KR Zi-O 05 released

[Ryouga]

It clicked in my head the link is "fourze and faiz" aka four and five shame then that it wasn't episode 4 and 5 that would of made more sense.

[ryujin]

The show really needs to explain this 2 riders not co-existing in 1 universe thing more, is this loosely based on physics, specifically the "Pauli exclusion principle" (googled it lol) where 2 same objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time, yes i've seen 2.5 but why are they not co-existing?, the Other Riders were made when the Original Riders are already present, Originals Build, Ex-Aid & Fourze where already there so what makes the Other Riders so special that they overwrite the existing Original Riders timeline when they're made, it's not like the Other Riders were made before the Original Riders cause that would have made more sense, yet when they make the Other Riders in the presence of an Original, then poof, the Originals powers are gone?

Nice to see Takumi Inui back, you can count on Kendo Hanta to reprise his role again for the xth time while others just doesn't have the time anymore or can't afford them, his presence alone just made this episode great, and yeah, for the first time, i liked the new armor, who doesn't like transforming armors

I'm saying it, my fave rider Mizushima Hiro is never gonna be in this show

Woz is da man, can't stop him from making Sougo become Oma Zi-O

The look on Uhr's face with a candy bar in one hand LOL!, Schwartz reminds me of Heart

[windfall]

Takumi, WHY are you alive?

If your story (that involved you dying at the end) was suddenly erased, then you could be alive too.

The show really needs to explain this 2 riders not co-existing in 1 universe thing more, is this loosely based on physics, specifically the "Pauli exclusion principle" (googled it lol) where 2 same objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time, yes i've seen 2.5 but why are they not co-existing?, the Other Riders were made when the Original Riders are already present, Originals Build, Ex-Aid & Fourze where already there so what makes the Other Riders so special that they overwrite the existing Original Riders timeline when they're made, it's not like the Other Riders were made before the Original Riders cause that would have made more sense, yet when they make the Other Riders in the presence of an Original, then poof, the Originals powers are gone?

The idea behind it is that when they create another riders, it changes history such that the original riders and their stories as we saw them never happened. It's a pretty big stretch to believe that they still would've formed the kamen rider club with the same members and Ryusei transferring, but gotta get those nostalgia call backs somehow. I suppose this version of the kamen rider club was formed to investigate urban legends as opposed to supporting Fourze and protecting the school so at least that's changed.

[Snarkwing]

The show really needs to explain this 2 riders not co-existing in 1 universe thing more, is this loosely based on physics, specifically the "Pauli exclusion principle" (googled it lol) where 2 same objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time, yes i've seen 2.5 but why are they not co-existing?, the Other Riders were made when the Original Riders are already present, Originals Build, Ex-Aid & Fourze where already there so what makes the Other Riders so special that they overwrite the existing Original Riders timeline when they're made, it's not like the Other Riders were made before the Original Riders cause that would have made more sense, yet when they make the Other Riders in the presence of an Original, then poof, the Originals powers are gone?

The idea behind it is that when they create another riders, it changes history such that the original riders and their stories as we saw them never happened. It's a pretty big stretch to believe that they still would've formed the kamen rider club with the same members and Ryusei transferring, but gotta get those nostalgia call backs somehow. I suppose this version of the kamen rider club was formed to investigate urban legends as opposed to supporting Fourze and protecting the school so at least that's changed.

I think He's referring to the fact that the show's treating it as power cloning doesn't work and only one powerset can exist at a time. This being something that doesn't make sense as MANY kamen Rider have had power cloning take place and multiples of the same rider powerset existing--that's a trope in the franchise that goes back to Takeshi Hongo. Sento and Shinobu both using Build drivers to be Build simultaneously, if albeit in different forms of Build's powerset back in Build for example is a very recent example. Or the fact that Multiple Agito can exist at the same time. Or the Kivat family all generate basically the same armors among their members. Or that any of the technological riders gears can be mass produced without problem such as in the case of the Sengoku Drivers, Drive and Mach Driver Honou's, Lost Driver's, etcetera. If it can be mass- or re-produced or others can independently develop those powers, then the 'two riders cannot coexist' rule doesn't make sense, as they have done that previously without problem on numerous occasions. You Could even count the many times The legend Rider tie-in items and armors became things of previous precedent of power cloning. Usually in those situations we have a contrast in characterization and values to who the 'true' one bearing those abilities belong the title of Rider.
But the show has put the emphasis on the powerset mattering, not the character of the user or their personal story while endowed with those powers.

I think the only cases where we'd have a unique powerset where this would be a problem would be Amazon, Black/RX, Kuuga, the Board Riders, W (Phillip required as a component), and potentially Ghost depending how you quantified the 'Ore' Eyecon. As each have a limited number of the required Artifacts or empowered individuals that are needed for their transformations that can't be replicated or manufactured.

It ADDITIONALLY does not make sense because of how the ridewatches work, in that the ride armor is basically doing the same thing that the Another's are doing, taking the powerset of the related rider for themselves and changing time so it's sealed within it. If two of the same powerset can not co-exist, then Zi-O and Geiz should never be able to fight the Another using the related theme to defeat them, but instead require their defeat in order to get that powerup.

Ryujin, the Pauli exclusion principle wouldn't quite work in this case, as the Another's have the powers of the Rider they are based on, but not their equipment. If they had the exact quantum state as the original, then they would just be recycling the old Rider suits as the primary antagonists instead of making the 'another' suits, as the Anothers are a distinct, different existence.
...Actually, doing both might've been better, have them steal the powers, but due to the 'corrupted time' nature of how they got them, when they show themselves an unworthy replacement in the face of time they could've then 'molted' into the twisted from of an Another Rider. Show that a few times, then default to them just spawning into the corrupted state.

[The3rdCorinthian]

Takumi, WHY are you alive?

If your story (that involved you dying at the end) was suddenly erased, then you could be alive too.

Takumi's an Orphenoc. He got into an accident as a Kid that killed him and would have caused him to revive as an orphenoc. It's why he can use the Faiz gear in the first place.

If this episode is any indication, everything relating to a rider is erased, including past villains.

This implies that there are no orphenocs, so Takumi died as a kid.

Also, there's no reason he should even know Kusaka. They only ended up meeting because of Stuff that happened in Faiz and a need to find the Kaixa gear.

But then again, this is Shinichiro Shirakura producing this, and we saw what happened when he tried to get away with this in KRT and GP. The guy loves retconning stuff.

And if the preview is any indication, I'm not entirely sure if they remembered that Kusaka is meant to be a Villain.

[Phoenix512]

I'm pretty sure when Another Rider is created that the villains they fight disappeared as well ie Scorpio Zodiarts suddenly disappearing after Another Fourze was created. Since we know that about every Rider in existence is powered by the same thing that the villains are, Timejackers are effectively making the villains non-existence as well the Riders themselves.

[windfall]

Y'all are expecting a lot more logical consistency from a children's show that's bringing together 20 years of disparate and incompatible storylines. So far they've done enough explaining for me to accept the hand waving of everything else. I'm just enjoying the ride and not going to get bogged down with the details too much.

Takumi's an Orphenoc. He got into an accident as a Kid that killed him and would have caused him to revive as an orphenoc. It's why he can use the Faiz gear in the first place.

If this episode is any indication, everything relating to a rider is erased, including past villains.

This implies that there are no orphenocs, so Takumi died as a kid.

Also, there's no reason he should even know Kusaka. They only ended up meeting because of Stuff that happened in Faiz and a need to find the Kaixa gear.

But then again, this is Shinichiro Shirakura producing this, and we saw what happened when he tried to get away with this in KRT and GP. The guy loves retconning stuff.

And if the preview is any indication, I'm not entirely sure if they remembered that Kusaka is meant to be a Villain.

Or it could have been a change in time far enough in the past to butterfly effect its way such that he never died as a child.

[Kurokage X]

ok you guys have fun with Zi-O I can't take this show anymore.

[ryujin]

The idea behind it is that when they create another riders, it changes history such that the original riders and their stories as we saw them never happened. It's a pretty big stretch to believe that they still would've formed the kamen rider club with the same members and Ryusei transferring, but gotta get those nostalgia call backs somehow. I suppose this version of the kamen rider club was formed to investigate urban legends as opposed to supporting Fourze and protecting the school so at least that's changed.

I think He's referring to the fact that the show's treating it as power cloning doesn't work and only one powerset can exist at a time. This being something that doesn't make sense as MANY kamen Rider have had power cloning take place and multiples of the same rider powerset existing--that's a trope in the franchise that goes back to Takeshi Hongo. Sento and Shinobu both using Build drivers to be Build simultaneously, if albeit in different forms of Build's powerset back in Build for example is a very recent example. Or the fact that Multiple Agito can exist at the same time. Or the Kivat family all generate basically the same armors among their members. Or that any of the technological riders gears can be mass produced without problem such as in the case of the Sengoku Drivers, Drive and Mach Driver Honou's, Lost Driver's, etcetera. If it can be mass- or re-produced or others can independently develop those powers, then the 'two riders cannot coexist' rule doesn't make sense, as they have done that previously without problem on numerous occasions. You Could even count the many times The legend Rider tie-in items and armors became things of previous precedent of power cloning. Usually in those situations we have a contrast in characterization and values to who the 'true' one bearing those abilities belong the title of Rider.
But the show has put the emphasis on the powerset mattering, not the character of the user or their personal story while endowed with those powers.

I think the only cases where we'd have a unique powerset where this would be a problem would be Amazon, Black/RX, Kuuga, the Board Riders, W (Phillip required as a component), and potentially Ghost depending how you quantified the 'Ore' Eyecon. As each have a limited number of the required Artifacts or empowered individuals that are needed for their transformations that can't be replicated or manufactured.

It ADDITIONALLY does not make sense because of how the ridewatches work, in that the ride armor is basically doing the same thing that the Another's are doing, taking the powerset of the related rider for themselves and changing time so it's sealed within it. If two of the same powerset can not co-exist, then Zi-O and Geiz should never be able to fight the Another using the related theme to defeat them, but instead require their defeat in order to get that powerup.

Ryujin, the Pauli exclusion principle wouldn't quite work in this case, as the Another's have the powers of the Rider they are based on, but not their equipment. If they had the exact quantum state as the original, then they would just be recycling the old Rider suits as the primary antagonists instead of making the 'another' suits, as the Anothers are a distinct, different existence.
...Actually, doing both might've been better, have them steal the powers, but due to the 'corrupted time' nature of how they got them, when they show themselves an unworthy replacement in the face of time they could've then 'molted' into the twisted from of an Another Rider. Show that a few times, then default to them just spawning into the corrupted state.

Nice

You make a great point in the ridewatches, which is also another question mark in this series, it's like Kabuto all over again with the Zecters, if the entirety of the Original Riders powers are then transferred to Another Rider anyway, then there's supposed to be nothing to seal in those watches if Another Riders just overwrite and erase it's (Rider Powers) entire existence, isn't what this show is all about, are they gonna pull off another non-sensical gibberish like, the "will" of the original power of the rider still exists so they can use it as ridewatches?

[kangchan]

Time travel and logical in this series like trash, if compare with Den-O. Now I understand how they PR this series is "Rewrite history of Heisei Rider", yes, just use Another Rider and Heisei Rider will be remove their existing, to buff Zi-O to become New King of Kamen Rider, Ultimate Rider in history Heisei Rider.

So it's fun? I hate KR Decade but Decade made better x10 times than this series.

But then again, this is Shinichiro Shirakura producing this, and we saw what happened when he tried to get away with this in KRT and GP. The guy loves retconning stuff.

Chief Producer of this show is Sasaki Motoi (from TV Asahi), who produced KR Ex-Aid, KR Build (also Kyuranger, LuPat). Shirakura Shinichirou and Takebe Naomi under his control in concept and how story progress.

[Go-On Macaroni]

But then again, this is Shinichiro Shirakura producing this, and we saw what happened when he tried to get away with this in KRT and GP. The guy loves retconning stuff.

Chief Producer of this show is Sasaki Motoi (from TV Asahi), who produced KR Ex-Aid, KR Build (also Kyuranger, LuPat). Shirakura Shinichirou and Takebe Naomi under his control in concept and how story progress.

TV Asahi may have gotten a boost in relevance nowadays but, there's no denying that Shirakura has his influence already deep in it.

> Geiz's repetitive "Subete ga taosu"
> Ex-Aid attacking the other Riders at the end of episode 3
> 3.5 stating that the end of the show will have a Rider War to "determine the true king".

A lot of these are Shirakura tropes that he's not being the least bit subtle about.

[Catastrophe]

They're all overdone as well. It doesn't bode well.

[LiLAsN]

I am soooooo glad that they are finally rushing things along. Look at it this way. There are now 19 riders + Zi-O.
If they had to do 2 episodes per Kamen Rider, that will be 38 episodes.
Then, there would have been no time for Zi-O's own first, second and third power ups.

Sad that some of the actors did not want to fill their roles again. Nevertheless Swortz looks like a slightly different time jacker due to his powers. Probably higher up in the chain.

For reference, in a typical fashion of these 2nd gen Heisei Kamen Riders, there would be a power up every quarter provided there are around 48 episodes. So episode 9-12 is the first power up, then 18-24 will be second followed by the final one around 33-38

[ryujin]

^ That's assuming Fourze and Faiz will run for a total of 4 episodes, but since they can't get Fukushi Sota, they basically rushed this Another Rider into a 2-in-1, unless of course they extend the Faiz part of the story since Kendo Hanta & Murakami Kohei is there reprising their roles

[Catastrophe]

They'll probably push the phase 2 rider watches before the end of the first quarter, then hopefully have a lull around Q2.