KR Zero-One 08 released

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Ratings

Poll ended at Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:53 pm

☆☆☆☆☆
19
79%
☆☆☆☆
2
8%
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2
8%
☆☆
1
4%
0
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Total votes: 24

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by ViRGE » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:47 pm

TorchWood wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:52 am
Eight episodes in, and, well, it is just me, or has this series been hitting it out of the ballpark?
It definitely feels like the best start in quite a while. Even Gaim started out kind of slow.

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by resop2 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:23 pm

Giant robots in a Kamen Rider series? Will Yua go rouge and become a monster grower?

I guess that the nurse could not be made into a Mageer since she had not become sentient.

Another good showing for Izu's Tsukkomi powers. She's pretty much being the Anhk and the Philip of the series.

I guess this episode shows that the three principle riders are human.

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by Sentai_ZXR7 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:59 pm

I find no faults in 8 episodes at the moment, I hope Toei has learnt from the mistakes of the past, where so many series had its lows and highs, yet the concept of Robots automation, are a not so distant possibility and the ways how it could be deployed, this is an smart move.
About Ark is too early to formulate some speculations, we will need some time as the show progresses, to know what is all about.

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by Kamen Rider Raven » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:40 am

Kogashi wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:20 am
... *cough* uuh, hey Fuwa *squatting next to the partly exploded 2nd Rider* Fuwa, buddy? ... I really hope it turns out you are either an advanced experimental humagear or brainwashed human to explain why despite being proven wrong several times through the past 8 episodes that you are still certain that humagears are, by nature, weapons meant to kill humans... cause this is getting old. Like, it was old in the previous episode where it was established that the humagears aren't simply going rogue but only go rogue when physically hacked by the terrorists... You listening? *pokes the body* ... well fair you rest that off that was a rough hit you took... damn.
If anything, his ideals have been proven right. Humagears do have the potential to hurt humans, as the last eight episodes have shown. Yes, it was only when hacked but the potential is still there. And then it's revealed that Humagears can attain some degree of sentience? And THEN it's revealed that the main antagonists are Humagears who want to erase humanity. His points are entirely justified right now. Plus he'd been through an insanely traumatic experience as a kid. While I do believe he'll come around somewhat, it'll probably take him a while.

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by Mxylv » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:11 am

Wow, this almost played out like an end-of-arc episode. We had a big reveal or two, a new Rider/form, larger-than-average stakes, a character going near-death and Zero-One using a heck ton of forms. Admittedly part of me hopes it'll take Fuwa a couple of episodes to fully recover, just because that was really a heck of an explosion/finisher to survive (heck, even Kyuuranger had a character unavailable for a number of episodes, so maybe Fuwa taking some time off would be good).

My only real quibble concerns the world's population count: does the fact that the global population matches 2019's mean that Zero-One takes place in an alternate present, or just that the population started falling after a while?
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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by Kamen Rider Raven » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:15 am

Mxylv wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:11 am
Wow, this almost played out like an end-of-arc episode. We had a big reveal or two, a new Rider/form, larger-than-average stakes, a character going near-death and Zero-One using a heck ton of forms. Admittedly part of me hopes it'll take Fuwa a couple of episodes to fully recover, just because that was really a heck of an explosion/finisher to survive (heck, even Kyuuranger had a character unavailable for a number of episodes, so maybe Fuwa taking some time off would be good).

My only real quibble concerns the world's population count: does the fact that the global population matches 2019's mean that Zero-One takes place in an alternate present, or just that the population started falling after a while?
Don't rider series' always take place in the current year unless otherwise noted?

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by Lanay » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:48 pm

Wow, even that wolf AIMS guy can act better than Geiz. This is truly an improvement.

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by envedges » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:30 pm

Is it just me, but I am starting to see a lot of similarities of Horobi and Jin with Adam and Eve from Nier Automata.

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by Kogashi » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:10 pm

Kamen Rider Raven wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:40 am
If anything, his ideals have been proven right.
no, no they really haven't. His ideals are that all humagear, by their nature as humagear, are weapons meant to kill all humans. That just naturally existing will result in them going wild and killing humans as simply how they exist. And then, when it is revealed that the humagears that have been going on rampages after the Daybreak Town incident were hacked by terrorists, he didn't turn his hate towards the terrorists, but pointed to the fact that they are turning humagears evil, as proof that they are naturally evil. That because someone can put in malicious software forcefully into them, that this is just the natural way of the humagears. He completely ignores the multiple examples of humagears, before they are hacked, being types who do their jobs not only because it is their programming, but because they grow a heart, as it were, and learn they like doing their jobs (which is problematic story telling for different reasons but not part of my rant), even when he sees examples like the coach who really wants to get the kids under his charge to win, or the tour guide able to fight against the hacked in programming in order to reveal otherwise hidden footage of the Daybreak Town incident, the thing he claims to care the most about uncovering the truth of.

Does the two here, revealed to be humagears prove that some humagears would turn evil if they gain sentient? With just what information we have right now it's actually a mixed bag. While Horobi is a clear cut 'kill all humans' type from as far as we can tell, signs point to 'yes it can happen naturally', but that doesn't preclude the chances of changes, as we saw with Jin desperate to try and save the voice acting daughter humagear up until Horobi forcefully re-wrote Jin's code, regressing him in a way to his happy to gat someone with his real life gun self away from his panicked 'no but, parents, children, THIS IS WRONG!' freak out of personal growth. Which suggests that even if made to kill all humans, a humagear can learn why doing so is wrong and prevent themselves from being a weapon if not interfered with. the proof that one humagear has, supposedly naturally, turned evil of their own accord, does not confirm Fuwa's stance that all Humagears by their nature are weapons just waiting to kill all humans. If anything that there is only one that naturally went there is a sign more that Horobi is an anomaly storytelling wise.
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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by Kamen Rider Raven » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:17 pm

I always saw his point as "They can easily be hacked to hurt humans". And he's right. Some have resisted somewhat but they are PAINFULLY easy to turn. In his eyes, any Humagear can potentially become a weapon. He experienced it first hand. And now it's revealed that they can potentially think for themselves? I'd say from what he's experienced, his reactions are perfectly reasonable. Though I will say it seems that his stances have softened somewhat. He acknowledges that they CAN do some good in the world, but he still looks at it realistically. It shows that as the series progresses, he has the potential to grow from his initial characterization. Which is more than I can say for some people from previous seasons....

Heck, the fact that we're debating this says something about his character.

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by Catastrophe » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:37 pm

The issue at this point is that he refuses to see them as anything other than potential tools for killing humans on account of experience that first hand. I think that his injury this episode is setting him up to be saved by a Humagear at the hospital and at least have him to open to the possibility that they can be beneficial.

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by Slowking » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:38 pm

Catastrophe wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:37 pm
The issue at this point is that he refuses to see them as anything other than potential tools for killing humans on account of experience that first hand. I think that his injury this episode is setting him up to be saved by a Humagear at the hospital and at least have him to open to the possibility that they can be beneficial.
So we have Aruto who sees them as great entities which needed to support humans, Yua who says they are useful but whatever and Fuwa who says they are 100% dangerous. And to some extent all of their opinions have been justified so far. The reality probably lies somewhere in-between these views.

Also while I believe Fuwa's stance will soften, I also can't really blame him for how he thinks now. He went through a horrifying experience.
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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by Ashki » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:13 pm

If it wasn't for the fact that this is coming from Japan which has a much different view on public bigotry, I'd say the Big Three are not only showing the three outlooks on AI, but also a sort of representation of the three faces of Western cultural crisis. You have Aruto who's like my generation and believes that equality means EVERYONE should be considered equal but cannot convince others that the only way to be truly equal is to stop using segregational labels (in this case, Humagear should be thought of as "he" or "she" and not "it" because they have the classic Sci-Fi potential of becoming just as human as we are), Yua who represents modern cloaked bigotry/racism (i.e. they're not my sex/gender/race and therefore are only equal when they accept they're inferior), and Fuwa takes the SJW extreme of "someone hurt me when I was little and now everyone is evil if they disagree with my views and must be silenced at all cost".

While Fuwa's behaviour is hard to accept when you look at it from the perspective of this being a children's show, it does reflect real life psychology to a great degree (this show seems to be working overtime to pull real-life paralells in just about every aspect). Not only is he someone who gets "triggered" (couldn't help the pun) by opinions that differ from his, but he outright shuts them out and even gets violent towards those who disagree with his "truth". All he knows is Humagear tried to hurt him when he was a child and no amount of proof or logic will ever get through to him until he's willing to admit his view isn't the ONLY correct view and that different people have different experiences and react to situations differently than he does. As it stands now, his mindset is so closed off that the proof shown in the previous episode was immediately blotted out as the flawed claims or deceptions of someone who is obviously blind or crazy and is helping to create victims while he's trying to save them. The fact that Aruto also had a traumatic experience but a Humagear saved his life sets these two characters at an almost irreconcilable impasse unless Fuwa leaves his mental safe zone.

I really love the way they're portraying everyone for this very reason. Some people see Fuwa as shallow, others as flawed, but he's actually an excellent reputation of people you'd easily bump into walking down the street of any modern American city. And that leads me to the theory that the success of Amazons directly inspired Toei to embrace their aging Showa fans by creating a show that appeals to children but has plenty of mature undertones to give us older folk something to think about. Best of all, it brings me back to the old days when shows weren't afraid to show tough topics. Remember when we lost a character in Jetman or GoRanger and parents sat down with their kids and actually DISCUSSED what death was and how the child felt? Zero-One actually has me sit down and THINK after every episode, not just on the show itself, but the ethical dilemmas and social commentary I see woven expertly throughout.

There will come a time when Fuwa will indeed soften up, although I have a feeling he'll go through resentment at his life being saved by the "monster" Humagear. It will likely take him unknowingly falling for a Humagear or seeing a child-shaped Humagear being threatened by MJNet troops to pull a brick from his wall of hatred and shine some light in. THAT is something I can't wait to see, since I really want to see him go through an ethical redemption arc and not just change his opinion suddenly as so many Heisei characters have done. This show has been a solid 11/10 for me so far (the only complaint I have was the first two baddies weren't a spider and bat, but that wouldn't have fit the MotW theme), and I hope the huge success carries over to toy sales so Toei gets a clue and continues this standard of quality for the next 20 years. Maybe we'll even start to see some more mature Super Sentai again...


Incidentally, am I the only one who thought the Angel in White was joking when she told Fuwa he needed his head examined? True, it was interpreted as her showing signs of sentience, but it reminded me of the bedside ill-manner of classic sci-fi doctors, both biological and synthetic. It's sad when an unintentional bit of dialogue is funnier deadpanned than the intentional jokes of a "comedian" main cast member. But then again, Fuwa thinks Aruto is funny, so perhaps he really DOES need his head examined for signs of brain damage. :lol:
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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by takenoko » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:37 am

Slowking wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:38 pm
Also while I believe Fuwa's stance will soften, I also can't really blame him for how he thinks now. He went through a horrifying experience.
Sure, but it seems like putting a gun in the hands of a trauma victim who has an obvious bias makes him the worst kind of cop?

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Re: KR Zero-One 08 released

Post by darkmage02 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:50 am

Kamen Rider Horobi definitely got the threatening debut that he deserves. I especially like the part where he told Fuwa that he didn't care about him, that whatever Fuwa is angry about doesn't matter. It's cold, Terminator-like and goes on to further establish just how menacing Horobi can be. The scores surrounding Horobi is a real treat too.
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