reveal themselves to the world. Sakuya's reaction, at least as I interpret it, stems from him refusing to believe that Kairi and co. are the LupinRangers, which what he spends most of last episode trying to prove wrong. I don't necessarily think Keiichirou and Tsukasa completely believed the evidence either, but Sakuya's willingness to believe in Umika despite it feels pretty genuine, no matter how forced that relationship is.

I think Dogranio getting his vigour back is simply the writers wanting to make him the true final boss of the series, which is fine, but sort of comes out of nowhere. There was no build up to this in Dogranio's character, unless all of that wine finally went to his head.

Kogure annoys me. I think he was better before Noel's introduction, he just seems to be getting more and more antagonistic to the LupinRangers. I think his goal of bringing back Arsene has blinded him.

Pretty good episode, just a lot to be desired here.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by scot64 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:27 pm

I was hoping for a switch as they lowered their hat to find a set of Kogure masks shielding their identities. Dorgranio opening all the safes and suddenly taking back all collection pieces and telling Gauche’s that she has been doing what ever she wanted, now he is doing it. Leaving her to take a stand on her own two feet. I thought Dorgranio had a soft spot for Gauche by the way he let her have so much freedom to plot and play. New Dorgranio plot twists, would have been better around 45 or 46.

Well I guess we now know why Zamigo did not want to be Dorgranio's replacement... he want his old Dorgranio back running the Ganglars, well what's left of them.

So many little things that could have been done to make this even better.

I have really enjoyed this show and I hope that Toei do not cram everything into one last episode. I would like the show to run a few more episode to add a few twists or wrap up the hanging plot twist that have been introduced then left hanging.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by Catastrophe » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:47 pm

So Dogranio is just a massive dickhead?

I hate how underdeveloped the Ganglars are.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by kangchan » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:55 pm

I don't like how Zamigo acted, look like the writer try to make him hide something dangerous, but not. The end of Gauche is worst, I thought Dogranio will treat her better rather than let her die like this.

Simple plot, simple villains with no interest in the end.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by CheetahLynx » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:23 pm

Personally, I really quite liked it, but maybe that's because I'm a complete, absolute sucker for identity reveal situations, for whatever reason. (Don't ask. I don't know either) And this one actually had me shivering, and it's quite a hot night where I live.

My brain says "Give the episode a 3 or 4", but my heart says "Give it a 6".
It really got to me.

Can I give it a 6?
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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by ViRGE » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 pm

After watching this episode I was going to write up a list of reasons that it fell flat. But I see Takenoko beat me to the punch on most of the points I was going to make.:P

The biggest issue is definitely the unmasking. The Don suggests the Lupins take off their masks, and then they just do it. There's no "or else", no explicit threat. The Don isn't holding a knife to Noel's throat or a gun to his head. So there's no clear reason or incentive for the Lupins to do this. It greatly undermines the whole sequence.

If there had been an explicit threat or otherwise forcing the Lupins' hands, then I think it would have been a stronger scene. It also would have done a much better job highlighting their gradual shift over time to valuing their comrades and not just blindly sacrificing everything for their wish.

Past that, I also agree that there just aren't any meaningful stakes to the whole exchange. Other than having go to hide somewhere else, the Lupins aren't put in any kind of grave situation by having their identities known. The public loves them, the police need them, and let's be frank: they have high-grade plot armor. So there's not much of a downside here.

On the plus side, I'm a sucker for the helmetless stuff. It's fantastic to finally see the Lupins in their suits, and I wish we got to see it more often. (And wow does Umika hit a growth spurt when she puts that helmet on! :lol:)

The other big drawback to this episode was the Don taking Gauche's collection pieces just to be a dick. It's inconsistent with his character up until now, and it serves no practical purpose now. It's not as if he's a villain with a code of honor, so he should be pleased to see Gauche doing anything and everything to eliminate the Rangers once and for all. Nothing about that exchange makes sense, other than that it suddenly depowers Gauche so that she can be eliminated. So long, underdeveloped Ganglar #48.

If nothing else, the action was good. They actually used a surprisingly large amount of pyrotechnics indoors there; a lot more than I'd expect to see in a machine room.:o Though when did Noel's trains get the ability to fly?
takenoko wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:01 pm
At least the Pats rescue Noel.
Using their combined form to fake out the Don was the smartest thing anyone has done in at least the last half-dozen episodes. Kudos to the writers for that one.
I guess Sakuya is disappointed by this, but... it's not like he was dating Umika. Also, he's not Keiichirou, why does this disappoint him? It's not like the setup was him hating the LupinRangers, now he feels betrayed because the woman he loves is the enemy he's been tracking. Also, what's the deal with Umika suddenly caring what Sakuya thinks, since she didn't care for the previous 40 or so episodes before. Seriously, if Kei is okay with the Lupins, there's no reason for Sakuya to react this way about it.
I think the issue here is that within the world of the series, it makes Umika & co criminals. Sakuya believed they were good people, and now he's devastated to find out that they're really criminals. It's a bit of fridge logic since the show always portrays the Lupins as heroes anyhow. But within the show's logic, they are bad people from the POV of the police.
Then Keiichirou is too damaged to sit in a cockpit, but he can still run around and fire his gun. It's not as insulting as Tsukasa fainting, but it's pretty tired and transparent at this point.
Yeah, that was pretty bad. The shared mecha body thing has not worked well for the series, and complicating matters the relatively late introduction of Lupin Magnum (which I'm convinced is the most forgettable toy ever) means that Toei needs to show it off. So the Lupins can fill their own 3 man band of mecha.
Oh yeah, I wrote in my notes that we finally know why Noel doesn't use the VS vehicles. It's because he configured them to work with humans. Motherfucker, are you putting a gene lock into the devices, because the VS Changers sure don't look like they run a DNA test to make sure the items are being used by a human.
At least Toei tried to answer the question. They're magical trinkets that turn you into a superhero; so if it scans your DNA that would be a fraction as fantastical as the whole superhero thing.:P
Kamen Rider Gumo wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:38 pm
So they saved Noel's life and defeated Gauche, but this means their identities are now exposed and for all the moral good they have done, they have broken laws in the course of fighting the Ganglars. Breaking-and-entering and general thieving aside, here is a brief list of just what I have counted that they have done in the course of the series:
At no point here are you wrong. But I feel like this lacks context? The Ganglars are not some kind of human criminal gang that the police can handle. They are extra-dimensional monsters invading the Earth; there is no ambiguity about who they are or the threat they pose. They are pure, 100% evil.

If Japan was at war and being invaded, no one would blink an eye if someone shot an invader. Similarly, the idea that anyone has a problem with the Lupins taking out the invaders is far fetched, even for this show. These are monsters, and anything anyone can do to take them out makes the world a better place.

Anti-vigilante laws are about maintaining the peace and ensuring justice is properly served when both belligerents are civilians. That all goes out the window when one side is an alien invasion.:P

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by Kuchiri » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:03 pm

I feel like this would be better if Dogranio would say after the first mention to remove the masks. That he will give them a chance to save Noel. Then after the first hesitation tell Gauche to hack away. Sort of like. Your identities or your friend. That would've made for a bit more dramatic reveal. Aside from that, the main way monsters grew big is dead. We have officially hit the Endgame of Lupin.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by takenoko » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:34 am

ViRGE wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 pm
I think the issue here is that within the world of the series, it makes Umika & co criminals. Sakuya believed they were good people, and now he's devastated to find out that they're really criminals. It's a bit of fridge logic since the show always portrays the Lupins as heroes anyhow. But within the show's logic, they are bad people from the POV of the police.
But even if though Sakuya fights the Lupins as part of his job, he's never been portrayed as someone with any sort of belief that the Lupins are criminals. Sure, he's never been an occasional ally like Tsukasa, but he's never portrayed as being bullheaded like Keiichirou.

I guess by the logic of the show, we're supposed to feel like Sakuya just learned the woman that he loves is actually Catwoman. But in the reality of the show, it's more like learning the woman he loves is a part of Robin Hood's gang.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by Catastrophe » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:25 am

I guess its more that he trusted that she wasn't but was wrong.

I mean, it's not like he asked and she lied or anything, but I get how they were trying to play it.

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Re: Lupin VS Pat 48 Released!

Post by ViRGE » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:39 am

Catastrophe wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:25 am
I mean, it's not like he asked and she lied or anything, but I get how they were trying to play it.
Yeah. It's another plot point that the show has kind of tripped over in the process.:(

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