mkv

[XIII]

People who has problems with .mkv might just need a better player or maybe a better computer.

just spotted this while reading back thru, not everybody can afford a PC upgrade these days, so you fail yet again for assuming everybody has the ability to upgrade their pc

All your arguments fail to impress and make you look like such a dork,

You don't need to download any fonts, you just need the right codecs,

FAIL of the highest order for that one

/me awaits the stupid response from some who fails so much

[pekcun]

ACC uses 5.1 streams, so yet another flaw in your argument
another is you seem to think we are an anime fansub group, which we arnt
Another thing you seem to assume is that people want to turn subs off, which is daft, why download a fansub if your just gonna turn the subs off
You also have to remember not everyone is computer savey, so they might not understand how to play a video with softsubs, which is why they like hardsubs
MP4 is the ideal choice as it is more generic and not so resource intensive, not to mention its an industry standard developed my by the Moving Picture Experts Group and is also an ISO standard, where as mkv isnt

another fail on your part is you used wikipedia to back up your argument, wiki is just a dumb source created by idiots who think they know stuff when they dont, also according to that article MP4 supports AC3, so uber FAIL on your part for yet again not reading shit up

Why do you use so many insults?
I mean, I'm really trying to be civil here.

Anyways, I'm not trying to insinuate T-N as an anime sub group, I'm just here to discuss the uses of mkv container format compared to avi container format.

The reason why people use softsubs is random, maybe they wanna try listening to the Japanese without subs, maybe they wan't to take clean pictures, whatever the reason, the fact still stands that .AVI do not support softsubs while .MKV do. Softsubs also allow people to edit the script if there are any errors or maybe some things they didn't like (For example, people who doesn't like some japanese words left untranslated). Other softsub's advantages can be found on my first post.
You don't have to be computer savvy to watch softsubs in .mkv, since the subs is already in the container format, it automatically generated. Provided you have a decent computer and the right player.

I understand how wikipedia isn't a reliable source for facts, but it's not always 100% off.
It is a fact that matroska (MKV) supports many of the more advanced features that modern audio and video compression formats will offer, such as Variable Bitrate audio encoding ( VBR ), or Variable Framerate video encoding ( VFR ). Although AVI was extended with an additional standard called 'Open DML AVI' in the mid/late 90s, overcoming most of its very annoying limitations like the 2 GB file size limit, there is still no proper and spec compliant way to support modern compression formats like the excellent, opensource Ogg Vorbis audio compression format.
matroska is overcoming all these limitations and can support all known audio and video compression formats by design. To make sure it will also be capable of coping with the future standards it is based on a very flexible underlying framework called EBML, allowing to add more functionalities to the container format without breaking backwards compatibility with older software and files.

VfW(Video for windows)/AVI is not suited to new-ish compression (including XviD), for H.264 it's even worse since it's possible to reference more frames, keep some B-frames as references, use mixed references etc.

Understand why I compared MKV H264 and AVI Xvid to DVD and VCD?

People who has problems with .mkv might just need a better player or maybe a better computer.

just spotted this while reading back thru, not everybody can afford a PC upgrade these days, so you fail yet again for assuming everybody has the ability to upgrade their pc

All your arguments fail to impress and make you look like such a dork,

You don't need to download any fonts, you just need the right codecs,

FAIL of the highest order for that one

/me awaits the stupid response from some who fails so much

About the "get a better PC" I was just being a douche, that's not exactly my argument. But it's not like playing mkv demands you to have a supercomputer or something. You just need a decent computer and the latest DirectShow parser filter, that way you will be able to play your .mkv files on Microsoft Windows with every DirectShow based player such as Windows Mediaplayer (6.4/7/8/9), Zoomplayer and BSplayer. The best playback support from Windows is currently achieved with The Core Media Player, if the matroska CDL plugin was used.
For Linux PCs, as well as for MacOSX and the X-Box emulation you have to get the newest version of mplayer, and make sure to have a compilation that will include libebml and libmatroska. Suitable RPMs are available from Mosu's mkvtoolnix site.
And if some people has a low-end computer, maybe they could visit CCCP's support section and find codecs that might help them.

And yes, I failed on that font thing.

Basically, I'm just saying that the reason why .mkv > .avi is because it's newer, supports H264 (avi supports it too but with hacks, while mkv supports h264 natively), supports multiple soft subs (optionally putting different languages, different fonts, turning it off, turning it on), supports chapters, etc.
AVI do not support the following: multi channel audio, multiple audio streams, subtitles (in DVDs they're hard subtitles - text can't be positioned and/or resized), more than 2GB file size.

Let's face it, avi was made in '92, it's getting rather old. Though the fact that it's so old and common makes people more familiar with it.
It works, true, but that doesn't exactly make it good.

I was just thinking maybe T-N could consider using H264 mkv for their releases, I'm not asking, it's just a suggestion, really.
The obvious upside would be smaller filesizes with good/better quality, avi does not natively support H264, which is why people use mkv.

[typhoon_2099]

Actually if your computer doesn't have the font that the scripts refers to, it reverts to the default font you set for subtitles which causes problems. You would have incorrect styles for the subtitles. I have seen this and it's not pretty at all. You would have Times New Roman as your font and subs that normally be two lines could expand to three easily.

That's what I meant. Although that sounds like I'm just covering up now. lol

[XIII]

>>Why do you use so many insults?
>>I mean, I'm really trying to be civil here.

Insults, what the heck you on, I just said you FAIL,

>>Anyways, I'm not trying to insinuate T-N as an anime sub group, I'm just here to discuss the uses of mkv container format compared to avi container format.

yes but all your argumenst are based on the anime fansub world, so your comparing us to a anime fansub

>>The reason why people use softsubs is random, maybe they wanna try listening to the Japanese without subs, maybe they wan't to take clean pictures,

in that case the should download a normal unsubbed copy which are available, no need to download a hardsubbed file

>> the fact still stands that .AVI do not support softsubs while .MKV do.

so your saying .srt files dont exist and i cant watch avi files with an srt, very cleaver NOT!!!

>> Softsubs also allow people to edit the script if there are any errors or maybe some things they didn't like (For example, people who doesn't like some japanese words left untranslated).

so now your saying we have loads of errors in our subs, well again, if you dont like dont download it, editing softsubs is bad as you may end up stuffing them up

>>You don't have to be computer savvy to watch softsubs in .mkv, since the subs is already in the container format, it automatically generated. Provided you have a decent computer and the right player.

again the computer argument, not everybody can, and again this relies on you having the fonts used in the subs

>>I understand how wikipedia isn't a reliable source for facts, but it's not always 100% off.

err yes it is, I have seen soo many errors on it, its even outlawed in Universities over here

>>It is a fact that matroska (MKV) supports many of the more advanced features that modern audio and video compression formats will offer, such as Variable Bitrate audio encoding ( VBR ), or Variable Framerate video encoding ( VFR ).

MP4 supports both them, and avi supports VBR audio, so your argument fails to impress again as it is very one sided there

>>Although AVI was extended with an additional standard called 'Open DML AVI' in the mid/late 90s, overcoming most of its very annoying limitations like the 2 GB file size limit, there is still no proper and spec compliant way to support modern compression formats like the excellent, opensource Ogg Vorbis audio compression format.

personally i dont like OGG its horrid not to mention it doesnt work all that well at time

>>matroska is overcoming all these limitations and can support all known audio and video compression formats by design. To make sure it will also be capable of coping with the future standards it is based on a very flexible underlying framework called EBML, allowing to add more functionalities to the container format without breaking backwards compatibility with older software and files.

matroska is only overcomming them by hacking there software to what is out there, so how is that any different from avi, very one sided again

EBML ..... why the fuck would you want to use an XML shoot off in video playback

>>Understand why I compared MKV H264 and AVI Xvid to DVD and VCD?

you do know that dvd has a limited res, only just a bit bigger than what we offer, so the analogy you should be using is

mkv h.264 = BluRay and avi XviD = DVD

since most mkv streams come from a 720p or higher source, where as dvd is 740p and below

>>And yes, I failed on that font thing.

at last one admittance that you were wrong several more to go

>>Basically, I'm just saying that the reason why .mkv > .avi is because it's newer, supports H264 (avi supports it too but with hacks, while mkv supports h264 natively), supports multiple soft subs (optionally putting different languages, different fonts, turning it off, turning it on), supports chapters, etc.
AVI do not support the following: multi channel audio, multiple audio streams, subtitles (in DVDs they're hard subtitles - text can't be positioned and/or resized), more than 2GB file size.

again your all about the softsubs, we dont do softsubs, never will, your argument is based off of what anime fansub groups do, we are not one of them, why would you want more than one frigging audio channel and sub channel when watching a fansub, tis not needed, also we only sub Japanese to English not Japanese to infinite other languages, there are other groups that deal with other languages, leave it at that

>>Let's face it, avi was made in '92, it's getting rather old. Though the fact that it's so old and common makes people more familiar with it.
It works, true, but that doesn't exactly make it good.

It does its job, what more do you want from it

>>I was just thinking maybe T-N could consider using H264 mkv for their releases, I'm not asking, it's just a suggestion, really.
The obvious upside would be smaller filesizes with good/better quality, avi does not natively support H264, which is why people use mkv.

da hell you on, smaller sizes for bigger picture res, just doesnt work, understand mkv is for HD streams really, not SD streams, have you ever seen The Scene (if you dont know what that is, walk away now) release SD files in an mkv format, I dont think so,

we are releasing HD files in MP4 format as that is the best choice for us, it gives us the options we want with the desired outcome, and this comes from two groups (Skewed and Hello) that already use this format for releases, all be it they also use it for SD releases as well, but that is their choice, we are sticking with avi for SD streams so that ALL people can watch regardless of computer spec, mkv would be a disaster as not everybody can play this yet

[pekcun]

Insults, what the heck you on, I just said you FAIL,

Yes, but you do so by making remarks that comes as an insult to me.

so uber FAIL on your part for yet again not reading shit up
All your arguments fail to impress and make you look like such a dork,
/me awaits the stupid response from some who fails so much

yes but all your argumenst are based on the anime fansub world, so your comparing us to a anime fansub

I'm comparing the uses of mkv by the anime fansub world, not the fansubs themselves.

in that case the should download a normal unsubbed copy which are available, no need to download a hardsubbed file

It would be much simpler to download one file that has softsubs no?

so your saying .srt files dont exist and i cant watch avi files with an srt, very cleaver NOT!!!

Your grammar is getting worse here, you should make posts when you're not in a hurry, man.

I'm saying that AVI does not have subs embedded in them while MKV does.

so now your saying we have loads of errors in our subs, well again, if you dont like dont download it, editing softsubs is bad as you may end up stuffing them up

No, I'm saying that people can edit in a "what if" situation where minor errors happen.

again the computer argument, not everybody can, and again this relies on you having the fonts used in the subs

I very much doubt people who watch your releases would have problems like not having a decent computer or the right fonts.

err yes it is, I have seen soo many errors on it, its even outlawed in Universities over here

It is a good introductory online encyclopedia, for more advanced explanations, people can always just google it.

MP4 supports both them, and avi supports VBR audio, so your argument fails to impress again as it is very one sided there

VBR audio in AVI is non-standard and you may encounter sync errors.
VBR audio does not work really nicely -- it breaks compatibility with several parsers.

matroska is only overcomming them by hacking there software to what is out there, so how is that any different from avi, very one sided again

What?
You... You're joking, right?

>>To make sure it will also be capable of coping with the future standards it is based on a very flexible underlying framework called EBML, allowing to add more functionalities to the container format without breaking backwards compatibility with older software and files.

EBML ..... why the fuck would you want to use an XML shoot off in video playback

It's pretty much explained.

again your all about the softsubs, we dont do softsubs, never will, your argument is based off of what anime fansub groups do, we are not one of them, why would you want more than one frigging audio channel and sub channel when watching a fansub, tis not needed, also we only sub Japanese to English not Japanese to infinite other languages, there are other groups that deal with other languages, leave it at that

I am not trying to turn you into an anime fansub group or whatever.
My point is that .mkv has several(some minor) advantages.

It does its job, what more do you want from it

For it to do a better job, isn't that what technology is about?

da hell you on, smaller sizes for bigger picture res, just doesnt work, understand mkv is for HD streams really, not SD streams, have you ever seen The Scene (if you dont know what that is, walk away now) release SD files in an mkv format, I dont think so,

I don't know what The Scene is and I don't know what you're talking about or what the hell you are on.
MKV does fine of making smaller file sizes than AVI in the same SD streams.

we are releasing HD files in MP4 format as that is the best choice for us, it gives us the options we want with the desired outcome, and this comes from two groups (Skewed and Hello) that already use this format for releases, all be it they also use it for SD releases as well, but that is their choice, we are sticking with avi for SD streams so that ALL people can watch regardless of computer spec, mkv would be a disaster as not everybody can play this yet

MP4 does fine in HD, the small advantages MKV has are chapters, and separate OP and ED sequences to save space(although since most shows nowadays make small changes in OP and ED, this isn't used much).
MP4 it pretty much exclusively is used for iPods and iPhones. mkv is used not only for fansubs but also DVD/BD/HDTV rips.

And repeating what I said earlier:
I very much doubt people who watch your releases would have problems like not having a decent computer.
As for people who has trouble playing it, you can direct them to the latest CCCP or VLC download and/or support page.

One more thing, why aren't you using quotes?

[lonegamer7]

Az, pekcun, back on topic please? If you two want an argument with each other, use the PM and don't drag others in. *seen enough board arguments lately*

I'd rather not go with .mkv. Sure, it's nice on higher quality and being able to turn off subs but what's the point of turning the subs off if the file is a "fansub"? The other negative points on .mkv is that, as some others mentioned earlier, not everyone out there is com savvy. Took me a while to find the proper codecs (that were safe) and Media Player Classic to play some vids I watch ("Witchblade" anime and some of "Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations" to name two) a few years back. Personally, I'd rather stay with .avi for ease of use unless otherwise.

[pekcun]

Az, pekcun, back on topic please? If you two want an argument with each other, use the PM and don't drag others in. *seen enough board arguments lately*

I'd rather not go with .mkv. Sure, it's nice on higher quality and being able to turn off subs but what's the point of turning the subs off if the file is a "fansub"?

Still on topic, the discussion is still about mkv.
Though there's a sub-argument in it.

For various reasons, maybe some people wants to take clean screenshots, maybe to switch between styled subs and plain subs, maybe some people want to try watching it in Japanese and turning the sub back on if there's a word they don't understand, whatever the reason may be, softsubs are very useful. You can also edit the script if there are any errors, for example, a missing line can be added.

The other negative points on .mkv is that, as some others mentioned earlier, not everyone out there is com savvy.

You don't have to be computer savvy to watch mkv, any problems with it you can solve by googling.

Took me a while to find the proper codecs (that were safe) and Media Player Classic to play some vids I watch ("Witchblade" anime and some of "Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations" to name two) a few years back. Personally, I'd rather stay with .avi for ease of use unless otherwise.

Just download CCCP or the latest VLC and(assuming you use Windows) no more problems for playing mkv, it's that easy.
Any further problems you can consult to CCCP's or VLC's support page.
For Linux PCs, as well as for MacOSX and the X-Box emulation you have to get the newest version of mplayer, and make sure to have a compilation that will include libebml and libmatroska. Suitable RPMs are available from Mosu's mkvtoolnix site.

It's not hard.

[AmienZero]

I very much doubt people who watch your releases would have problems like not having a decent computer.

i'm going to have to say something when i read this. you should know, in certain parts of the world, Pentium 4 is still considered new. YES. PENTIUM 4. not the HT version. these processors cannot handle MKV. i used to have one, even with up-to-date codecs, it's not playable. and that was 2 months ago. and besides, getting a decent computer is not everyone's priority.

also, note this. people who download TVN subs comes from all sorts of age. we even have a 40 year old member here. try to imagine if he downloads an episode for his/her kid, and that particular video can't be played because his/her computer cannot support that format, would that break his/her kid's heart? try explaining about codecs and stuffs to your parents. they'll ask you back, 'What the hell are you babbling about?' i know this because i've already tried it.

[pekcun]

I very much doubt people who watch your releases would have problems like not having a decent computer.

i'm going to have to say something when i read this. you should know, in certain parts of the world, Pentium 4 is still considered new. YES. PENTIUM 4. not the HT version. these processors cannot handle MKV. i used to have one, even with up-to-date codecs, it's not playable. and that was 2 months ago. and besides, getting a decent computer is not everyone's priority.

also, note this. people who download TVN subs comes from all sorts of age. we even have a 40 year old member here. try to imagine if he downloads an episode for his/her kid, and that particular video can't be played because his/her computer cannot support that format, would that break his/her kid's heart? try explaining about codecs and stuffs to your parents. they'll ask you back, 'What the hell are you babbling about?' i know this because i've already tried it.

How is the internet connection of those countries in the world where pentium 4 is considered new?

I doubt 40 year old guys that browses the internet and downloads videos can't purchase a decent computer.
And codec isn't a problem, I'll put on my sig the link to CCCP(A codec pack) and VLC(Standalone player), codecs problem solved.

That's a really weird case.

[AmienZero]

how about 56K? not every country has cable connection. even in my country, 56K is still considered normal connection while DSL is advanced and not affordable by many people. like i said, even i used up-to-date codecs, K-Lite Mega codec pack to be precised, MKV still isn't playable on my P4 system. even after using VLC.

[Magenta]

The day we switch from xvid-avi as our primary encode method is a sad day, IMO. It does it's job perfectly well as a storage medium for SD stuff. Softsubs, also, are quite frankly the devil. A lot of very damn hard work goes into making our typesetting as awesome as it is, and softsubbing would basically require kicking that down several notches to make it playable on lower-end systems.

I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with mkv, but we do not need nor want any of the extra features it offers. There is literally 0 reason for us to 'upgrade' to something that only puts yet another requirement on viewing and puts a HUGE additional burden on encoding.

[pekcun]

how about 56K? not every country has cable connection. even in my country, 56K is still considered normal connection while DSL is advanced and not affordable by many people. like i said, even i used up-to-date codecs, K-Lite Mega codec pack to be precised, MKV still isn't playable on my P4 system. even after using VLC.

Actually... VLC is a standalone player and codec packs would not affect it.

Ever tried CCCP?
Gonna need to uninstall K-Lite first though.

[XIII]

yet again, you assume that everyone can afford new computers all the time, people have more important things in life to worry about than having to update their computers, even i cant play mkv files on my AMD laptop of yester year that is off similiar level to the P4 and that has CoreAVC and VLC installed, still doesnt work, the hardware is a big thing for getting mkv playback.

and you dont need to place those links there since we have a playback guide which tells you were to go to get them

MP4 does support chapters, so another fail on your part

we have established that we will never use mkv so this argument is useless and not needed, you have failed to make an overwhelming case to use mkv, your basing it all on your own preferences and your own beliefs, you fail to take into account the knowledge of others and the tech level of others when making your arguments, you assume far to many things, you make arguments that can be broken because you haven't done any research first

now I suggest you sit back and actually do some reading into this whole area first so that this doesn't turn into a full blow argument again.

[AmienZero]

Ever tried CCCP?
Gonna need to uninstall K-Lite first though.

CCCP? last time it was updated was in september last year. you're telling TVN to upgrade to MKV because it's new and has a lot of features yet you promoted an old codec pack. oh the irony.

anyway, Azazel already said it. MKV will not be used. so i'm no longer continuing this discussion. btw, you signature is a major spoiler as TVN haven't finished subbing Kuuga.

[pekcun]

Ever tried CCCP?
Gonna need to uninstall K-Lite first though.

CCCP? last time it was updated was in september last year. you're telling TVN to upgrade to MKV because it's new and has a lot of features yet you promoted an old codec pack. oh the irony.

anyway, Azazel already said it. MKV will not be used. so i'm no longer continuing this discussion. btw, you signature is a major spoiler as TVN haven't finished subbing Kuuga.

I'm not "telling" it's just a suggestion, and I'm not promoting CCCP, you said you had trouble playing MKV files with the K-Lite codec pack, I thought "Hey, maybe you should try CCCP, see if it works for you.".
It's new, has more features and more to offer.
CCCP rarely update their pack because it has barely(if any) errors that can't be solved by changing a few viewing options, CCCP has worked better with MKV than VLC has. VLC fixed problems of playing MKV rather recently.

And sorry if I spoilered anything, I just thought not many would think about the monster being a major spoiler, totally my fault, sorry.

yet again, you assume that everyone can afford new computers all the time, people have more important things in life to worry about than having to update their computers, even i cant play mkv files on my AMD laptop of yester year that is off similiar level to the P4 and that has CoreAVC and VLC installed, still doesnt work, the hardware is a big thing for getting mkv playback.

and you dont need to place those links there since we have a playback guide which tells you were to go to get them

MP4 does support chapters, so another fail on your part

we have established that we will never use mkv so this argument is useless and not needed, you have failed to make an overwhelming case to use mkv, your basing it all on your own preferences and your own beliefs, you fail to take into account the knowledge of others and the tech level of others when making your arguments, you assume far to many things, you make arguments that can be broken because you haven't done any research first

now I suggest you sit back and actually do some reading into this whole area first so that this doesn't turn into a full blow argument again.

Wanna try CCCP? Might help that .mkv problem of yours. And before you go sarcastic, defensive and start saying how I'm promoting/forcing CCCP on you, it's just a friendly suggestion that I thought might help.

I'm not basing my arguments about mkv from my beliefs mkv does do all the things I said it does, and I have done research, ever thought you're the one assuming a whole lot of stuff about me?

But fine, I don't wanna get on anyone's bad side or get myself on my bad side either.
T-N won't use MKV, end discussion.