Was he really that likeable?

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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by KamenRiderIon »

Nothing to see here.
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by m4rc0 »

In Tokyo Godfathers they tell the story fo the red an blue oni, but it is a bit different from teh concept present in the link.

The problem with the hero not being in jeopardy is that a hero is only cool if he has to overcome some difficulty. It isn't very heroic beating monsters that are far weaker than the hero. It is like he is a pest terminator and is doing his job. And then he goes back to his petty little life. That is another reason why I don't sympathize with Tendou.

And character development comes along with crisis. But since everything goes well for Tendou he doesn't grow. Oh in the end he accepeted Kagami as a friend... Too little development for 49 episodes, IMO.
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by takenoko »

>The problem with the hero not being in jeopardy is that a hero is only cool if he has to overcome some difficulty.

Well, then he's not a hero. He's like Fonzie and he's just cool because he's in charge. It's like saying a pro isn't fun to watch because he's too good at what he does.

>But since everything goes well for Tendou he doesn't grow.

Not everything went well for Tendou, that's quite the exaggeration
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by m4rc0 »

Hey, even if a pro is good at what she does, she still has though opponents and/or challenges.

And if the pro is too good it can become boring. I mean look at F1 in the Schumacher era. The guy won 7 championships. HIs greatest challenger was himself and/or his car. F1 was pretty boring then. Of course it also had much to do with the cars and stuff but it was boring IMO.

And while it is true that a capable performer is fun to watch, if she doesn't challenge herself to do more, people become bored.

Kenshiro from Hokuto is VERY strong. But his rivals are in his level. Just to mention one example of a very strong lead that has challenges that make him sweat.

I don't like the weak riders, but seeing Tendou saving the day without breaking a sweat almost always was a hindrance to the action in the series. And despite that I still think the action is good because the coreography and SFX are top notch.

I don't know who Fonzie is and I don't think you mentioned the Fonzie I found at google.

But that discussion isn't really about his personality, which seems to be the subject of the thread.

And yes, I exaggerated, not everything goes well, but he almost always came out on top of the situations. And some of the stuff that went badly for him were caused by his ego. So, in the end, he has few opportunities to grow, while many were wasted by the writers.

For instance, they could have made the rivalry between Yaguruma and Tendou last, and make Tendou learn that while he is strong, he can't do everything alone. And many other stuff.

I think i shoukd make it clear that I'm not trying to make anyone hate Tendou or anything, but since this is a thread to discuss the character, I'm just saying what I don't like about him.
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by takenoko »

>I don't know who Fonzie is and I don't think you mentioned the Fonzie I found at google.

http://images.google.com/images?q=fonzi ... =en&tab=wi

Fonzie's the guy that walks into a bar, elbows a broken jukebox and gets it start working. He just oozes charisma and magnetism

>but he almost always came out on top of the situations.

Compared to all the other shows in the toku genre where the protagonists spend most their time losing?

>For instance, they could have made the rivalry between Yaguruma and Tendou last, and make Tendou learn that while he is strong, he can't do everything alone. And many other stuff.

I'm not sure how that conclusion follows from that premise. But the red shoe story was written specifically to show Tendou that he needed Kagami. It's one of the highlights of Kabuto for me
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by Etherealblade »

He was very likable. He didn't lie about who he was. Putting up a facade in order to protect some from the truth is also a classic character thing. His consecutive quotes were interesting. I've also found out that through my experiences of watching many shows that sometimes even if you disliked a character, the writers goal can be met if he was intending for you to place great interest in them.

Fact: This forum post is about our opinions of the said character.

Opinion: I found Tendou to be a bit egotistical, cocky, yet had the strength to back it up. However, My favorite type of hero is one that brims with overwhelming Hot-Blooded Courage and Bravery....but the cool...calculative "Ha! you just fell all up in my trap" kind of characters are cool too. Tendou's edge still made him cool. In my opinion Kamen Rider Kabuto had MANY interesting characters. XD
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by yumenotenshi07 »

takenoko wrote:>The problem with the hero not being in jeopardy is that a hero is only cool if he has to overcome some difficulty.

Well, then he's not a hero. He's like Fonzie and he's just cool because he's in charge. It's like saying a pro isn't fun to watch because he's too good at what he does.
You have no idea how hard I laughed at this.

Tendou had hardships... things went wrong for him. But you know what? If there was someone protecting me from being killed by creepy body-snatching aliens... I would really prefer someone who could beat the crap out of them without difficulty to someone who struggled and potentially failed....

Just my feeling on the matter.

I don't know why people say a hero can't be a hero if they have no difficulties. Beowulf was a hero, and he was like the first godmoder ever. He didn't really have much trouble until he got old and got fried by that dragon.

I really need to stop giving examples from crap people don't care about. I can't help it that old-ass stories have been beat into my head. XD And that I spend my time in class relating everything to toku because I get bored.
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by m4rc0 »

I had found the right Fonzie, then. But I didn't watch the show he is in, so I couldn't know. But hey, I got it now, since you explained.

>Compared to all the other shows in the toku genre where the protagonists spend most their time losing?
I could name a loser rider, but I don't want to talk about other series in a Kabuto thread. But I wasn't discussing the action when I wrote that. I stoped at: "But that discussion isn't really about his personality, which seems to be the subject of the thread."

I meant the everyday situations. My theorie is: to grow you need to face challenges, small or big. Overcome then and bring what you learned to your life.

But Tendou always has everything figured out, so he how can he grow? By watching others? Maybe, but he solves everything.

I just gave an example of a possible conflict. And I had mentioned earlier that Tendou had accepted Kagami by the end, but that is too little for 49 eps. Hibiki learnt more than Tendou, IMO, and he was supposed to be the wise teacher kind of character.

Yume, Beowulf had many difficulties, they just weren't ones he had to deal with his sword. And he wasn't a super hero.

Etherealblade, that isn't a fact. That is a personal opinion, just like mine are. I just find 3 or 4 Kabuto characters interesting.
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by takenoko »

Oh, I didn't know Beowolf died like that. Remember that mythical heroes were the comic book characters back in the day

Didn't Heracles die from drinking poison given to him from some horny centaur's blood?

I don't think Hibiki changed at all. Maybe Tendou didn't change that much either. I don't think all characters need to grow to be interesting. I think most people will argue (correctly) that the main character to grow in Kabuto is Kagami. Tendou was his mentor or whatever
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by m4rc0 »

No questions about that. But that doesn't mean the characters that aren't the "growing ones" can't be troubled or learn a trick or two.

And not growing isn't the reason I don't like Tendou. The reason is in my first post. The discussion just took another route :D

And IF I remember correclty, you are right about Herc.
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by yumenotenshi07 »

I don't know... super hero, epic hero... I'd consider them at least comparable.

Eh. I think Tendou's growth surfaced in different ways. Mostly his difficulty at learning to trust others. Doing everything yourself because you believe you're the only person who can do it properly can be considered a personality fault. Eventually he became more open to getting help from Kagami and others. During the last few episodes, he goes as far to ask for help from Kageyama and Yaguruma, which I'd consider a pretty huge step for him since they never got along.

Yeah, it's not like he changed in huge ways like Kagami did, but there were bits of development here and there.

I would say Tendou had many difficulties, especially early on in life. His parents were killed and mimicked right in front of him, and he took on the responsibility of raising Juka eventually, and then protecting Hiyori. I can't agree that he always had everything figured out, but it makes sense for him to go the extra mile to stay a step ahead.
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by takenoko »

I was thinking about this thread while walking my dog last night

To me, it seems like Tendou's personality, his unrealistic success, and progression of events more or less are a packaged deal. He's arrogant, but that's why it's important that he shows that he has the skills or luck to back it. Arrogant + constant failing = not so good, right?

If we went the other route, he's godmoding but super humble, to me that would be too much like earlier Riders. Except for Takumi, all the other title Riders before Tendou were nice guys, almost to a fault. Nothing wrong with that, I happen to love those kind of characters too, but that's been done. Tendou is kind of unique, because he really does set himself apart from the group of nice guys.

Overall, I'm surprisingly enjoying this thread, and find it stimulating. I remember back when I was subbing Kabuto, I'd haughtily declare that Kabuto detractors were obviously having fun wrong. Nowadays, I take on the paradigm that experience is subjective, and that it's not as big a deal if people experience things differently than myself

That said, I feel like everyone who came into this conversation has overall remained in the same positions as when it started. I mean, it's not like I can take Tendou disliker's brains and put them in my own to see why I liked him. Not to make an excuse for lack of rhetoric or charisma to sway people to my arguments, I just wonder if there are some things that can't be changed through discussion
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by m4rc0 »

I never criticized Tendou's personality, though I mentioned the lack of growth, which isn't why I don't like him.

Sure, his childhood was tough. But I'm talking about the show, and it isn't about his past, but its about his present.

As I wrote before, I have problems with characters that aren't real. If they mad him a strong rider and a capable person, while maintaining it in real levels, I would have liked him.
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by yumenotenshi07 »

That's really weird... I always found Tendou to be a perfectly believable character. But I don't know how to explain my reasons any more than I already have over the course of this thread. XD

I think there are plenty of things that can't be changed by discussion. I think it's more important to be able to safely express your opinions and listen to others without feeling threatened. Obviously there are times when you try to sway someone one direction or another, but in many cases I don't think that has to be a goal. Maybe when you're trying to get someone to change their mind about a particular issue, but when it comes down to likes and dislikes, I don't see much of a point. It's like trying to force someone to eat a food they don't like... they're just going to get mad if you don't respect their feelings. XD

So yeah. I never really entered into this with the intention to make people like Tendou. My only desire is to present my own viewpoint. If someone else thinks it's good and agrees with me, or if it changes someone's mind, cool. If not, that's fine too. I just like seeing why everyone thinks the way they do, and offer whatever thoughts I have. :)
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Re: Was he really that likeable?

Post by m4rc0 »

Here in my country we have a say that goes like this: personal taste is like pancreas, every person has her own. Of course the part of the body in he say is not the pancreas, but I censored it.

An example of why I think Tendou is unreal: the guy joins a secret organization and somehow is recognized as a superior human being and is given command of many that have been in the organization longer.

The guy excels in everything he tries to do, being even better than professionals.

Daisuke challenges him to a casanova duel, and all the girls leave Daisuke for him.

Stuff like that.
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