Japanese honorifics (san, chan, kun, etc...)

[ShadowX7]

I like having honorifics in subs/translations that I watch/read

Mostly it's because it seems weird and awkward to translate "-san" as mister, "-Ojiisan" as Old man etc.

It also helps to establish the relationship between characters, whether they're only someone they just met or their best friend

[garfield15]

Considering licensed anime DVD's have the honorifics in them at this point (FUNimation has been doing that since Dragon Ball Z so I'm used to it), I've never had a problem with it. For me, it just sounds kind of awkward without them. Like they are saying something but you're not seeing it translated.

Well, except for -tachi. Maybe.

[Barim]

personally like the honorifics because it gives the show more authantisity(sp). I watched Howl's Moving Castle and while watching it they replaced Onee-san with the person's name. It didn't have the same impact in the dialog.

I couldn't agree more. The subs I have of the recent Giant Robo animé changed everything to first names. Which is a bit absurd when the audio says aniki, especially if the character's first name hasn't even been given yet.

[Korcas]

Honorifics I can live with but... jesus drop the tachi.

Tachi is a horrible word, even in Japanese already and I CRINGE everytime I hear it used, even in Japan. Seeing it typed out in subtitles makes it even worse. And it's not even one of those words that "loses the meaning it conveys when you translate it", it's simply something that marks a group as a group.

I'm fine with the rest, but IMO -tachi really needs to go.

personally like the honorifics because it gives the show more authantisity(sp). I watched Howl's Moving Castle and while watching it they replaced Onee-san with the person's name. It didn't have the same impact in the dialog.

I couldn't agree more. The subs I have of the recent Giant Robo animé changed everything to first names. Which is a bit absurd when the audio says aniki, especially if the character's first name hasn't even been given yet.

Even then, leaving aniki as aniki would be retarded. Changing it to "bro" would be apropriate. I don't know what happened, but back in the 80s, professional subs substituted "onee-san" or "onee-chan" with fitting endearment terms for western culture, i.e. Sis and big sister and stuff like that, which was absolutely fine.

[Guardian07]

It's only fine to a degree, though, because Japanese honorifics are much more specific and have variety of meanings, not mentioning the Japanese are sarcastic and pun-happy people. For example, 'ni-san', 'oni-sama', 'aniki' all mean big brother but they can also contain other meanings not conveyable in English because it's too general.

Of course, I'll agree that whatever that can be translated properly like in Phoenix's example should be translated but frankly, those are not as widespread as the ones that cannot be translated properly.

[Korcas]

For example, 'ni-san', 'oni-sama', 'aniki' all mean big brother but they can also contain other meanings not conveyable in English because it's too general.

They really don't. They all mean brother, nii-san means brother, oni-sama would mean big brother, and aniki is a slang-like bro.
Those meanings are easily conveyable with English, especially in visual media.

But again, I can let that one slide, that's somewhat okay.

[tennomichi]

For example, 'ni-san', 'oni-sama', 'aniki' all mean big brother but they can also contain other meanings not conveyable in English because it's too general.

They really don't. They all mean brother, nii-san means brother, oni-sama would mean big brother, and aniki is a slang-like bro.
Those meanings are easily conveyable with English, especially in visual media.

But again, I can let that one slide, that's somewhat okay.

no no not really. the -sama shows high respect where as brother is not really suitable and aniki isn't a slang-like bro it is the oldest brother and you respect them so it doesn't really translate well. sure they all mean the same thing but in their language it is different

[DrinkItDown]

Even before I started studying Japanese, I would say that shows with subtitles that left the honorifics in taught me the complexities of relationships in Japan. I think its integral to leave them in, as to fully understand a situation, you need them.

[Guardian07]

They really don't. They all mean brother, nii-san means brother, oni-sama would mean big brother, and aniki is a slang-like bro.
Those meanings are easily conveyable with English, especially in visual media.

But again, I can let that one slide, that's somewhat okay.

They all mean elder brother, but the differences provide insight to their relationship and also to the speaker's personality and manners. 'nii-san' is formal, 'onii-sama' shows great respect with the 'o-' and '-sama'.

Aniki, on the other hand, could mean a guy the speaker looks up to and not older brother, like with Yaguruma and Kageyama in Kabuto. Lower ranking member of the Yakuzas uses 'aniki' to refer to a higher ranking member they highly respect.

[archer9234]

I think people hate them, when it causes a reading break. Like when you have to do a large explanation note. It gets the watcher frustrated, to pause and look on top (plus, they go away so fast you can't read them). Which gets them mad, and you get "translate everything, dammit!". Or a total newbie to Japanese culture. They get lost in translation.

[DrakosAmatras]

I think T-N subs convey the context behind the honorifics - which are very rich in context by their nature - very neatly, so there's nothing much to elaborate on that part. What I'm interested in is the word "tachi".

In my mother tongue (Burmese) - which has a near identical grammatical structure to Japanese - there's a single-syllable word that functions the exact same way as "tachi"; for example, add it to the word "I" (in both Burmese and Japanese), it becomes "We" (also in both languages). It's a really vague word to define in English; what it does, and the only thing it does, is serving as an indicator for plural/collective. Another thing is that the word is universally usable by anyone (still in both languages), regardless of personalities or relationships. I don't know by which chain of thought "tachi" became classified as an honorific, but speaking from my experience, it's not; it's just a suffix at most.

But hey, do what you want. You guys have been spending big chunks of your time to give us translations for free, and I'm already grateful for that. A relatively untranslated word isn't really an issue; like the honorifics, it's fine if you know the context and can understand/translate it in your head.

P.S:

Spoiler

If anyone's interested, that word I mentioned is pronounced very, very closely to どっ or ドッ in Japanese. (It's impossible to write correctly in English, and I don't suppose any of you can read Burmese.)

[El Huesudo II]

I rather not have them around.

I know that they're crucial for context when referring to someone, but that kind of context can be conveyed (or at least "faked") using the language creatively. Not to mention most of the context behind honorifics is redundantly conveyed by the tone of the speaker most of the time, and just because we, the watchers, are gonna concentrate a bit more in the subtitles, doesn't mean we aren't paying attention to the audio.

I tend to watch tokusatsu and Japanese animation with people that don't know (or don't know enough) Japanese, therefore can't get most of the jokes and wordplay left untranslated, and are very, very annoyed at honorifics. It's especially jarring when the setting of the work is nowhere near Japan or in a fictional world where you'd think they don't speak Japanese.

[neomonpkmn02]

Like some of the guys above said, the honorifics are fine or better yet it IS needed... It's just -tachi thing... For me it's okay if you put it after a name like Tsukasa-tachi but with another honorific like Tsukasa-san-tachi get's it......bleh...sorry.

[Archon Divinus]

I generally feel that translations should translate as much as possible (I hate seeing a perfectly translatable word left in Japanese for no particular reason), but I make an exception for honorifics (although I have to agree that I don't like seeing tachi. That could be translated without really losing any meaning). Mr. and Mrs. and etc. lose some of the meaning of Japanese honorifics. Similarly, I'm okay with seeing nisama/neesama/variations thereof left untranslated because seeing people address siblings as brother/sister is clumsy. We simply don't talk that way in English. You don't lose any meaning, it just never parses well. The problem with leaving them untranslated is that then you have to leave things like dousama untranslated for the sake of consistency, but dousama translates into father without problem.

Related question: I know that the Japanese word for playing card is trump, which is an English loan word, but do you really have to leave it as trump when translating? Trump in English doesn't refer to cards in general, or as a whole, but usually to specific card in certain card games, and seeing playing cards called trumps in the translation is always a little jarring.

[Lunagel]

Related question: I know that the Japanese word for playing card is trump, which is an English loan word, but do you really have to leave it as trump when translating? Trump in English doesn't refer to cards in general, or as a whole, but usually to specific card in certain card games, and seeing playing cards called trumps in the translation is always a little jarring.

I don't remember many instances of hearing "trump" in toku, except in Magiranger once. I don't think we've done it recently, but yeah, I can see where you might have a "WTF" moment