Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by Iaatix » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:48 pm

Because if Mari put on the belt in the first episode and got "Complete" they wouldn't have had a show. The girl can't be the rider, she has to be the needy follower. If Mari could have made it work she would have put it on, marched straight into Smart Brain, beat everyone up and been done with it.

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by m4rc0 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:34 am

Someone wrote it already here. Only Kusaka's procedure was succesful. So Mari and the other kids couldn't use Faiz. If their procedures worked, they wouldn't turn to dust after wearing Kaixa.

The ony belt without a DNA lockout of sorts was Delta, but it had the drawbakc of being addictive. Of course the writers screwed up and Mihara didn't show any signs of that. I mean the other guys were like Gollum thinking the bet as their precious, and Mihara tried his best to get rid of it and only wore it because they had no one else...

And chuld is a vague concept. Takumi could be an orphenoc since he was 2 or since he was 14... The show doesn't give us any info on how old he was when he suffered the accident.

And the show does not state that an Orphenoc's cells or DNA or whatever start to decay immediately after it turns for the first time. It is a progressive process. If it was immediate the Orphenocs wouldn't last weeks... So Takumi could have grown, since his cells replicated faster than the decay, as he was growing.

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by Kogashi » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:58 am

I've gone over my assumption of why the delta belt worked the way it did. My guess was that it fed off of an amplified the wearer's want for power, hence why those who used it simply wanted to be the only ones to use it save for the Lucky Clover member who believed he was already all powerful so why would he get a want for power, or Mihara who simply wanted to survive instead of wanting power, or Takumi when he used it who was so afraid of his own power that nothing would make him want power to begin with... I know other people used the delta belt, those are just the main examples I can think of.
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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by hisakuya » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:38 am

I think Mari can't use the belt because she is special. Remember the pawnshop owner wore the belt and he said it was pleasant wearing the

belt. Kusaka many times said Mari is special and the only one that can save him. Most likely that Mari was supposed has a bigger role to the

series and who knows, she might be the Queen

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by Dengar » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:09 am

I don't get this "DNA lockout" thing. Besides, if there was such a thing, then it should still work for Mari, and then subsequently kill her like it did for all the other things.

I'd say the reason Delta Gear works differently is because it's powered by something other than Orphenoch power. Kaixa and Faiz would give ERROR if that power wasn't present. Or use it all up if only a small amount was present, killing the user. So... Mari is still an oddball.

And I think the only reason the Delta belt worked properly for a few people is because they were people who honestly did not desire power.

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by m4rc0 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:43 am

Faiz's DNA lockout only electrocuted people. And it didn't work unless the persona had orphenoc cells. Keitaro and Mari tried activating Faiz and got electrocuted, instead of trasnforming.

Kaixa worked with anyone, but it killed those that hadn't orphenoc cells.

The old man wore the belt, sure, but he didn't try to activate it. Anyone could wear Kaixa or Faiz, but activating is another question.

The only human that wasn't affected by delta was mihara. They didn't explain why. Probably a plot hole. Mari didn't try to use delta, but she would be able to do so.

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by Dengar » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:16 am

m4rc0 wrote:Faiz's DNA lockout only electrocuted people. And it didn't work unless the persona had orphenoc cells. Keitaro and Mari tried activating Faiz and got electrocuted, instead of trasnforming.
Keitaro, yes, Mari, did happen, but she received the same treatment as the other guys.
m4rc0 wrote:Kaixa worked with anyone, but it killed those that hadn't orphenoc cells.
It didn't work with anyone. Only those guys who got the treatment.
m4rc0 wrote:The only human that wasn't affected by delta was mihara. They didn't explain why. Probably a plot hole. Mari didn't try to use delta, but she would be able to do so.
There were two other people who used the belt onscreen without ill effect. I dunno where you get your info, it's just not true. And it's true that none of those three truly desired power.

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by Gunzy » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:22 am

I don't get why everyone is saying that the Delta belt had human users. Mihara was a student at Ryusei Tutor and he had Orphenoch DNA as the other students there had.
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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by Dengar » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:26 am

While it's true that all of the users had Orphenoch cells, the Delta belt did not drain their power like the Kaixa belt did. It's never explicitly mentioned whether the Delta belt is exclusive to Orphenochs or not, but I don't think it's relevant either way because there were no pure human users.


Either way, it does not remove the plothole of Mari's ERROR.

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by Gunzy » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:33 am

Dengar wrote:While it's true that all of the users had Orphenoch cells, the Delta belt did not drain their power like the Kaixa belt did. It's never explicitly mentioned whether the Delta belt is exclusive to Orphenochs or not, but I don't think it's relevant either way because there were no pure human users.


Either way, it does not remove the plothole of Mari's ERROR.

Well the reason I think it did work for Mari because:
SpoilerShow
Mari was a GURL, but I digress.


Yeah I understand that and it wouldn't make sense for a series of belts made for The Orphenoch King to have one belt that was usuable for a human instead of an Orphenoch.
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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by m4rc0 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:57 pm

I'll explain it again, becaus you don't seem to be understanding. The Ryuseiji were treated. Out of them the only succesful was Sawada, who becamen an Orphenoc. Kusaka was half succesful. The others were failures. Why is that?

Faiz: Kusaka wore it without problem, but Mari was electorcuted, just like Keitaro, who wasn't treated

Kaixa: Kusaka wore it without problem, but every other person that wore it, died. No normla human tried it, but if the failures died, a normal human would die. Maybe it wouldn't work and just kill the normal human.

About Delta: Only Mihara and the girl that tried giving it to Takumi wore it without becoming mad. I don't remeber a third person using it. This regarding the failures, because the orphenocs weren't affected, as seen with Sawada and Kitazaki.

Maybe Mihara and the girl were half succesful, as Kusaka, but it wasn't stated in the show, unlike Kusaka, who had his ability to henshin explained to him by his father.

We haven't seen the guys that became mad with Delta much before they showed up mad, so you can't really say that Delta only makes people who want power mad. I don't know where you get your info, because that is not shown. They could be pacifists driven mad...

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by Dengar » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:13 am

m4rc0 wrote:I'll explain it again, becaus you don't seem to be understanding. The Ryuseiji were treated. Out of them the only succesful was Sawada, who becamen an Orphenoc. Kusaka was half succesful. The others were failures. Why is that?

Faiz: Kusaka wore it without problem, but Mari was electorcuted, just like Keitaro, who wasn't treated

Kaixa: Kusaka wore it without problem, but every other person that wore it, died. No normla human tried it, but if the failures died, a normal human would die. Maybe it wouldn't work and just kill the normal human.

About Delta: Only Mihara and the girl that tried giving it to Takumi wore it without becoming mad. I don't remeber a third person using it. This regarding the failures, because the orphenocs weren't affected, as seen with Sawada and Kitazaki.

Maybe Mihara and the girl were half succesful, as Kusaka, but it wasn't stated in the show, unlike Kusaka, who had his ability to henshin explained to him by his father.

We haven't seen the guys that became mad with Delta much before they showed up mad, so you can't really say that Delta only makes people who want power mad. I don't know where you get your info, because that is not shown. They could be pacifists driven mad...
I base my assumption on the fact that all the Delta users who didn't go mad were all people who didn't really want to use the Delta gear in the first place. Except for Kitazaki who just wanted to play around with it rather than become stronger. (not like he needed to become stronger)

You still don't explain why Mari got ERROR when in fact she should have been successful and then turn to sand like all the other test subjects did. Normal humans would just get ERROR because they're simply incompatible with the gears. Mari is NOT a normal human.

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by KR_FIA » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:01 am

One possible lazy answer to that: Father was biased and made it so that those belts wouldn't accept Mari. That way, she wouldn't die in the battle, turn to dust, or go nuts over them.

Like, she's most probably daddy's favourite being entrusted with Faiz belt and whatnot.



That said, it is me or the whole thing about Mio Mari's resurrection is a bit too... convenient? Here we see grey monsters turning to dust here and there, while they have the technology to revive a normal human?

Mari might have been an orphenoch upon resurrection.

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by m4rc0 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:34 pm

Dengar wrote:You still don't explain why Mari got ERROR when in fact she should have been successful and then turn to sand like all the other test subjects did. Normal humans would just get ERROR because they're simply incompatible with the gears. Mari is NOT a normal human.
And you don't explain where did you get the idea that the belts act differently with "failed" Ryuseiji and humans? The evidence present in the show is that they don't. And why do you think that the belts have the same effects? The evidence present in the show is that they don't.

Faiz: Mari wore and got the same result as Keitaro. No other Ryuseiji wore it.

Kaixa: only Ryuseiji wore it. So we don't know how it behaved with humans.

So, from what the show depicts, it looks like the "backfire" from each belt is different. Both Kaixa and Faiz backfired when activated by humans or failed Ryuseiji.

As for Delta, you are supposing they wanted power befoer wearing the belt. You don't know that, since the guys weren't shown before the Delta arc. And they didn't show any piece of info that could point in that direction. Sure, Mihara didn't want the belt and that might be the reason, but that doesn't say anythin about the other users...

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Re: Kamen Rider 555 Series Discussion (Beware Spoilers inside)

Post by Saejima Kouga » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:46 pm

m4rc0 wrote: Faiz: Mari wore and got the same result as Keitaro. No other Ryuseiji wore it.
Kusaka is Ryuseijuku too.
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