KR Zi-O 01 released

It's pronounced Ji Oh. AKA Kamen Rider Double Decade
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Ratings

Poll ended at Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:29 pm

☆☆☆☆☆
10
29%
☆☆☆☆
12
34%
☆☆☆
6
17%
☆☆
2
6%
5
14%
 
Total votes: 35

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by LiLAsN » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:53 pm

I agree. I just can't believe in a story where the kid says, I want to be a king. What? A demon king? Sure. I'll be one. But then, I'm a kind demon king. Uh... Ok.. that's so not believable.
I also agree that the introduction really does remind me of Decade. I just hope it doesn't end with Decade's incomplete ending.

As for the original poster's question on why his voice is different, well, it is a 2068 Zi-O. Not a 2018 Zi-O. Of course he will have an old matured man's voice.

I can't wait to see how Den-O and Zi-O will meet seeing as both can travel through time.

My only gripe is the main actor looks like all looks but no substance. His acting was just poor and clueless while Geiz and even the other main characters before him have believable characters. This is much more noticeable when his Kamen Rider stunt man moves about and expresses a lot more than the main character himself.
I understand that they have been recruiting fresh young models with the potential to act and these people are starting their career through Kamen Rider. But a model that is bad at acting with only a face to show is just sad.

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by takenoko » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:03 pm

Sinkuu wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:39 pm
(btw, you guys got this out QUICK for a 1st ep... I know you usually take longer with getting stuff established. nice work!)
Yeah, I dunno, it didn't seem like we had many issues to discuss this time around. There were certainly some contentious points, but maybe the dialogue was just simple? I complained about how I hate the uncle's story that lacked any detail right?

>So uh, if Zi-o defeats the kid pulled out of time from the timeline where they die by not-Kai... does that like, kill them?

I dunno, they show his body but it's ambiguous as to whether he survived or not. Kind of feel like lazy writing to not address it then and there?

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by stardrago » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:16 pm

Say, is the 1.5 special to be released separately? Also, isn't it supposed to be Ziku-Driver and Zikan Girade as seen at the tv-asahi pages?
Last edited by stardrago on Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by Arigomi » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:24 pm

I don't like how Sougo's dream of becoming a king is framed as a coming-of-age story. The way he becomes Zi-O feels entirely unearned.

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by TypicalStandUser » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:41 pm

takenoko wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:44 am
Is it Hindu? I thought it was more Arabic/Middle Eastern. Sort of like a sands of time kind of thing?
Perhaps so. I initially thought it was Hindu due to the guitar style.
Oh a mysterious villain. No name, makes monster Kamen Riders. Do we know what he wants or why he does anything? Nope.
The Jackers are advertised as "so-called Freedom fighters with ulterior motives to change the timeline". Likely chaotic evil, maybe that one group of the future resistance that went batshit crazy.
Also, why does future Zi-O have a totally different voice? My guess is that Oma Zi-O is a totally different character than Zi-O and they'll have to fight in the future.

Also also, will we see Sougo 50 years after or is he going to stay behind a mask throughout that portion of the story?
Because Rikiya Koyama is awesome. I hope can play Old!Sougo, like Masakazu Morita as pre-digital Banno.
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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by njb » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:51 pm

stardrago wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:16 pm
Say, is the 1.5 special to be released separately? Also, isn't it supposed to be Ziku-Driver and Zikan Girade, as well as Time Mazine as seen at the tv-asahi pages?
Here you go again. -_-
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- KR Decade, Double, OOO, Fourze, Wizard, Gaim, Ghost, Amazons, Drive, Ex-Aid, Build, Zi-O

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by ViRGE » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:17 am

As several people have already noted, this episode moved incredibly quickly. And I don't envy Toei or the Zio staff here, as there is a ton of stuff they have to get done and in short order. Just establishing the fictional universe is a tall order, never mind all the toys they have to promote on top of that.

Consequently however, when you move this quickly it's hard to get a feel for the series itself. How much of the story was one-and-done setup, and how much of it is recurring themes/tropes that we'll be seeing week after week? I don't know. So it's hard to evaluate the series itself. I suppose as of right now it hasn't done anything terribly great, but it also hasn't done anything terribly poorly. The show is very much in a holding pattern right now.

As for the OP, it's so-so. It's not especially remarkable. Better than Build's, but nowhere near the best Toei has ever done.

Just please don't be Decade. For the love of all that's holy, I can't handle another season of that.

And just to clarify, is Zi-O a Heisei rider? The OP makes it sound like he's not

PS We don't even make it through the first episode before seeing Toei's Edo Japan backlot. Everyone take a shot!

PPS The world spinning during transformations is going to get old really quickly
takenoko wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:29 pm
Also, why does future Zi-O have a totally different voice? I mean, Geiz sort of looks like Zi-O too. My guess is that Oma Zi-O is a totally different character than Zi-O and they'll have to fight in the future.
I think it's fair to say that the hero of the show won't become the king of evil. So whatever Oma Zi-O is, it isn't the true Sougo.
TypicalStandUser wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:04 pm
Hey production crew... WRONG sound for T-Rex. It's no elephant!
Right? They could have gotten away with pretty much anything else. But no one is buying that a T-rex is making an elephant sound.
takenoko wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:44 am
Is it Hindu? I thought it was more Arabic/Middle Eastern. Sort of like a sands of time kind of thing?
I also thought it was Arabic. But admittedly I'm not cultured enough to tell the different. Either way, it's very different from anything they've used so far, which I want to give Toei credit for. However it's also so different that it feels out of place. It's cultural music, and a show full of east Asian dudes is not that culture.
hamn8rjr wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:48 pm
so I'm kinda liking it right now. that guy who saved the B-Ball player. the way he moved and all that reminded me of Grimlin from Wizard. I'm not the only one right?
No, you're not alone. He seemed very Grimlin-like.
Kurokage X wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:43 pm
So the guy wants to be king. That goal seems ridiculous and even if he has the capacity to do it, without his rider powers, I say take over England or any country with a monarchy if you want that.
Agreed. I mean this is a fictitious show, so there needs to be a certain suspension of disbelief. But the main character is running around saying he wants to be king, and no one is taking it seriously enough to put a stop to it? I guess they're trying to work the angle that he wants that kind of power to make the world a better place, but it feels detached somewhere. Until the very end he never says why he wants to be king - and thus try to rationalize his absurd dream - rather he sounds like a kid who's been huffing a little too much aerosolized clock grease.

And speaking of kings, does Demon King mean something different in Japan than it does in the rest of the world? Because if I were going to become a benevolent king, I would not be calling myself the demon king. That is pretty much exactly what you'd call an evil, tyrannical leader.

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by ViRGE » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:33 am

LiLAsN wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:19 pm
All in all, the intro music is nice. However the hindu music feels out of place for a battle soundtrack. Doesn't feel 'epic' as was intended. Doesn't blend well with the fight scene.
I feel sad though. This is the year 2018 and going forwards, the same video will be archived mostly for future viewers as well and not just current viewers. However, the video is so heavily compressed on an encoding level that no MadVR upscaling software and even my 4K OLED upscaling can help upscale an already pixelated video at the source level. Look at the scene of the rooftops at 8:20, the snapshot that someone took at the 00:17 mark, as well as the transformation scene at 19:47. The video looks too soft in both instances even though it was encoded at 1080p while the rooftop scene is inhabiting the weird 'netting' effect that was only seen in the DVD era days such as the DVD of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban where the field of grass scene in the beginning will show the same netting effect not seen in actual 1080p blu-ray.

The higher the bitrate such as the other source video that I got it from was only 720p sadly. However, the high bitrate makes up for the lower resolution. Similarly, some 4K movie sources that are encoded below 20GB exhibits softer video overall with lesser details surprisingly than a 1080p Blu-ray source due to the high bitrate that I have had compared to before as well.

But this is just my personal feedback. Still love the animation subtitle effects you guys put in the video. It just blends so well with the video. And that is why I use them for archiving. But there has been no improvement of video source encoding over the years. The loss of detail will get quite noticeable as TV size gets bigger as well as resolution increases. Just my 2 cents. Hope it leads to an improvement.

Here's the comparison between the 1080p T-N source (has TV station watermark) vs a high bitrate 720p source.
So I admittedly had to read this a couple of times before I could completely grok it, especially with the stream-of-consciousness style writing (I'm guessing you're not a native English speaker?). But the screenshots were a big help, and now I can see what you're talking about.

Takenoko & co can talk a lot more about the capping and encoding process. But you're definitely on to something. There's a rather significant difference in image sharpness between those images.

On paper, the bitrate TV-N uses here should be adequate. It could arguably stand to be a bit higher, but with a high quality encoder (e.g. x264 in Slow mode), that should be a reasonable bitrate to work with.

My gut feeling then is that the difference is due to the source rather than the TV-N encode process. That the image was already soft before TV-N even gets it. And this gets into Japanese broadcast specifics that I'm not really familiar with; particularly why your second copy doesn't have the TV Asahi watermark. Is KR rebroadcast later on without that water mark? Or is Toei offering digital downloads? I'm very curious where that raw came from, as that would probably explain what's going on.

As for the Edo lot roof, that's not a matter of bitrate but rather it's a moire pattern. Typically it's a sign of either a bad scaler or a bad deinterlacer. The 1080p encode doesn't need scaled, so that should rule out the former and point to the latter. I'm assuming KR is being broadcast in 1080i, so it needs IVTC'd back to 24fps. But something seems like it was thrown for a loop there. In either case, if it is a deinterlacing problem, then there's a good chance the root cause can be fixed.

Overall though if these screenshots are accurate, then there's definitely room for improvement in the processing chain.

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by takenoko » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:41 am

stardrago wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:16 pm
Say, is the 1.5 special to be released separately? Also, isn't it supposed to be Ziku-Driver and Zikan Girade as seen at the tv-asahi pages?
What 1.5 stuff?

I went with the audio pronunciation for the items since changing all the ji to zi seemed like it would be confusing and unnecessary. Maybe somewhere down the line they'll show the names spelled out, but they didn't in episode 1.

>The Jackers are advertised as "so-called Freedom fighters with ulterior motives to change the timeline". Likely chaotic evil, maybe that one group of the future resistance that went batshit crazy.

Well, that should be in the episode itself.

>As for the OP, it's so-so. It's not especially remarkable. Better than Build's, but nowhere near the best Toei has ever done.

I liked Be The One so much better. I watched the music video for this and my first reaction to it was "WTF did I just see"

Maybe we should start a poll for guessing what the music is supposed to be.

>Overall though if these screenshots are accurate, then there's definitely room for improvement in the processing chain.

Hey, I'm open to suggestions. The source video is a ts stream so that's a source source as far as videos go.

Our avisynth script:
DGDecode_mpeg2source("KRZi-O01.d2v", info=3)
tfm()

saved=last
crop(0,150,-0,-400)
TDecimate(clip2=saved)

Spline36Resize(1920,1080)
ChangeFPS(23.976)

The middle stuff we use to fix the framerate since that stuff gets fucked up from the variable framerate and the text going by at the top and bottom of episodes.

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by ViRGE » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:42 am

takenoko wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:41 am
I watched the music video for this and my first reaction to it was "WTF did I just see"
Wait, was that the official music video for the song? They aren't staging a proper video with the band this year? :shock: I figured it was some kind of promo thing...
Maybe we should start a poll for guessing what the music is supposed to be.
I feel like we need a music major here to actually break down what we're hearing. At least for me, I'm way out of my element.
Hey, I'm open to suggestions. The source video is a ts stream so that's a source source as far as videos go.
Appreciated.:) I think first and foremost we need comparable frames taken from the master recording to compare to LiLAsN's screenshots. Along with info about where LiLAsN's raw came from. That way we could at least isolate the matter to being a source problem or an encode problem.

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by njb » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:33 am

takenoko wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:41 am
stardrago wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:16 pm
Say, is the 1.5 special to be released separately? Also, isn't it supposed to be Ziku-Driver and Zikan Girade as seen at the tv-asahi pages?
What 1.5 stuff?
Web exclusive series released at TTFC. The episodes will be numbered 1.5, 2.5, etc, I think. Basically behind-the-scenes stuff:

https://www.kamen-rider-official.com/collections/20/1

in the information section near the bottom
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- KR Decade, Double, OOO, Fourze, Wizard, Gaim, Ghost, Amazons, Drive, Ex-Aid, Build, Zi-O

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by Catastrophe » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:59 am

I wonder if Kai from Den-O was a time jacker?

Nah, they won't bother tying that in.

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by Snarkwing » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:12 am

The comparisons to Tsukasa I feel are inaccurate.

This is just Takaharu Igasaki All over again, only in mild variety instead of "i'm burning up" spicy. Same idiot proclamations. Same ultimately Destructive goal that he has no understanding of in how badly it would screw over others. He could easily come to be shown as a selfish and myopic individual you don't see changing from the coming interactions with past heroes which is what the story needs to do to work...even though Tsukasa, the archetype they're clearly going for with this show, WAS influenced to change and grow in Decade. It was a merit to the character that even though he invaded the various reboots of rider stories, he still saw some merit to each of the heroes to bridge their respective connections, and used that in his reason-you-suck speeches.
Now Some selfish heroes work (Souji Tendou), but part of the fun with them is getting them to break out of that as, Say, Ryuga last series did...And you certainly have not gotten that from this writer/Producer team, as we've seen before where they demonize those trying to inflict change or reality onto a protagonist, and glorify their preferred hero over their seniors No matter how awfully they need to write that senior to do so. See: the Taisen films or Kento Shimoyama's various penned 'teamups'.

Though As usual, the TVN team does a better job at the nuance of the dialogue. I watched Overtime's sub of this for an early opinion on it, and in the TVN version Sougo can at least acknowledge it'd be a bad thing if he went evil. It's not much, but the O-T one where he just shrugs off the concern as if it didn't matter to him at all made me instantly flash back to Takaharu wanting to be the last ninja...while not realizing as everyone else did early on that it'd mean killing Grandpa jerkface. With Sougo, I at least feel he has a limited Idea of how he could screw up, but just can't resist the temptation to get everything he wanted....even though we are given zero understanding for why he'd want that.

Hell, with this character? He could have actually listen To Tsukuyomi, and thrown away the Ziku Driver and ridewatch after being told. There, if he's truly the one that's to become Ohma Zioh, then that ends everything, and he can do something different to claim his dumb 'king' title. Story over. No need for the Alternative riders and the rogue time Jackers, Geiz can deal with those and fix that up...as he already seems to be doing considering he starts out with Ghost and Drive's ridewatches. Then if you want to continue, have him then be faced with a crisis like the MOTW attacking helpless people making him decide to transform to help people. Then you've got a better Idea that he's going to be in conflict over the desires which lead him to becoming Ohma, and better angels of his nature that act as his true motivation for wanting a meaningless title.

Also: Kyoryuger did the 'king' thing better. Daigo earned that title through noble conduct and acting in stewardship of safety of the world, it wasn't one he sought out. Kings are supposed to serve the people, not the other way around after all. It's why seeking the title over anything else is generally a moniker of a Fool or awful individual. See: Galavant for that. Or even One Piece, where Luffy could care less about conquest in his journey to become the 'king of the pirates', but what it represents in being the most Free Man in the world, and expressing that in how he helps others from tyranny and subjugation on his own King's Journey.

Gaping Plothole everyone seems to be missing: How did Sougo visit Sento and Ryuga in 2017? As was explained JUST LAST EPISODE, That the world Build created--presumably now fused with the previous Main rider Earth everything else has happened on since Decade's Timeline Crunch--resulted in Build's story being wiped away with Sento and Ryuga the only ones fully aware of what happened as they weren't integrated retroactively into a skywall-less earth like everyone else was.
So Sougo Literally can't go and visit their time and story, it doesn't exist in the world he's part of. And if their time machines can jump to other world-tracks, then it ENTIRELY defeats the purpose of the various factions missions to either stop or preserve the timeline ruled by Ohma Zioh...as it already exists and their actions will have no affect on it.
Or in Short, Their story only works if they're working off "Back To The Future" Time Travel Logic, but by evidence they're working off of Dragonball Time travel logic in that traveling to the past changes NOTHING about the future.

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by swb90 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:54 am

tsukuyomi is really pretty and her fashion sense is top notch!

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Re: KR Zi-O 01 released

Post by ryujin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:50 am

Final form is a gold watch?

Theme song is bitchin', better than Ex-Aid IMO, but i still prefer Build.

"Screw college, I wanna be a king?", a king of what exactly?, Jesus freaking Christ this kid is an idiot, i can even see his uncles disappointing sigh when he was about to give Sougo the special exams papers and it was turned down, hell, that judo guy had more sense than the main character, he should have thrown Sougo all the way down the concrete stairs, maybe that'll wake him up to reality and forget about this king bullcrap, go freaking help your uncle pay the bills and get a job you freeloader lol!

Woz is Ankh?, complete with book, hairdo and hands hero stuff lol!

Future tech Time Mazine vs. bicycle and the bicycle still got away, why not run him over?, he's basically in a bike or just bring down the roof and crush him, it's really not that hard with a giant flying robot or Geiz' piloting skills just suck.

Cretaceous era my ass, the grass looks like it's taken good care of, or the cavemen in that era has some serious gardening skills lol!

I assumed Geiz will be using secondary rider watches like DiEnd, it's surprising he's already got a main rider watch like Ghost.

It's just me, but i only like the show because of Tsukuyomi (assuming the show gets better than this 1st episode), apart from being pretty and easy in the eyes, she made the 1st episode watchable :), Sougo was as hollow as a rotting tree, Geiz was your average anti-hero, Woz gets points for being this series Ankh and that "kid in blue" looks like a girl at first glance in the opening.

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