What is going on with Toei lately?

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What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby takenoko » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:29 pm

Is Toei in a state of decline? It seems like the last few years has seen a mass exodus of their main staff talent and they've been supplementing their work force with less seasoned staff. And it kind of shows, since the last few Rider and Sentai shows have been mediocre at best when they're not just being straight up terrible. What's going on?

Are they just spreading themselves too thin? They've been hitting hard lately with a bunch of Youtube content as well as direct to DVD stuff. And while a couple years ago, I thought it was great, since that stuff was good. Now, I really hate it, because all that stuff is bad. The Ghost HBV, the Jyuohger Blu-ray episodes, the Ghost episodes, the second Drive Saga spinoff, all the Ex-Aid stuff. The Kyuu Henshin stuff is alright at least. But now we've got mediocre TV series, the movies tend never to be good, and now the direct to video stuff is bad as well. Why?

Was there a shake up? It seems like all the writers and directors are new. Like who's Sugihara Teruaki, the director for the two most recent KyuuRanger episodes? He seems new. Mouri Nobuhiro (Kyuu writer), Komura Junko (Jyu writer), Shimoyama Kento (Ninnin writer),Takahashi Yuya (ex-aid writer), and Fukuda Takurou (ghost writer) were all making their main writer debut in their respective series. And man does it show. Maybe Toei is just a bad place to work?

Aside from Amazons, not much good stuff is coming out of Toei lately. I'm more interested in Amemiya's stuff with Garo lately. I mean, sometimes Garo can be bad too, but they've been pretty strong the last few years in my opinion.
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby Catastrophe » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:44 pm

So my personal opinion is that the show quality has taken a dive in the last few years mostly due the excessive amount of toys they have to push in the first quarter at detriment to the plot, in combination with shit writing.

Urobuchi, in my opinion did a very good job with Gaim for example, with multiple riders and lots of forms making the show enjoyable and the toys a success. Ex-Aid to me is just like someone said to do the grim plot with lots of riders and forms, but didn't put any effort into crafting it to make it enjoyable.

I feel like they've become complacent? Post Decade was good because they kind stopped using guys like Inoue for writers and bought in fresher faced guys like Sanjo. They really just need to think outside the box again rather than playing it safe and trying to rehash stuff that worked before without getting what made it so good.

As for Sentai, I don't really know. To be perfectly honest, I just kind of watch it because its there. Kyouryuger was probably the only one since Shinkenger that I've really enjoyed, and at this stage it feels like Kyuranger is to Kyouryuger as Ex-Aid is to Gaim. That is, lots of little power up things you put in the changer to make sounds and a shit tonne of Rangers, but its not working as well as it did.

At the end of the day, as long as this shit sells toys, nobody in charge will care. Maybe its a sign of getting older as well and we recognise all this dumb shit?
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby takenoko » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:08 pm

I wonder if it's a post Decade/Gokaiger thing as well. It seems like they shoe horn a way to make everything an anniversary or an attempt to revive old franchises. Are there really that many people asking for more Gavan? Well, too bad. If you like DekaRanger, you're going to need to take Gavan too.

I don't think it's an age thing. I feel like if that were the case, I'd probably have gotten out of toku 2-3 years in. I used to feel like Riders couldn't really do any wrong. Even if the series wasn't going to be a favorite, at least it was competently made and at least passably entertaining. Nowadays, I'm either not being entertained or the writing is too dumb to be acceptably competent (at least to me).
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby Lunagel » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:19 pm

I guess lots of little cheap toys sell more than a few large toys? I mean, the business model makes sense, but when it's in-show it's just exhausting. There are a couple Ex-Aid forms we've only seen like once or twice because of that.

And honestly I don't think it's going down too well with the kids either. With the younger ones like ages 3-5 okay maybe but the older ones recognize the writing is crappy and are more likely to just change the channel.

It really might be a good idea for them to take a break for a couple years, regroup, reorganize and figure out what exactly they want to do with tokusatsu so we can get back to some interesting and quality programming.
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby fourteenwings » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:00 pm

It's really not viable for them to just drop their whole business plan to regroup. I mean, if there was a genuine attempt to change they can just start now for next years stuff.

I know I'm not the best choice for judge of what's going on here; I've kind of been away from the toku thing for the past couple of years; having been a huge Sentai fan for most of my life I was distracted by other interests (anime, almost entirely). First it was missing all of Gokaiger, then getting distracted in the middle of Kyouryuuger (I do plan to get back to that) and then just not watching NinNinger and failing at watching Jyuohger.

But I did really like Go-Busters (though nobody else did) and even though ToQger had like, zero actual merits, I really loved watching it. The structure and the simplicity of the plot made it an insanely relaxing watch during a difficult period for me.

On the Rider front, I've only completed Fourze and I was excited for Wizard but that was very hit-and-miss. I'm only really back to toku though because I started watching Ex-Aid on a whim and really enjoyed it. It might not be the best, but it's tightly written. There's a lot of care put into it, and it's definitely not amateurish.

I can see how that can't compare to a big name writer like Urobuchi, but it would be a huge mistake to try and get somebody like Urobuchi for Rider or Sentai every year. He's amazing, I know, and they could do a lot with it, but one of the major reasons I do watch toku and come back to it is that it's kid's programming and I enjoy those type of show. The writing doesn't need to be near great all the time, and Ex-Aid is managing an engaging plot with a lot of great characters (Aside from Emu himself, at least for me).

The whole toy market has moved towards the "Few big items, lots of small ticket items" trend, so we really can't blame them. The pilot for this sort of stuff, I think, was PreCure, which had done it quite a lot before Sentai and Rider picked it up. Personally, I look forward to whatever they're going to be collecting probably because of how I was conditioned with PreCure.

I do think that right now they're in overdrive with Ex-Aid, with literally every episode pushing the costuming and VFX departments to do more. Story-wise/in-universe, they've definitely made it work, but I worry for the actual budget and like... the mental health of the people who are having to pull something new out every week. Another thing is that Ex-Aid is very... loud? It definitely takes some getting used to. Announcer is also kind of obnoxious sounding, but after a few episodes of Digimon Universe I'm just glad we didn't get whoever is doing that.

I haven't watched any Kyuuranger yet, but Ex-Aid did get me interested in trying to get back into Sentai so I'll try it out. Even what I managed to watch of Jyuohger was pretty fun (and that ED was adorable).
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby Crimzonite » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:51 pm

takenoko wrote:Are they just spreading themselves too thin? They've been hitting hard lately with a bunch of Youtube content as well as direct to DVD stuff



Let's not forget all the movies and specials they've been churning out lately. In the past it was mainly the Kamen Rider/Sentai summer movie and the Sentai Versus film almost every year. Now there's all that plus the Kamen Rider Taisen movies, the Rider/Sentai crossovers, and the Sentai post-series "Returns" and "10 Years After" movies. There's always the danger of burn out behind the scenes, among the fans, or both.

I'll admit I'm going a bit off topic here, but this thread reminds me ... what happened to Toei's "Super Hero Year" project? The only media it seemed to produce is the Kamen Rider Ichi Gou movie and Kamen Rider Amazons. I expected more than that. Like something related to Goranger.
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby Lunagel » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:14 am

http://www.superhero-year.com/

The odd thing is that they don't even mention those two projects on the site. All they've got listed is the standard movies/shows/live shows. I guess they forgot they were doing this?

I mean, I kinda feel that since Amazons was created for Amazon they had some oversight forcing it to be good so I don't think it even really counts.
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby TorchWood » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:52 am

What have been the average television ratings in terms of number of viewers over the past few years? Why won't I be surprised if I see a decline?
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby nanamarfo » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:19 am

I don't see it as a bad thing(This is coming from a person that finds it hard to hate anything), TOEI is trying to expand o different mediums and it's worked so far in my honest opinion(I still need to watch the Alan drama and Ghost HBV).

Ghost sucked because thing were either rushed or unexplained and while this coming from a guy who has pretty much grown out of SS(I can't get into KyuRanger) I don't mind the new KR stuff that has come out post- Decade they have all been good(Not Ghost).

The writing has been fine from my standpoint.

NGL, Garo is hard for me to get into. Not my kinda of thing.
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby takenoko » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:37 am

You're missing out, because Zero has been getting almost solid 5's on all it's releases lately. Sure, it has a smaller voter base than Rider or Sentai, but it's not like either of them were getting anywhere close to such consistently high numbers either.

I don't know what the ratings are lately, but I can show you what the fans of this forums think. (Not Zero, Ex-Aid, and Kyuu are all recent additions, so they're numbers are likely to change a lot.)

Gold Storm Shou (TV Series) 3.72 (February 17, 2016)
Makai Retsuden 4.52 (29 votes, Sept. 17, 2016}
Zero -Dragon Blood- 5 (1 vote,3/22/17}

Gaim 4.60 (80 votes as of June 11, 2015)
Drive 3.58 (76 votes as of February 17, 2016)
Ghost 2.76 (99 votes as of 3/12/2017) (3.95 37 votes as of Aug 7, 2016)
Ex-Aid 3.80 (41 votes as of 3/12/2017)

Kyouryuuger 4.02 (48 votes August 18, 2015)
Toqger 3.59 (58 votes August 18, 2015)
Ninninger 2.82 (68 votes as of February 17, 2016)->2.50 (121 votes August 7, 2016)
Jyuohger 3.55 (53 votes as of 3/12/17)
KyuuRanger 3.69 (13 votes as of 3/12/17)

It looks like I'm not the only one who has felt a dip lately.
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby starofjustice » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:58 am

I don't mind the "lots of little power trinkets" approach, or that things have gotten more "toyetic" since about Decade. That they're aiming at a younger overall audience than ever. If anything, though, how well-implemented the whole power trinkets thing is has been slipping in my view.

I mean, in Gaim we had the thing with the Lockseeds and collecting and lots of Riders wanting to get into the competition early in the show, but it was all paced out just right and I never felt there was an explosion of new power-ups. In OOO you had the medals that empowered him, and which also empowered the bad guys. It was a little confusing trying to keep up with who was supposed to have what, but all that back-and-forth because everybody wanted to collect them at least made them seem really important.

In Ghost they started out okay with making the Eyecons seem important, but it never really felt like it went anywhere when his ultimate power-up came from something else. In Ex-Aid it seems like they're just whipping new games out of their asses every couple episode with no real rhyme or reason or doing much of anything to make them seem powerful or important. And In Kyuuranger, well...every time they've been talking about how their thingies react to a passionate and good soul, I've just been thinking of the scene where that dragon guy has a coffee can full of them and just dumps them out on the table and says "here guys, take a few." As I remember from Ninninger before I dropped it, even there they had to find and earn all their little toys.

I can't really comment on the talent behind the cameras. Overall I do feel like the writing quality has significantly dropped from around 2010 or so, but I'm unsure how much of it is all the veterans leaving the field and how much of it might be trying to just reach a younger audience than they were trying for before that.
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby TBustah! » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:59 am

I just thought I was getting older or bored with the genre (which is why I haven't been around much the last couple years)... do you really think the quality is slipping? Kyoryuger was meh all around, I liked the style of ToQger if not always the substance, Ninninger was okay (I didn't even find Takaharu that annoying like most folks did), I liked Jyuohger a lot more than I thought I would (just wrapped it and its predecessor up, marathoning them on the PS3), and Kyuuranger has been alright so far. With the possible exception of Jyuohger, I definitely haven't been enjoying sentai as much as the period between Bouken to Gokai or the 80s and 90s stuff I've seen so far, but again, I just chalked it up to either my own changing tastes or boredom.
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby Greenstalker » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:16 am

Well my two cents I enjoyed most of the later shows there were ofcourse some that irritated me or plain out started as bad but somehow manage to finish decent and a couple of them that started good but ended with horrible aftertaste and if someone asked me i would say Shinkengers were the epitome of super sentai for me closely followed by gokaigers and geki rangers than as third place there would be kyoryurangers ofcourse this is as someone who started super sentai with gekirangers i watched dekarangers, magirangers, boukengers later and although they were good i wouldn't put them high on the list.
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby Gallus Faberge » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:08 am

Well....
Toei tends to suck on a lot of things, this decade, and the last.
From my experience with other franchises, they tend to focus on making a buck then quality.

Now, rider shows have gotten a lot more story crammed into them since... let's see, Gaim, yes.

They went back to the old formula in Drive, with less story, and it was so and so.

But the toy number keeps increasing every year. (Gawd i really hope they stop with all the "old rider henshin thingy" for every rider. I'm surprised they even sell.)

Now Ghost had more story, but it spread out important plot points over movies and special episodes, instead of keeping them in the show. Like Saionji's fate was revealed in the Hyper Battle Video, like... whut?

In Ex-Aid they have increased the story, even to the special Genm episodes. Personally i like the Ex-Aid story and i don't see much wrong with it. I haven't followed the threads here about it, so i don't know what wrongs in the writing you others mean. Though the show is very gimmicky with all the toys, but i'm very certain that kids 3-12 love it.

So in conclusion: Toei always prioritize money before quality, like in the case of Jyuohger. But they have also begun to expand into the internet with youtube and such, trying new things to get a understanding of modern viewership. I don't know, maybe seasoned writers don't want jobs where the story is split between mediums?
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Re: What is going on with Toei lately?

Postby nanamarfo » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:39 am

Went into Bikku, watched 20 minutes and saw things.... I am just not into goth honestly.
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