Garo Series Comparison

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Garo Series Comparison

Post by Dragonfan » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:37 pm

Phoenix512 wrote:It seems like to me that this show is what you guys wanted after Yami. You complain about the Horrors being the same so you got more unique Horrors. You complain about the Makai Knights being all CG so you got the partial return of the suits. You complain that it wasn't like the original two seasons so it returned to that format and being more related to the original characters. Now to say you guys aren't completely wrong that it could have been a lot better but admit that it was more what you wanted from Garo than Yami was.

Maybe it's time for Garo to take a break and reevaluate itself for a year before coming back again. Also some of you need to stop comparing the new guys to the old ones. You got the old ones so high that the new ones don't have a chance to surpass them ever.
That's a kind of comment that I see a lot, but I don't think that is totally accurate. I mean, most of the people I know who didn't like Yami (me included) don't dislike it because is different, we dislike it because we find it BAD.

I am totally opened for new things, I enjoyed Soukoku no maryuu a lot and I am eager to watch the anime. Heck, I actually enjoyed some of YWTM episodes, they had awesome moments and the script sometimes wasn't all that bad.

So the people can like or dislike Makai no hana for many reasons, but they don't necessarily have to be related with comparison with the previous seasons, and the same happens with YWTM:

On the other hand, YWTM was the only season in which Amemiya didn't work, so I don't think that they did Makai no hana to please the fans who disliked YWTM. They did it like this because this is the way Amemiya sees and conceives Garo universei, and he probably would have done the same without YWTM existing previously.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by OOOKaiser » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:22 pm

Phoenix512 wrote:It seems like to me that this show is what you guys wanted after Yami. You complain about the Horrors being the same so you got more unique Horrors. You complain about the Makai Knights being all CG so you got the partial return of the suits. You complain that it wasn't like the original two seasons so it returned to that format and being more related to the original characters. Now to say you guys aren't completely wrong that it could have been a lot better but admit that it was more what you wanted from Garo than Yami was.

Maybe it's time for Garo to take a break and reevaluate itself for a year before coming back again. Also some of you need to stop comparing the new guys to the old ones. You got the old ones so high that the new ones don't have a chance to surpass them ever.
I agree. People wanted to believe that Makai no Hana could do better than yami wo terasu mono but then they get disappointed by how bland it was.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by takenoko » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:30 pm

I just ignore the stuff Phoenix says. It's always unnecessarily presumptuous and accusatory.

Makai no Hana definitely has a lot of issues, but overall I really enjoyed the series. For me, the flaws don't take away from the good points in the series. And I do think it succeeds in surpassing Yami, since the problems Hana are less egregious to me than in Yami. But at the end of the day, I'd like to see more stories from the Makai no Hana crew, while I have no interest in following up on Ryuuga's guys.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by Lunagel » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:45 pm

I'm all aboard the YwTM hating boat because while I don't think sequels need to be exactly like their predecessors, that series completely threw away the atmosphere and most of the mythos that the first two Garo series had. It felt like a different world with different rules, and while I guess some people enjoyed that, it was too disjointed and sometimes downright irritating for me. Although the scene with Garo taking a sword TO THE FACE was probably the most metal and awesome thing I've seen, the resulting crappy makeup blindness scars and BULLSHIT mother crying to take away his blindness ruined it.

Makai no Hana certainly has its share of problems, and I'll be the first to whinge that Mayuri is underused and kidnapped far too often, at least it brought back what I enjoyed about the first Garo. There were interesting Horrors, great ambiance, and a sense of the structure about how the world worked. Sure, it didn't always work, but at least they tried.

And I'm going to complain about it one more time, the camera work in YwTM was some of the most ridiculous, pretentious crap I've ever seen. It felt like someone who was in their first year of film school was in charge. Plus THE GODDAMN SOUND EFFECT MAN made me want to shoot him with his unnecessary added effects that were the audio equivalent of having your fingernails pulled out. Yes, I'm still complaining about this shit but the production was so cut rate at some points.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by Victormaru » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:29 am

KR_FIA wrote:As much as people hating YwTM, I enjoyed it more than MnH since it actually had a coherent plot going on compared to this series. I really wanted to like this series, but it just failed to deliver. Take out all the nudity, and it can easily pass as a Sunday morning show.
This. I feel like you could just watch the first episode of MAKAI NO HANA and then the last four episodes (where Eiji comes in) and that would be all you need to understand the entire series 'cause the rest of the episodes were just pointless. Even the ones where they actually obtain an Eiris Seed, it was still sort of a filler episode anyway. At least with the Yami series, the episodes continued all the way through and it made you want to find out what happens next. Whereas with the HANA series it's like, "Oh my God, when are they gonna get back to the main story already?!"
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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by Dragonfan » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:57 am

Victormaru wrote:
KR_FIA wrote:As much as people hating YwTM, I enjoyed it more than MnH since it actually had a coherent plot going on compared to this series. I really wanted to like this series, but it just failed to deliver. Take out all the nudity, and it can easily pass as a Sunday morning show.
This. I feel like you could just watch the first episode of MAKAI NO HANA and then the last four episodes (where Eiji comes in) and that would be all you need to understand the entire series 'cause the rest of the episodes were just pointless. Even the ones where they actually obtain an Eiris Seed, it was still sort of a filler episode anyway. At least with the Yami series, the episodes continued all the way through and it made you want to find out what happens next. Whereas with the HANA series it's like, "Oh my God, when are they gonna get back to the main story already?!"
But that, and I think I said this before in this forum, is not a problem, is a narrative option. I mean, a show with a continuous plot is not better than a show with standalone episodes automatically, they're just different takes on narrative. So I don't think is fair to judge badly a standalone episodes show because it doesn't have a continuous plot. It's like saying that a Jackie Chan movie is bad because it doesn't have good drama, or saying the comedy show Community is not good because they don't have a mistery to solve.

So MNH should be judged for what it is, a show with mostly selfcontained episodes, and YWTM for being a show with a continuous plot. And there is where I found that MNH is a success in what it does, meanwhile YWTM is a failure developing the plot it has.

If you prefer series with continuous plots that's fine, I personally like both, but saying that something is bad because most of the episodes are selfcontained is saying that the vast majority of American TV Shows and practically the whole noir genre is bad.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by Zaruba » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:22 pm

Phoenix512 wrote:It seems like to me that this show is what you guys wanted after Yami. You complain about the Horrors being the same so you got more unique Horrors. You complain about the Makai Knights being all CG so you got the partial return of the suits. You complain that it wasn't like the original two seasons so it returned to that format and being more related to the original characters. Now to say you guys aren't completely wrong that it could have been a lot better but admit that it was more what you wanted from Garo than Yami was.

Maybe it's time for Garo to take a break and reevaluate itself for a year before coming back again. Also some of you need to stop comparing the new guys to the old ones. You got the old ones so high that the new ones don't have a chance to surpass them ever.
I agree with you it did feel a little more like the first 2 seasons and for that I will always like it better than Yami. For me it was more about the characters and their develepmont and involvement in the series. Mayuri and Crow were two of the most bland characters/actors we've seen in the whole series. Raiga was good because he actually had a personality but I still prefer the badass no nonsense Kouga. Other than than it was just how slow it took to get to the main plot and when it did it was over quickly.

I totally appreciated the creepy episodes and the stand alone episodes that were brought back. I also loved the suits and horrors made for just one episode. That was awesome, but I think for a show to be really intriguing for me it has to have deep character development and interesting drama within those characters for me. I have to feel like I know them and root for them.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by Revorse » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:04 pm

Lunagel wrote:I'm all aboard the YwTM hating boat because while I don't think sequels need to be exactly like their predecessors, that series completely threw away the atmosphere and most of the mythos that the first two Garo series had. It felt like a different world with different rules, and while I guess some people enjoyed that, it was too disjointed and sometimes downright irritating for me. Although the scene with Garo taking a sword TO THE FACE was probably the most metal and awesome thing I've seen, the resulting crappy makeup blindness scars and BULLSHIT mother crying to take away his blindness ruined it.

Makai no Hana certainly has its share of problems, and I'll be the first to whinge that Mayuri is underused and kidnapped far too often, at least it brought back what I enjoyed about the first Garo. There were interesting Horrors, great ambiance, and a sense of the structure about how the world worked. Sure, it didn't always work, but at least they tried.

And I'm going to complain about it one more time, the camera work in YwTM was some of the most ridiculous, pretentious crap I've ever seen. It felt like someone who was in their first year of film school was in charge. Plus THE GODDAMN SOUND EFFECT MAN made me want to shoot him with his unnecessary added effects that were the audio equivalent of having your fingernails pulled out. Yes, I'm still complaining about this shit but the production was so cut rate at some points.
I'm gonna have to watch Yami a second time. I really don't remember it being as bad as the general consensus of the fandom does.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by Lunagel » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:46 pm

If it weren't a Garo sequel, I'd probably be more okay with it (retarded camerawork and sound effects aside), but it completely tosses aside most of the things I loved about the Garo series like the suited fights (all CGI and fairly short), the different Horror costumes (just one design and sometimes it was just stuntmen in black suits), the setting that felt like it could be in the real world (let's go to this future(?) city!), and the final boss being a naked chick (bespectacled old guy, thankfully clothed).

I really think YwTM was set to be a different series altogether before they decided to shove it in the Garo franchise. Or maybe I'm wrong and it really was Amemiya's influence that helped pull the Garo series together. Regardless, you can't deny that the third series is radically different from the other ones, and if that's your cup of tea, more power to you, but personally I still wish they hadn't made it.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by Revorse » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:17 pm

Lunagel wrote:but personally I still wish they hadn't made it.
Damn! That's deep. But I can understand those reasons.
Did they ever say if it was a sequel or just an alternate universe. To be honest I don't remember.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by takenoko » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:27 pm

I'll put my thoughts on Yami in spoiler tags since it's starting to get off topic:
SpoilerShow
I was pumped for Yami when it first started. They really should have replaced Garo with a different Makai Knight, but whatever. I was going to give it a fair shakes at being its own thing. And gradually that good will was eroded away with it's bad story and poor use of characters. The only two characters that I truly liked in the show were Rivera for being an awesome villain and post-story arc Takeru (minus the bad acting spasms he has). Everyone else was just so dislikable or bland that I couldn't get into them.

I know people say the same thing about Makai no Hana, but that's the difference. I like Raiga, Mayuri, Crow, Bikuu, and Eiris. Maybe even Eiji a bit? It's just the story doesn't fully expand on their potential. But the important thing is, I wasn't left disgusted with them the way I was when Yami's story was done.

If we're going to be honest, I could nitpick all the stories in Garo. There's something really flawed about all of them except for the real short ones like Beast of the White Night and Tougen and Soukoku. But most of them are tolerable except for Yami and Zero. Maybe it's the lack of Amemiya filling their souls with rich world-building nectar or maybe it's the shortcoming of the director (Kaneda Ryuu http://wiki.tvnihon.com/wiki/Kaneda_Ryuu but there's something about these two series that especially suck compared to the rest.

That said, it really bugs me when I see people try to connect Yami with the rest of the Garo continuity. So far, there's been zero connections, and I hope it stays that way.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by Lunagel » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:56 pm

KR_FIA wrote:
Lunagel wrote:naked chick as last boss
I won't call Ganon naked. Neither is Judam.
Series, not movies.

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Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by KR_FIA » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:05 pm

Lunagel wrote:Series, not movies.
Yet Ganon is last boss in MS, unless you count Sigma.

Also, as much as YwTM strays away from the core series, at least it differentiates between madou horror and normal horror.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by Lunagel » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:52 pm

Wasn't there some kind of giant naked chick at the end of Makai Senki who they had to defeat? It's been a while since I've seen it but I swear there was.

I dunno, I thought Madou Horrors were just a cheap way of saying "hey this person is a Horror already so we don't need a costume, they can just wear black clothing!" And that fucking tri-mouth got on my nerves after the 4th time. They might differentiate between the two, but that didn't make the effects any less cheap and unoriginal.

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Re: Garo Makai no Hana 25 released

Post by KR_FIA » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:28 am

The end battle in MS looks like something straight from a Dynasty Warrior game with all those nameless Makai Knight running around a thingmajiga. The only risque thing happened is Sigma getting out from Ganon's skirt.

I think you mistook Karma for the end boss for MS.

Budget reason aside, at least their origin or trait is much different than the usual horror (Able to tear out own flesh as weapon? Now that's what I call a killing machine). What does the slab horror have to offer? Only a little stronger if it is hosting Eiris. You would expect being a horror sealed along with a bigshot would be more formidable.

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