Why keeping the Japanese bits matter

[G3-X]

Personally, I don't mind a couple of untranslated words that would be awkward in English (The medals, Henshin, that kind of stuff) but at the same time a good deal of untranslated stuff sounds even more awkward (Honorifics, -tachi, brother, sister and the likes), there's no excuse to leave those untranslated, I think there's always a way to translate those without losing the context, at least in my humble opinion (And I'm saying this out of personal experience, I've lent some friends a couple of DVD with your fansubs and they ALWAYS ask me what's "tachi")

Again, don't take this as a personal attack, this is just the opinion of someone who's been following your fansubs for quite a bit (since Faiz and PGSM)

Keeping in mind that everyone on 4chan has the same childish mindset.

Generalizations are, with all due respect, stupid. I won't deny that there's a big amount of people who are immature and childish, but at the same time there's a couple of individuals (Myself included) who try to contribute to the community (I've been scanlating for quite a bit and my teams got assembled in that board)

[Kamen Rider Raven]

To be honest, I'm surprised that this is an issue. Maybe because I've been watching Tv-N subs since 2004 and I'm just used to it, but I don't have any problem with Japanese bits. Sometimes a literal translation just doesn't sound right. For instance, in the HK sub of Tekkaman Blade (HK, I know, but work with me here), the phrase "Takaya-nisan" was constantly translated as "Brother Takaya". Granted it was a literal translation, but it just seemed out of place.

And don't get me started on henshin phrases. It is my opinion that they be left alone. It just seems wrong when someone translates "henshin". Same thing with medal names. Rider belts are usually in english, but OOOs' is the first one in a while that stays in japanese. The effect is kind of lost when the medal names are translated. Especially since the belt sings out combos, which are some variation of the three medals. If you translate the medals then wouldn't you have to translate the combo as well? So SaGoZou would end up being....I dunno....RhiGoPhant or something.

[Lyra]

I love the way TN subs their shows!!. I've been watching anime for 2 years now but it wasn't till I began downloading Kamen Rider from TN a year ago that I learned some Japanese
All thanks to Kamen Rider and TvNihon! keep up the good work!

[AkuTenshiiZero]

It's funny that we're bringig up rampant Americanization on a primarily tokusatsu-related forum. Aren't we forgetting one of the biggest Japanese-to-American overhauls of the 90s?

Let me just ask one simple thing: How many people here loved MMPR as a child? And how many people here got into toku thanks to that series? I've never seen Zyuranger, and frankly I 'm not interested, because I love MMPR and I'd rather not spoil it by watching the source material. Yes, that's right, from what little bit of Zyuranger I've seen I am of the opinion that it is inferior to MMPR.

But I digress. There is a certain degree of Japanese culture and language that has seeped into many of us through the years of fandom. Things like honorifics and names of things only found in Japan such as the aforementioned kotatsu or various foods. I mean, would it be okay for someone in Japan to say "baked flatbread with sauce and cheese" instead of "pizza"? Hell no! Call things what they are. Even the Japanese do it! Last I checked, there is nothing even remotely like a cheetah in asia, so obviously they have no word for it. So the OOO medal is just called "cheetah".

And since this has come up a bazillion times, I think "Henshin" should stay as is due to it's significance to the Kamen Rider mythology. It's an iconic word that has been a part of the series from the very beginning. And while the OOO medals tend to be confusing the first time, you get used to it. And on top of that, image association is the best way to learn a language. So when I see the medal icon of a tiger and hear "taka", it becomes easier to think "That's a taka" instead of "That's a tiger, and taka means tiger".

So yeah...That was a bit of a ramble and I lost my place in it. If I had a point, it's somewhere in that mess. Find it yourself

[GraveZero]

o.o I'm assuming Taka was meant to be Tora in the above post.

See, I think leaving simple words in Japanese probably makes sense. Because anyone arguing "I only want to watch the shows I don't want to learn anything about JAPAN or JAPANESE things" from it is essentially the same as going to a chinese restaurant and demanding burgers and fries. They can probably do it, but what is the gently caressing point? The people are Japanese, speaking Japanese, the subtitles are there so people who don't understand it can follow. And even then, you don't need to know what each Medal is if your that determined to ignore the Japanese aspect, it's pretty obvious from the handy picture that accompanies each medal (not to mention Raion, Cheetah, Condor and Gorilla are all in Engrish)

Personally, I like learning some new words. I try to pick things up even when they're subtitled like Yuruse, I assume is forgive me in an informal way. I agree entirely it should have been translated, most definitely, but knowing that "Yurushitekurei" (lord hope I spelt that right) is a polite way to ask forgiveness informs it and means I may have learnt something useful.

Hopefully, the situation won't arise where I need to beg forgiveness but still, point stands o.o. It's not like they translated the english words they threw into W, if Japan doesn't see a need to patronise their kids I think we can deal with a few words untranslated. >_> this is assuming message boards weren't flooded with abuse about not wanting to learn English words.

[AkuTenshiiZero]

o.o I'm assuming Taka was meant to be Tora in the above post.

Obviously the lesson has not been hammered into my skull enough yet

[TerminusEst13]

Because anyone arguing "I only want to watch the shows I don't want to learn anything about JAPAN or JAPANESE things" from it is essentially the same as going to a chinese restaurant and demanding burgers and fries. They can probably do it, but what is the gently caressing point?

There is...quite a difference between ordering specific oriental food and watching a TV show.

[evzero]

My problem with things like this is that a lot of people act like there's this thin line between cultural authenticity and Americanization.

The real question to ask yourselves is "Does translating this remove cultural importance?" Sushi is raw fish. Samurai are warriors bound by a warrior code to a lord. I even agreed with some of the terms in Shinkenger being kept, like kuroko. Terms that are in Japanese, but have a clear and distinct meaning in another language are fine.

However, things that have a clear equivalent in English and no cultural importance need to be translated. Hawk Medal. Tiger Medal. Grasshopper Medal. You don't need to leave Taka Tora Batta in, because it's not vital to anything to leave those in Japanese. If someone were to use those words in a sentence, you wouldn't put "Ankh lost the Taka Medal again", because it makes little sense to the viewer. It's not coherent. "Ankh lost the Hawk Medal again" is clearly understandable. Hell, some of the medal names are already in English, so you already have a precedent for it!

The belt chant and form name TaToBa are fine as is, because it's a name. The difference here should be fairly clear.

Leaving random strands of Japanese words in isn't necessarily preserving a product's cultural identity. You're just making the subtitles less coherent and understandable, which goes firmly against the reason shows are translated in the first place. Not to mention very awkward.

My 0.02

[SwordHero1]

Keeping in mind that everyone on 4chan has the same childish mindset.

Generalizations are, with all due respect, stupid. I won't deny that there's a big amount of people who are immature and childish, but at the same time there's a couple of individuals (Myself included) who try to contribute to the community (I've been scanlating for quite a bit and my teams got assembled in that board)

Looking at what they're saying about TV-N discussing this particular topic, yea I can see your points. But enough about 4chan.

My point was TV-N's subs aren't bad. They just could be better.

[Joe_Mello]

this is a sort of censorship of the original culture.

If you honestly believe this, then I think you've lost the plot.

I agree about Sorcerer's vs Philosopher's, but only that one thing. The British HP has a lot of other culturalisms in it that would likely just get in the way of your average 10-year-old trying to enjoy a story of adventure and magic.

[GraveZero]

Because anyone arguing "I only want to watch the shows I don't want to learn anything about JAPAN or JAPANESE things" from it is essentially the same as going to a chinese restaurant and demanding burgers and fries. They can probably do it, but what is the gently caressing point?

There is...quite a difference between ordering specific oriental food and watching a TV show.

I meant burgers and fries to be distinctly UN-oriental O.o. My point was watching a Japanese show and complaining it's Japanese is a silly thing to complain about.

Also, as a British man, I can say Harry Potter isn't a great mirror of our culture. Though I haven't read the american book, so I dunno how much gets changed o.o.

[DekaPrime]

Thank you for not only missing the point of my original post entirely but also missing it publicly.

I didn't just get pissed in the Gokai 2 thread for no reason. I told you quite specifically that you had placed in an attack name but had been so lazy as to not eve include a TL note with the translation. You resonded with quite frankly the biggest load of crap I've herd on this board. That's what this boils down to. TVN is at it's very core quite lazy. I do not watch shows like this so that I can go look up crap after words. The "you should just look it up" answer is bull crap.
Sure you may think tossing in Japanese words is cool and it may inform, but frankly you just come off as a japanophile.
Thankfully TVN no longer holds a monopoly on subbing. There a several other well done, faster, and more coherent subs out there.
So you guys enjoy your little weeaboo BS, your "Ore Sanjou by bike" and "Kisama-san-tatchi" and I'm gonna go watch some folks that actually do what they say and translate stuff.

[GraveZero]

O.o some of the guys in this thread agree with you, dude.
Personally, I like the Japanese stuff and said so, gave my opinion.
If you don't like that some things aren't translated then saying so is equally right.

Considering this all grew out of one easily translatable attack seems kinda ridiculous. And as I said, complaining people are 'Japanophiles' or 'Weeaboos' for a subbing group called TV-Nihon is a little... ineffective. Better question may be if you don't like Japan why would you be watching programs which are intrinsically Japanese? Why not watch the Power Rangers version?

Not an attack in any way, btw, just a question. On at least some level you have to appreciate that translating certain things would lessen the impact (like Henshin to change body)

[Go-On Macaroni]

another case, is the subbing that is quite often found on Youtube, of Abaranger, that I dont remember where it was done, but for some Bizarre reason, they decided that "Bakuryu Sentai Abaranger" should be Subbed as Abarenger Abarenjia

If that's the subs I'm thinking of; they're bootlegs, don't worry about them.

[DekaPrime]

short answer is I watch to be entertained. Understanding whats going on helps with said entertainment. Seeing the lazy translating practices of this group ( why would you put in "Kaa-san. . . .TL Note Kaa-San= Mom" when you could just Fing put in "Mom") does not help in my enjoyment of the show. If the sub is culturally significant then you can translate it as best as possible and then add a note at the end. Like the guys over at Timeless did for Mei-Chan and the like. When it's compounded over the fact that it's every episode full of lazy translation then it just boils over when it's stuff that maybe shouldn't be translated. Some things I'll agree with you on.

Mantan Gun:
Part of the joke is the repetition of sound. The important part of the word is "Gun" says what it is right there on the tin. So not translating this is fine.
Ah Mou:
"Ah crap", "Ah darn" "dang it" the list goes on. This has never been given a TL Note in any TVN show that I've watched and frankly is not a phrase that makes any more sense in japanese then in english. Translate it.
"Ore Sanjou"
First of all simply using the Japanese phrase because it sounds cool in the end makes you look like and idiot, or weeaboo or however you want to call it. If you want to use it as a catch phrase that is still about stupid but could be understood.
"Ore Sanjou by bike" and "No Sanjou"
That is just lazy.
"-san -tatchi etc."
There is no need for this "Futo-kun" to "Mr. Futo" again how lazy can you be not to do this.

In the end I don't think it's a problem with " a little japanese" in the show it's that quite a few of the TL Notes are for crap that really should just be translated. Even when you have stuff that makes sense untranslated you have so much other junk japanese in the show people have a hard time over looking the little stuff that might make the show better if left undone. That on top of the "well you should jsut look it up" attitude is one of the reasons TVN get's as much flack as it does.