KR Zi-O 16 released

It's pronounced Ji Oh. AKA Kamen Rider Double Decade
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Ratings

Poll ended at Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:23 pm

☆☆☆☆☆
5
28%
☆☆☆☆
8
44%
☆☆☆
4
22%
☆☆
0
No votes
1
6%
 
Total votes: 18

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takenoko
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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by takenoko » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:46 am

Image

Thanks for pointing that out, I totally didn't notice it before.

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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by Xivitai » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:14 am

Kuchiri wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:01 pm
Xivitai wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:13 am


And miss a chance to sell more merchandise? Nah, it's not the way they roll. They just hired ppl who don't know they way around franchise...
I thought... it was established before. Decade don't give no fucks.
Also more than likely whatever gave him a significant power jump has allowed him to streamline all the powers without needing form rides. Nothing said in-universe that Wizard had to be in different forms to use the power, it could've been a limitation of his power at that time. That's probably why Oma-ZIo just needs to touch the ride watches to use their power instead of inserting them into the belt. He had 50 years of rider powers. Give Decade another twenty years and he probably wouldn't need Ride Cards.
Wizard's basic and Dragon styles are limited that way. It was made on purpose by Wiseman, so Wizard would be unable to oppose him. The only form that is beyond such limitations is Infinity, which is Wizard's real form. So, Decade using those forms not in the way they are intended to be is bad writing.
Catastrophe wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:47 pm
I'm not on board with this. There is just such such flip flopping with the characters. Geiz gets what he wanted. Oma Zi-O is gone and it was easy enough and then he's the one to get Zi-O to change his mind back?
Geiz is one of those who all bark and no bite. He had numerous chances to kill Sougo even without using his rider powers - killing him in his sleep would work too. Especially when OOO arc established that Geiz can't win against Zi-O, even his present incarnation, let alone Oma Zi-O.

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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by ViRGE » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:31 am

I really don't know what to make of this episode. In terms of dramatic beats I get where the writers are aiming for, and most of the time they're even hitting those beats. But logically? The plot is a bigger mess than ever.

The problem with time travel is that it's hard, even for good writers. You have to keep the order of events and logical conclusions for them consistent despite things being told out of order, and then you have to communicate it clearly to the audience. Ignoring for the moment the fact that the series is trying really hard to fake us out on Oma Zi-O being Sougo, if Sougo throwing away his belt really did change the future to such a degree that Oma Zi-O vanished, then all the other evil perpetuated by the real demon king should have also vanished. His Dai Mazines, his MOTW that got timejacker-jacked, etc. Instead, what we got is at best logically incoherent. At this point I have no idea why what happened has happened, other than that it needed to.

That said, this episode did deliver on the dramatic elements. As Takenoko has corrected noted, Sougo seems to have grown at least the tiniest speck of a personality between the start of the series and now. Instead of wanting to be the king because he's a goofball, he wants to be king because he wants to be the hero. It's a bit generic by KR standards, but we can work with that. It also means he has a more meaningful stake in the game, and for that matter a better understanding of why Geiz keeps trying to become a murder hobo. Their interaction on these points isn't earned, but it's at least in earnest.

I still feel like the show is floundering a bit. And especially with the recent stretch of episodes with Decade, the show has been leaning heavily on his presence to make up for all the personality and characterization Sougo lacks. Especially as he's being used right new, Decade seems like more of a fan-service crutch.

On a lighter (or perhaps heavier) note, I just noticed that they've given Tsukuyomi her winter outfit. Visually it's not much of a change since she was wearing a rather simple white tunic to begin with, but it's definitely heavier. She has sleeves now and there are clearly more layers. Even then, that fight at the docks looked really cold! :o
resop2 wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:13 pm
Some things that we have learned:

* Geiz's mind changes every other episode.
It really does. And it's not flattering to the character. Done better and this could work - Geiz constantly shifting as he learns new and pertinent information - but instead he seems to waiver back and forth just to keep things interesting?
* Why don't the Timejackers just make Another Zi-O out of Shogo? Or, would that make too much sense?
I have to imagine they're saving that one for a bit later. That's the kind of thing you'd break out for when they do the final form upgrade, for example.
takenoko wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:46 am
Image

Thanks for pointing that out, I totally didn't notice it before.
I noticed that one as well. But my working assumption is that someone in production screwed up. It's a little too subtle for Toei.
takenoko wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:25 pm
OOOKaiser wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:24 am
Is it just me or have they changed writers all of a sudden. Because the past several episodes have particularly been good or maybe the appearance of decade in the show has gotten me so excited that I'm ignoring Zi-O in general.
Indeed???
http://wiki.tvnihon.com/wiki/Kamen_Ride ... Chronology
Well now, this is very interesting. If Shimoyama was working on the movie then I can see why he'd need a break. However if he doesn't show up in the next few episodes- meaning he'll have been gone a whole quarter - I'll have to assume they've sacked him. The show definitely got better around this point. So maybe Toei actually realized that the original batch of episodes wasn't working very well?

Finally, I'm going to miss the Supplementary Project. Even if it felt like the writers were taking pot-shots at the fans from time to time, seeing how the show is made is almost as interesting as the show itself, at times (they didn't even tell the main characters about the movie's big twist?!). So that was a rather neat thing Toei had going on.

Stray Observations
* Whatever you guys did to capture 16.5 turned out really well. It's a lot cleaner than the resolution alone would indicate; the image is sharper overall, and there are no dropped frames that I can see :D
* Dear Toei: please stop with the world-spinning effect. It's a green screen trick done poorly; it looks terrible.
* I don't think we're going to be seeing Zi-O using Ex-Aid Double Action Gamer very often. It looks like they only have the one suit, which poses an obvious problem.

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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by takenoko » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:54 am

You guys bashing Geiz, you take that back! Don't make me threaten you with a loaf of bread!

>I still feel like the show is floundering a bit. And especially with the recent stretch of episodes with Decade, the show has been leaning heavily on his presence to make up for all the personality and characterization Sougo lacks. Especially as he's being used right new, Decade seems like more of a fan-service crutch.

I don't know what this man is talking about, gimme more 2.0 x Decade, this is Kamen Rider 20 after all

>Finally, I'm going to miss the Supplementary Project.

I'm not, good or bad, it probably added another hour of work to my stuff every week lol.

> Whatever you guys did to capture 16.5 turned out really well. It's a lot cleaner than the resolution alone would indicate; the image is sharper overall, and there are no dropped frames that I can see :D

I'm going to take credit for that. The guy who does our raws found some software that can rip streams, so I shelled out the money to buy it. It's definitely better than the pain in the butt method we were using for a while.

>I don't think we're going to be seeing Zi-O using Ex-Aid Double Action Gamer very often. It looks like they only have the one suit, which poses an obvious problem.

What do you mean? Just wear and tear? How do you know they only have the one suit?

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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by HowlingSnail » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:20 pm

Cross wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:35 am
any1 saw that theres shocker's goon(or something else) lurking behind omazi-o chair at the end?
some kinda easter egg??
It's been pointed out many times that Oma Zi-O's helmet very much resembles the Shocker emblem.
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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by ViRGE » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:03 pm

takenoko wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:54 am
>I still feel like the show is floundering a bit. And especially with the recent stretch of episodes with Decade, the show has been leaning heavily on his presence to make up for all the personality and characterization Sougo lacks. Especially as he's being used right new, Decade seems like more of a fan-service crutch.

I don't know what this man is talking about, gimme more 2.0 x Decade, this is Kamen Rider 20 after all
It's definitely been fun seeing this anniversary rider duke it out with the last one. Though I think Decade is getting the better end of the deal; being the actual rider seems to be a lot better than wearing some clunky armor based on that rider.:P

I just wish the new anniversary rider was given a chance to develop a personality first.
>Finally, I'm going to miss the Supplementary Project.

I'm not, good or bad, it probably added another hour of work to my stuff every week lol.
Huh. I never thought about it before. That is a lot of dialog, isn't it? So yeah, I guess that would be a lot of work. In which case, thank you all the more!
> Whatever you guys did to capture 16.5 turned out really well. It's a lot cleaner than the resolution alone would indicate; the image is sharper overall, and there are no dropped frames that I can see :D

I'm going to take credit for that. The guy who does our raws found some software that can rip streams, so I shelled out the money to buy it. It's definitely better than the pain in the butt method we were using for a while.
It worked really well. If you can rip the weekly shows like that as well, you might want to look into it and see how the quality compares to the usual OTA captures.:)
>I don't think we're going to be seeing Zi-O using Ex-Aid Double Action Gamer very often. It looks like they only have the one suit, which poses an obvious problem.

What do you mean? Just wear and tear? How do you know they only have the one suit?
There was a lot of green screening in the shots of the two Zi-Os. So I expect they were filming one in post and editing it in. They probably only have the one chest piece.

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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by takenoko » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:08 pm

We actually used it to capture the Lupat 45 raw, since the audio for our broadcast capture was borked. It was so seamless that I don't think anyone noticed!

>There was a lot of green screening in the shots of the two Zi-Os. So I expect they were filming one in post and editing it in. They probably only have the one chest piece.

Oooh... So that's why they split up. Haha, dumb.

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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by ViRGE » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:32 pm

takenoko wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:08 pm
We actually used it to capture the Lupat 45 raw, since the audio for our broadcast capture was borked. It was so seamless that I don't think anyone noticed!
Ahh. Interesting. So I hadn't seen the front page before I watched 45, but it definitely felt like things were a bit different. In retrospect the lake of the station logo gives it away first, but it was certainly not quite the same.

This is mostly for my own amusement, but I'd love to see the raws for both. That way I could give you a 3rd party perspective on which is better, of course.;)

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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by Aeikozz » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:54 pm

i truly hope they bring back the .5's they were so good.

Episode was great. Really looking forward to seeing how they write themselves out of this loop.
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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by takenoko » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:37 am

ViRGE wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:32 pm
This is mostly for my own amusement, but I'd love to see the raws for both. That way I could give you a 3rd party perspective on which is better, of course.;)
Yeah I still have the work raws:
This is the broadcast cap, with the cms and bad audio sync. For note, first pass of qc usually looks like this and this is what our scripts are usually timed to. Also same with the time stamps for our captions on our wiki.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rhxpymy5eo9fv ... 5.avi?dl=0

This is from the Toei Fanclub stream:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1p8aiebw99bh ... 0.avi?dl=0

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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by ViRGE » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:13 am

takenoko wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:37 am
ViRGE wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:32 pm
This is mostly for my own amusement, but I'd love to see the raws for both. That way I could give you a 3rd party perspective on which is better, of course.;)
Yeah I still have the work raws:
This is the broadcast cap, with the cms and bad audio sync. For note, first pass of qc usually looks like this and this is what our scripts are usually timed to. Also same with the time stamps for our captions on our wiki.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rhxpymy5eo9fv ... 5.avi?dl=0

This is from the Toei Fanclub stream:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1p8aiebw99bh ... 0.avi?dl=0
Thanks Takenoko! But your raws are 720p XviD encodes? Surely that can't be right? Or am I getting my terminology wrong here? (I'm trying to ask about the original captures, rather than any intermediary encodes)

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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by Phoenix512 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:41 am

ViRGE wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:13 am
Thanks Takenoko! But your raws are 720p XviD encodes? Surely that can't be right? Or am I getting my terminology wrong here? (I'm trying to ask about the original captures, rather than any intermediary encodes)
The original captures ranged between 2-3.5 GB so getting those probably won't happen.
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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by Go-On Macaroni » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:55 pm

He wasn't asking if there were gonna be any future 720p encodes, he was asking if he'd be right in assuming the raws used were 720p.
(I'm trying to ask about the original captures, rather than any intermediary encodes)

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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by Phoenix512 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:53 am

Go-On Macaroni wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:55 pm
He wasn't asking if there were gonna be any future 720p encodes, he was asking if he'd be right in assuming the raws used were 720p.
(I'm trying to ask about the original captures, rather than any intermediary encodes)
Captures are in 1080p. It's 720p to make easier to work with and don't need a massive work raw. Also no one was talking about 720p distro encodes.
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Re: KR Zi-O 16 released

Post by Dante ShadowRoadz » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:37 am

Man this quality flip-flop is giving me damned whiplash >_>;

Sougo actually seems to be growing a personality (15 episodes later than he should have) and Geiz is making me question why he's a character in the first place, he's more of a foil for the writers' whims and not much else at this point. Shame that even Decade isn't immune to the budget-snipping and corner-cutting of this series (who though making Wizard Fire Form use water magic was a good idea?) and I get the feeling they're gonna drag him back into the background for awhile cause Toei is Toei. Interesting though that they might break the trend of the last few years of using the movies to introduce the secondary/third Riders, and honestly I'm way more excited to see Woz ham it up as a Rider than anything the actual protagonists are up to.

I don't hate the idea of Zi-O using Mighty Brothers X, but for cripes sake, they need to get some consistency with these power-ups.

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