He speaks ENGLISH?!

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He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by hunter-urufu » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:14 am

One of my friends, who is also a big fan of Kabuto had told me, and I suppose the info is freely floating out there on the internet, but was any one else a little...weirded out by Hiro Mizushima's speaking English?

It's not that odd for someone to speak another language, and it honestly almost makes sense that it'd be something that Souji would be able to do too (I can easily see him saying to himself, "I'm bored. Already cooked dinner for Juka-chan, Took care of the Worm of the Day, Solved the problem of the week...I know! I'll teach myself English!") But it's still a little odd to have someone who you are familiar with as speaking one langauge, suddenly start speaking in another.

For the record, I'm only up to episode 25, and the only time I've noticed it was in the segment at the end, talking about Stronger, and I'm assuming those segements are non-canon, so I don't know if Souji CAN speak english.

And when I saw weirded out, I more mean out of surprise more than anything. Like I said, it's not that odd that someone would be able to speak English (though the fact that it SOUNDS like they dubbed someone else saying "Stronger" doesn't help much.) Just surprising in context.

-Edit: Another thought occurs to me, and maybe someone with a better knowledge of Japanese, either the language or culture could explain this to me, but why does he still use the extra phonemes that come with conversion of a word that would not otherwise be in Japanese into Japanese syllables (As in the u sound when Shotaro says Phillip's name), IE, why does he still say Masqurade-o rather than simply saying Masquerade, Listo instead of list?
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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by Xander Blaze » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:01 am

Yes, Hiro Muzashima is fluent in English. I'm surprise how psyched you are knowing that. He used to live in Switzerland for 6 years which make him bilingual. It's not a big deal really, in my country, most people can speak at least 2 different language (minus old folks and stupid guys who can't learn very well).
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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by takenoko » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:42 am

>Edit: Another thought occurs to me, and maybe someone with a better knowledge of Japanese, either the language or culture could explain this to me, but why does he still use the extra phonemes that come with conversion of a word that would not otherwise be in Japanese into Japanese syllables (As in the u sound when Shotaro says Phillip's name), IE, why does he still say Masqurade-o rather than simply saying Masquerade, Listo instead of list?[/quote]

Well, you're a guy who knows the word phonemes, so you should know that those are the basic sound blocks that form what they can and can't say and hear and understand. It's how the word is pronounced in Japanese and how most Japanese would best understand it

Think about it this way. Just assume that the English is a borrow word and not the actual original English word. Borrow words undergo a transformation and really are a part of the new language. "Office lady" uses English words, but it's not a phrase that means anything in English, it's really more closer to a Japanese word in that sense. At least, that's how I think about it

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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by That Guy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:08 am

Take, that last bit was pure gibberish.

Anyway, the reason he pronounced it with the Japanese phenomes is because, while technically incorrect from an English standpoint, the character of Tendou may not be able to speak English, or he's simply pronouncing it the typical Japanese way when he's speaking Japanese. As Take attempted to explain above, when a loanword is adopted into another language, its meaning and pronunciation may get warped from that of the original language, such that if you use the original meaning and pronunciation, people may not understand what you're trying to say. So he's pronouncing it the way that viewers will understand it.

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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by takenoko » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:56 am

Well, if you want me to clarify it or something that's fine, but it's not really my problem if you can't understand it. I mean, you really are kind of a douche for just repeating what I said and then calling it gibberish

Me: Well, you're a guy who knows the word phonemes, so you should know that those are the basic sound blocks that form what they can and can't say and hear and understand. It's how the word is pronounced in Japanese and how most Japanese would best understand it

You: Anyway, the reason he pronounced it with the Japanese phenomes is because, while technically incorrect from an English standpoint, the character of Tendou may not be able to speak English, or he's simply pronouncing it the typical Japanese way when he's speaking Japanese.

Me: Just assume that the English is a borrow word and not the actual original English word. Borrow words undergo a transformation and really are a part of the new language

You: when a loanword is adopted into another language, its meaning and pronunciation may get warped from that of the original language, such that if you use the original meaning and pronunciation

>As Take attempted to explain above

Well, you make it sound like I failed to explain myself, which makes no sense since you basically just copied what I said. I'm not even sure why you chimed in except to sound like an asshat toward me

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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by That Guy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:00 am

No, I am not going to turn this into an argument. I was just trying to help answer the guy's question and I perceived that your answer was hard to understand so I clarified. If that's being a douche, sue me.

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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by hunter-urufu » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:24 pm

takenoko wrote: Well, you're a guy who knows the word phonemes, so you should know that those are the basic sound blocks that form what they can and can't say and hear and understand. It's how the word is pronounced in Japanese and how most Japanese would best understand it

Think about it this way. Just assume that the English is a borrow word and not the actual original English word. Borrow words undergo a transformation and really are a part of the new language. "Office lady" uses English words, but it's not a phrase that means anything in English, it's really more closer to a Japanese word in that sense. At least, that's how I think about it
That's sort of what I figured. Do you think we'll see less of that, as in people using their language's phrasing of a given borrow word, especially English ones, as time moves forward?
Last edited by hunter-urufu on Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by hunter-urufu » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:28 pm

Xander Blaze wrote:Yes, Hiro Muzashima is fluent in English. I'm surprise how psyched you are knowing that. He used to live in Switzerland for 6 years which make him bilingual. It's not a big deal really, in my country, most people can speak at least 2 different language (minus old folks and stupid guys who can't learn very well).
You misunderstood the point of my post. I knew ahead of time that he could speak English, and of course it's not a big deal. It was just...ugh...it's hard to describe. And honestly, in MOST 'advanced' nations, most people are at least bilingual if not more, Probably because many of the 'advanced' nations are in places bordered by OTHER 'advanced' nations that don't speak the same language, so it makes sense. Just like a lot of countries, Japan included, include English in their school system, because its sort of become the national trade language.
...Gotta stop wandering with words like that.
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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by That Guy » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:26 pm

hunter-urufu wrote:That's sort of what I figured. Do you think we'll see less of that, as in people using their language's phrasing of a given borrow word, especially English ones, as time moves forward?
Here's my two cents: if the Japanese start learning to pronounce English in English phenomes instead of Japanese phenomes, then maybe. But from what I understand, the emphasis on English in Japanese education is more reading and writing than speaking, which is why you still hear all this "Engrish" in anime and tokusatsu and whatnot. If Japan's education structure changes, then sure, it's possible. I think it'd be great. But as long as people only learn to pronounce English using Japanese phenomes, it's not likely.

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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by Catastrophe » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:31 pm

Still, they force it down pretty hard there. I remember when I went for a school trip once, I had been learning Japanese for the same amount of time my homestay had been learning English, and he was so much better at English than I was with Japanese.

I suppose when you are talking about bilingual, its almost essential to speak English (I say almost, because it changes between being the 2nd and 3rd most spoken language), although its quite widespread throughout the world, especially in some big countries, so people needing to deal with things for business usually find it as a common ground. I've been to conferences in Europe where Italian and French people discuss topics in English, as it is the common ground between them.

I only know some Japanese because my research lab has collaborations with labs in Japan. Most people that speak English generally don't bother learning a lick of a second language unless it is a necessitation.

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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by takenoko » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:45 pm

Catastrophe wrote:I only know some Japanese because my research lab has collaborations with labs in Japan. Most people that speak English generally don't bother learning a lick of a second language unless it is a necessitation.
Just out of curiosity, are you an American?

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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by Catastrophe » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:25 pm

Nah, New Zealander.

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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by takenoko » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:54 pm

Ah okay. I just asked because it seems like it's mostly Americans who don't bother to learn a language beyond English. Other countries seem a lot more progressive with the learning of multiple languages. But maybe that's just a biased perception on my part

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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by Catastrophe » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:58 pm

Well that is what I thought as well, but I didn't want to make an American sterotype, but from people I've talked to from America, that has been what they have said, in that if they don't need to speak it, why bother learning it?

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Re: He speaks ENGLISH?!

Post by Lunagel » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:32 pm

Honestly I blame the fact that the country's so damn big that since the entire country speaks English as a major language, there's no need to learn another language unless you plan on living outside the U.S., which most people don't. Now Europe and Asia, on the other hand, don't have an overarching "major" language (though English has become the default language of business since we Americans have said language barrier), and so almost are forced to learn several languages, especially in smaller countries that border many other countries.

If I may steal a quote from Bill Cosby:

"The reason why [Europeans] can speak several different languages mostly is because sometimes it's only a half hour drive or a two hour drive between one language and the other. Now when you get to the United States, you can drive for eight days and not run into another language!"

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