All Riders Versus All Rangers

It's more than just Kamen Rider and Sentai

Riders Versus Rangers

Rangers Win
25
17%
Riders Win
77
52%
Tie
20
14%
Both Sides Are Mutually Destroyed
26
18%
 
Total votes: 148
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Aeikozz »

Kudos to whoever mentioned Phillip going into the Library and just looking up Sentai's Weaknesses.
That's even more owning.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Gunzy »

markverendia wrote:
Whats wrong with his idea??

besides they already got that started with "Mugen" vs game...

just in case you dont know what Mugen is GOOGLE IT

mugen is basically whatever you want vs whatever you want in classic marvel vs capcom engine...
Yeah I know...all of that...but if you're going to make a game like that, prepare for balance issues out the ass. The only good MUGEN games are the ones that have a better engine than the default one that is given.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by D-boy »

D-boy wrote:Without bring all the off screen hibiki riders (which i don't think should count anyway, but that's just me) into this, the general counts so far have it at a rough 2-1 ratio for sentai and riders.
mrangel wrote:Well, I don't really think they should count either; I was just being silly including them. So lets settle on all the riders who are named "Kamen Rider ?????" (ignoring other rider-like heroes); and rangers who transform or have a (team)-(colour) designation. That gives the rangers closer to a 3-2 advantage in numbers
Well, with the count, I'm willing to count G3/4 and the RioTroopers (well, up to 6 as appropriate from in season of faiz... the movie ones are too numerous and fielding them would just take away the point of this geekery), however I don't think the Zect Troopers count as they are really nothing more then a glorified swat team with fancier armor.

So, only if they are A)obviously a form of rider, even if lacking the name (so, if you want we can count Tackle no matter what camp of thought decides to weight in on that point) and B) have screen time (thus cutting out a great deal of the Hibiki tomfoolery)
D-boy wrote:Now, true there are some sentai that could easily equal one rider (Takeru comes to mind), there are many that don't.
mrangel wrote:Unfortunately, in the absence of direct 'vs' episodes, its very hard to comparatively assess any characters' strengths. You can probably put all the 'vs' eps together, and come up with a big list of "Attack X does more damage than attack Y", and "Armour X can withstand Attack Y but not Attack Z" ... but that's not really enough information.
If you wanted to do some kind of simulation (which I think would be kind of fun, though time consuming, to set up ... but then I'm a game theory geek), the best you could probably come up with is a massive list of "Attack X (is/isn't) powerful enough to (damage/demolish/damage) a (bridge/road/building)" ... which then allows you to at least rank the power of certain attacks into classes.
That was kinda my point. Aside from the Decade episodes, I don't recall any other cross over (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). As such we have only that one instance of comparison... and even that is tainted:

1) The kaijin was powered up using a rider's henshin device
2) Decade is in his compete (read: ultimate) form, Shinken Red was not
3) While Decade was in his final form, he uses one of his normal from's final attacks (FFR Blade)
4) Said attack was performed by Shinken Red, so we can't be certain if being in "Complete" form charged up the attack or not
5) Both hero's final attacks were used against the same enemy at the same time... after said enemy took a final attack to the face.

Though, through part of the battle, Shinken Red does take on Blade for a bit. No decisive outcome though as both heroes kept trading fighting partners.

So even the event we all keep pointing to is not a real indicator of anyone as the situation was anything but an ideal rider or sentai fight.
D-boy wrote:More so, with that 2-1, the sentai can't make as strong of a use of their team tactics. Not that they couldn't, it just wouldn't be the all powerful asset some have made it so far.
mrangel wrote:Teamwork is an advantage, but also a disadvantage.

Most of the rangers' ultimate attacks are "team bazooka" type things. Now, if you assume they're equally matched to start with, then both teams will suffer 10% losses in the same arbitrary time period (lets call it a "turn").

So ... first turn over. Riders are down to 110, rangers down to something like 190. But of those rangers, you've got (*does statistical number crunching*) 19 'full' squadrons, 17 teams with 1-3 members down, and 2 guys standing around wondering where all their friends went.

For the riders, taking out 10% of their numbers means their firepower goes down by 10%.
For the rangers, taking out 10% of the numbers reduces their effective firepower by about 30%.

Even if the diminished rangers manage to give as good as they get in subsequent turns (maybe the emotional boost they get from losing comrades gives them an advantage to compensate), by the end of turn 5 you're looking at about 60 riders remaining, and 1 complete ranger squadron.

Oh ... one more thing occurs to me.
What kind of attack is most useful in a massed battle? I don't think I've ever seen a ranger with an effective AoE. (Not sure if someone already mentioned that, though)


I would be seriously interested in putting together a simulation of all this ... putting together a perl script to model the battle as accurately as possible given known information. If anyone's curious or bored or insane enough to help out, we could go through all the available specials coming up with "Attack X beats object Y" (where object Y might be an enemy or a building), and construct a corpus of known data. Then, sensibly, it would be possible to get a computer model to assign semi-random power levels that fit the known criteria. I'd say that's about the best you can get without introducing preconceptions about whether we *think* an attack should be stronger than another.
Sadly, while that would be supremely awesome, the amount of material you'd need to comb over and the leaps of logic and such would be too pain staking. Trust me, I've watch folks try to stat out Ranma...

True, at least with most riders, I'm sure there are canon 'stats' that we could use if we could dig them up, but i don't think that plays as much a part as the writers whims and the special effects guys twitchy fingers. XD

Still, what you got so far is pretty interesting.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Catastrophe »

FYI: Riotroopers do count. The gears count as Rider Systems, and DiEnd can summon them using a Kamen Ride card, so yes, they are riders, although only the number of gears from the series should be counted (the PL design came first, and was slightly different with a shoulder mounted activator, this design hasn't been carried forward in canon). Not to mention G3 and G4 are Kamen Riders as well. Zect Troopers definitely do not count.

These rider 'stats' you speak of do exist, but they usually just have crap like how high the Rider can jump and the force of their Rider Kick (given in Tonnes, as in equivalent to how many tonnes of Dynamite would be needed to get the same effect). Go have a gander at a Rider page on wiki if you want a look see.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Favine »

look this is how it goes. Sentai needs to call on the gaint mechs to even think about winning. then... wait whats that? all riders doing a super Rider Kick on there mechs. ((Riders all the way.))

Unless rangers do something like bring there mechs together to make gaint mech... then that just saves time and the riders can all kick the same mech.

Plus they well have the only Amercian rider there with them. Chuck Norris who is Kamen Rider Walker. jk
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Favine »

But the battle would be so epic it would destroy the world. so they would have to fight some were else.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by DrowningFishy »

Favine wrote:look this is how it goes. Sentai needs to call on the gaint mechs to even think about winning. then... wait whats that? all riders doing a super Rider Kick on there mechs. ((Riders all the way.))

Unless rangers do something like bring there mechs together to make gaint mech... then that just saves time and the riders can all kick the same mech.

Plus they well have the only Amercian rider there with them. Chuck Norris who is Kamen Rider Walker. jk

You want to make me ask if Kamen Rider HG counts (youtube it), before you say it was only a talk show, you can't for get about Kamen Rider G. Though, XD, Kamen Rider HG is gag while Kamen Rider G is awesome tiney movie.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Catastrophe »

Officially, neither count, although I'd be inclined to include G, definitely not HG though.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Favine »

G or HG would really not have to anything back act like there fighting, the other rider's well kick ass. If anything the others well be hungry and need something to eat and drink after win and Bam there goes G with the food.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by kkkk »

Isn't Caucasus enough for 10 Rangers to Handle?

*BTW, if i'm going to disregard one rider, screw them all. Kamen Rider Century FTW.*
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Therm_Kitty »

Without mechs, Riders definitely. With mechs...does Double get the HardMammother? It's going to be tougher, but between what mecha they have and hax powers, I can see them winning.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Favine »

all the riders need is OOO Gatakiriba combo and bam scsn chager that bye bye mechs.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Doublesteel »

Makai knights would win.

they have JAM project.
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by Catastrophe »

Lets be honest, Kageyama is the main voice of JAM, and he has done Sentai songs before (one Abaranger insert song, the Dino Guts one, was really hotblooded).
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Re: All Riders Versus All Rangers

Post by remolay »

Sentai has it in numbers, while Riders have it in strength.

I think they would destroy each other mutually.
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