Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post Reply
User avatar
TorchWood
Hyakkiyakou wo Buttagiru
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:26 pm
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Location: Lincoln, CA

Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by TorchWood » Mon May 29, 2017 5:12 pm

From Business Insider:

Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II
Japan is in the midst of a fertility crisis, and it's 65 years in the making.

Saddled with long work hours and rising expenses, young Japanese couples are opting not to have kids. Even if they have the energy to start a family, many simply don't have the time.

As a result, spending shrinks on the small scale and the Japanese economy contracts on the large scale. Japan has seen trillions in lost GDP over the past years, in combination with a population decline of 1 million people. Harvard sociologist Mary Brinton puts it bluntly: "This is death to the family," she tells Business Insider.
FULL ARTICLE HERE
Gashatto! Let's Game! Meccha Game! Muccha Game! What's Your Name? I'm A Comment Writer!

User avatar
takenoko
Team Baron
Team Baron
Posts: 26401
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:33 pm
Male: Yes
Favorite series: All of them
Alignment: Neutral
My boom: stick
Quote: "Are you the new monarch, or are you just a pawn of fate?" - Emerald Herald
Type: ISFJ Protector
Location: Yami ni umare, yami ni kisu
Contact:

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by takenoko » Mon May 29, 2017 6:56 pm

Was post world war 2 a positive era for Japan? Dealing with American rule, a defeat in a war, rebuilding, not to mention clean up after having two nukes dropped on them, it seems like they wouldn't have experienced the same economic boom that America did in the 50s.

And can you really blame work for the lack of kids? In a modern society where there's widely available porn, distractions like the Internet and video games, and a good understanding of contraception, maybe it's the natural state of modern society to produce less kids as it goes.

Here's a quote that I heard the other day:

“A civilization without pain and suffering seems to be the ideal of the human race. However, I wonder if people might end up with losing sight of joy, and forgetting the meaning of life, in a society pervaded by pain reduction mechanisms and filled with pleasure.” -Masahiro Morioka
http://www.lifestudies.org/painless01.html

Basically, the guy thinks that we're removing all conflict in modern life and he thinks that's a bad thing. Kids take resources like time and money. Statistically, people who have kids are slightly more unhappy than people that don't. And aren't a lot of people in Japan nowaday NEETS? If you can survive on a part-time job, then why not? Older people are holding down on permanent positions longer, so there's more competition and it's not as easy to obtain them. It's no wonder people would opt to wait till they're in a more stable financial situation or not have kids at all.

Edit: I just realize I fired at the hip and didn't even read the original article. My apologies if I hit anything that was addressed in it.

Catastrophe
ZECT
ZECT
Posts: 3650
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:47 pm
Male: Yes
Favorite series: Kyoryuger
2ndFavoriteSeries: W
Quote: "When I first started, I knew everything about nothing and have progressed in the subsequent two decades, realising that now I know practically nothing about everything"

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by Catastrophe » Mon May 29, 2017 7:13 pm

This has been a known thing for a while though, correct? Like I feel like I've been reading Japan's birthrate has been in decline for at least 10 years or so.

User avatar
TBustah!
Mega
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:14 pm
Male: Yes
Favorite series: Zyu to Kaku
2ndFavoriteSeries: Bouken to Kaizoku
Favorite Actor?: Toku? Hiroki Suzuki
Alignment: Neutral Good
My boom: Slot cars
Quote: "The future.... is in the past! Onwards, Aoshima!"
Type: ISFP Composer
Location: Yuma, AZ

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by TBustah! » Mon May 29, 2017 10:00 pm

This problem really isn't even exclusive to Japan, it's just more pronounced with them because they're an island nation with strict immigration policies.

User avatar
Lunagel
Bottle Shaker
Posts: 7052
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:09 am
omg are u a girl?: Yes
Favorite series: Magiranger
2ndFavoriteSeries: Gekiranger
Location: Japan

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by Lunagel » Mon May 29, 2017 10:40 pm

I feel like it might be a good thing? I mean, yeah, you got an elderly heavy population right now, but they're also the ones with all the wealth and land and stuff. If the population goes down then there will be a chance for the younger generation to get some of that. There are too many people in Tokyo anyway.

User avatar
Dengar
Wanted Pirate
Wanted Pirate
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:18 am
Male: Yes
Favorite series: Gaim
2ndFavoriteSeries: Agito
Alignment: Lawful Good
Location: Unknown
Contact:

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by Dengar » Mon May 29, 2017 10:53 pm

I... don't think that's how economy works.

Also the idea that long-ass work hours have nothing to do with a declining birthrate sounds a bit silly to me. Of course it has something to do with it.

I also think treating porn as a cause rather than a symptom feels a bit weird.


Also, what study proves that families with kids are less happy than those who aren't? I've heard people say quite the opposite, so I'm quite interested in the source.


I'm also mildly disappointed that the article simply glosses over the problem that will be caused by replacing your work force with robots.

User avatar
Des_Shinta
http://www.kingdomofloathing.com
http://www.kingdomofloathing.com
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:37 pm
Male: Yes
Favorite series: OOO
2ndFavoriteSeries: Kuuga
Dreamy: Ayumi Kinoshita
Favorite Actor?: Steve Blum
Favorite Band: JAM Project
Alignment: Neutral
Contact:

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by Des_Shinta » Tue May 30, 2017 5:13 pm

Housing costs skyrocketing due to Real estate Speculators in the 80's and then the economic crisis that resulted from that in the 90's and early 2000's I would think as a more recent factor in causing this situation, as not enough money to move out and live independently? Less likely to meet people or want to get into a relationship, especially with an entire generation having grown up under the mindset to be more frugal and minimalist.
I've seen the videos of people living in closets the size of a coffin as they can't afford anything else due to how expensive homes and apartments Still are due to shortages. There's no way you're going to raise a family like that.

But it's not like Business insider would see this and compare it to more recent times with the long-standing slander of millennial living post-economic recession, right?

A larger graph does kind of show the population decline they're citing, but There are a ton of other factors they're not taking into account; 1950-55 was the post-WW2 population boom which then settled down to previously-normal levels from the 1960's through the 1980's.
What started as a healthy 2.75 children per woman in the 1950s fell to 2.08 by 1960.
yeah, that was the beginning and end of the population boom. other countries saw a similar surge during that period. Baby boomers, anyone?
So this article is already contradicting their purported cause and effect behind their entire thesis, as something else was responsible for a massive growth rate that then went back down to normal. Their correlation of PM Yoshida's Economic policies to this thus doesn't add up.

I would figure bigger factors (on top of Japan's Lost Decade) would be stuff like women not being welcomed back or able to keep their job after getting pregnant due to the societal expectation of them then becoming full-time moms, or the stigma against Public displays of affection or signs of a relationship, popular media of the culture rarely having people hook up, the pressure to study in the years where teens would date to learn how to interact like that properly, the factors of depression and suicide culling the populace, or those insane hours being necessary to be able to support ones-self now which makes it so a single-income family can't support themselves all bigger influences.
Though having just come off a full 4-day weekend of having pulled double-shifts because of memorial day, that last one isn't exactly limited to Japan.

It's likely all of these and others compounding one-another into an ongoing mess, but I feel it's just...downright foolish to all pin it on just this one thing like this article is phrasing it as.

User avatar
takenoko
Team Baron
Team Baron
Posts: 26401
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:33 pm
Male: Yes
Favorite series: All of them
Alignment: Neutral
My boom: stick
Quote: "Are you the new monarch, or are you just a pawn of fate?" - Emerald Herald
Type: ISFJ Protector
Location: Yami ni umare, yami ni kisu
Contact:

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by takenoko » Tue May 30, 2017 5:15 pm

Thanks Des, that was a really thoughtful post.

ViRGE
Save the life
Posts: 1252
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:35 pm

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by ViRGE » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:58 am

I'm not so sure this is unique to Japan, as much as them being ahead of the curve. There are definitely cultural reasons they're first, but everyone else is going the same direction.

The two-income household being a requirement to raise a family combined with the spiraling cost of kids has made them a massive economic burden. And while there are reasons to have kids besides economics, it's become an increasingly strong disincentive.

(At some point here, a lawmaker is going to seriously suggest outlawing birth control. That will be an interesting day)

User avatar
Dengar
Wanted Pirate
Wanted Pirate
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:18 am
Male: Yes
Favorite series: Gaim
2ndFavoriteSeries: Agito
Alignment: Lawful Good
Location: Unknown
Contact:

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by Dengar » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:38 am

I also think it is foolish to just dismiss this issue as any contributing factor whatsoever.

User avatar
takenoko
Team Baron
Team Baron
Posts: 26401
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:33 pm
Male: Yes
Favorite series: All of them
Alignment: Neutral
My boom: stick
Quote: "Are you the new monarch, or are you just a pawn of fate?" - Emerald Herald
Type: ISFJ Protector
Location: Yami ni umare, yami ni kisu
Contact:

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by takenoko » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:44 am

Is someone completely dismissing it? I think most people here are just saying that the author placed too much emphasis on that as a factor. Just seems like you're splitting hairs.

User avatar
TorchWood
Hyakkiyakou wo Buttagiru
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:26 pm
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Location: Lincoln, CA

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by TorchWood » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:38 pm

According to Business Insider, in 2016, the fifth most expensive city in the world to live in is.... Tokyo, Japan. (For comparison, New York City is number 11). I think the limited land mass plays a factor in this. How many Japanese shows have portrayed life as follows:

* Visiting a apartment verses a small home
* On top of a roof.... or, in a school situation, the field IS on the roof of the school
* On a transit system (psssttt.... Ressha Sentai ToQger)
Gashatto! Let's Game! Meccha Game! Muccha Game! What's Your Name? I'm A Comment Writer!

User avatar
Lunagel
Bottle Shaker
Posts: 7052
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:09 am
omg are u a girl?: Yes
Favorite series: Magiranger
2ndFavoriteSeries: Gekiranger
Location: Japan

Re: Japanese family life is falling apart — and the reasons why go back to World War II

Post by Lunagel » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:31 pm

I don't think it's really so bad to be in a small apartment as opposed to a small home. Even the smallest apartments in Tokyo are at least 15 SQ meters, which is larger than some college dorms, and some Paris apartments are only 6.

Also, most of the time they shoot stuff on roofs cause they're cheap and easy to film XD most people aren't allowed on the roof of any high building

Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic”