lonegamer7 wrote:
Endearments like those also indicate closeness between the two people that are involved in the conversation, or the speaker referencing the secondary person who is not in the same room as the speaker. Another is one person's opinion of the other.
Example: in "Showdown! Lori vs Chromia" in "Transformers Galaxy Force", both Lori and Sonic Bomber call Chromia "oba-san", to which Chormia takes offense. Now, the first thing some might think "why would she take offense to being called that?". However, the way how those two were saying it they meant "old lady" - some Japanese ladies don't like to be called "oba-san", making them feel old and might request others to refer to them as "ojou-san".
The endearments were only few examples of the words you could use in place, given the present context.
Then if it is taken offensively, you could just as easily say "Granny," or even "Hag," if it is said maliciously. Heck, if no harm is meant by it and she just takes it offensively, you could merely understand by her reaction.
There really is little need to throw around words like "Oba-san." Granted, I do agree that some words are better left to romaji with a translators note as the interpretation to english is sometimes very difficult. however, this is not one of them; along with mother, father, etc.
The first Japanese show I watched was the TVN subbed Sailor Moon, followed by Go-Onger, and I haven't had any problem whatsoever with -chan, -san, -tachi or whatever, especially how the subs explain what the term means.
I would prefer that the subs keep this going, as because of this I have actually learned a little bit of Japanese.
I'm with translating the word father, mother, aunt, grandpa etc.
Simply because they are used in daily english.
Regarding honorifics, I think it's better to leave them when used with names, i.e "Mio-san" or "Kengo-san".
please don't change because some "one" don't like it. TN please maintain the current form of translation. its awkward to follow the dialog if everything is in English, please maintain the special Japanese term.
not to be rude, but "otou-san" "okaa-san" "obaa-san" "oba-san" "ojii-san" "oji-san" aren't actually special japanese terms. Special japanese terms are such like Chouji Oil (oil used in sword maintenance and is not made of pure clove oil) etc that cannot be translate into english.
harpdevil wrote:...and although I could very distinctly hear "Yondaime" (the characters name), the subtitles read "the Fourth"...
Not to mess with your argument, but I believe "Yondaime" isn't his name. It literally translates to "the Fourth". Though I see your point.
Yondaime is certainly what everyone calls him, at least he has not been called anything else during the history of the show, nor can I find anything online that calls him anything different. Srange that it translates to the fourth, I didn't know that. If they have been calling him by his title all this time I wonder why no-one has mentioned his name, there's no reason to hide it. Well, maybe his last name but not his first. Ah well, that makes sense out of that translation then.
Demon beasts called Horrors live in the darkness. This is a story of a Makai Knight who cuts down the Horrors. You better not look away.
harpdevil wrote:Yondaime is certainly what everyone calls him, at least he has not been called anything else during the history of the show, nor can I find anything online that calls him anything different. Srange that it translates to the fourth, I didn't know that. If they have been calling him by his title all this time I wonder why no-one has mentioned his name, there's no reason to hide it. Well, maybe his last name but not his first. Ah well, that makes sense out of that translation then.
As William_Duel mentionned, Yondaime is only a title (just like how Tsunade should be called Godaime). His name is Namizake Minato. I can't remember where they mentioned his name for the first time, but for sure, his name was mentioned in one of Jiraiya's flashback.
Maybe someone can make some sort of FAQ thread with the translation of the untranslated words in the subs to explain things like tou-chan, otou-sama, or whatever fits.
Guys, it's messed up for me again and I'm a vet at this kinda stuff. Episode 42 of Kiva, Mio takes down some woman and is confronted by Maya. Mio calls Maya "Oka-sama". Now... is she calling Maya an "old woman" or is she calling Maya "mother" in honor?
Kiva's my favorite toku of the year, guys. And you've been doing a spectacular job up 'til now.
It does a disservice to some of your viewers and properly translating these words so that everyone can understand what the characters are trying to get across does a service to everyone except those who want others to "try harder".
Please guys... stop doing this. You've been doing a great job for years now. Why cater to just "the hardcore" when if you cater to the otherside EVERYONE gets to understand what's going on.
If you want to teach me Japanese... translate it. I do know some thanks to you guys and Have a general idea of when Otosan is used, but sometimes I think they carry different weight in english. Like this very crucial interaction between Mio and Maya. I cannot tell if she was honoring Maya or insulting her and that's very important to my enjoyment of the show which up to this point has been pretty flawless.
You guys once did such a good job of translating that I often forgot I was reading subtitles. Now the subtitles call attention to themselves where I'm forced to wonder, "Wait... what? Who?"
Please don't do this....
[HJU Twitter!]
[Click Here to Subscribe to the HJU Radio Podcast, now on iTunes!]
Guys, it's messed up for me again and I'm a vet at this kinda stuff. Episode 42 of Kiva, Mio takes down some woman and is confronted by Maya. Mio calls Maya "Oka-sama". Now... is she calling Maya an "old woman" or is she calling Maya "mother" in honor?
Now this phrase would have confused you whether it was translated or not. Oka-Sama doesn';t mean 'old woman" it does mean mother in a respectful way. The reason she says it is simply because Maya would end up being Mio's mother in law whether she ended up with Taiga or Wataru. So she's getting her foot in the door and basically saying "Mom". I believe the same goes for any married couple, you'd call the mother in law mom (I could be wrong there are horror stories so some people wouldn't want to be so affectionate).
I think this is a hard topic to draw a close on. Just from my experiences, I basically either learned on my own, through others liner notes or just over time. So I never cared one way or another because if I wasn't clear on something I looked it up. I understand people don't want to do this nor am I saying this is the be all, end all. It's really just up to how the group wants to do it and who they want to cater to. But I feel that when you are watching shows like these that draw heavily from their cultural backgrounds, you just have to grit your teeth and eventually enough exposure will lead you to the answer. That's my take on it. But I just don't see this argument ending any time soon since its such a polarized discussion.
One thing I wanted to add is that people coming into this also come from different cultural backgrounds, so these literal translations people are adovcating for also need consideration of the backgrounds of others. For example, there are people here who come from England and some of the stuff Americans say is probably a little strange as far as this kind of stuff goes. (I think someone mentioned how they felt calling one sis or bro is peculiar when it is commonplace around these parts) So I think that this adds another layer to it, there are many other english speakers in nonUS non UK countries.
Bauffie wrote:His name is Namizake Minato. I can't remember where they mentioned his name for the first time, but for sure, his name was mentioned in one of Jiraiya's flashback.
I don't think his name has been explicitly mentioned in the anime yet, only the manga. I didn't mention it the first time because I wanted to avoid spoilers for the anime-only viewers .
Guys, it's messed up for me again and I'm a vet at this kinda stuff. Episode 42 of Kiva, Mio takes down some woman and is confronted by Maya. Mio calls Maya "Oka-sama". Now... is she calling Maya an "old woman" or is she calling Maya "mother" in honor?
Now this phrase would have confused you whether it was translated or not. Oka-Sama doesn';t mean 'old woman" it does mean mother in a respectful way. The reason she says it is simply because Maya would end up being Mio's mother in law whether she ended up with Taiga or Wataru. So she's getting her foot in the door and basically saying "Mom". I believe the same goes for any married couple, you'd call the mother in law mom (I could be wrong there are horror stories so some people wouldn't want to be so affectionate).
What bothers me, I guess, is that in all these years of watching TVN subs... I never needed an explanation. I felt almost cocky in how much Japanese I picked up just by watching and listening.
It wouldn't have confused me either way. If it was translated, "mother..." I would have known exactally what was going on. But the way the scene played out, and the looks exchanged either meaning could have been there and I'm a vet at this. Such associations shouldn't be left for the viewer to translate themselves.
[HJU Twitter!]
[Click Here to Subscribe to the HJU Radio Podcast, now on iTunes!]
^That's my point. Conflict and complaint shouldn't need to happen. You guys have been rockstars all these years, why stop now? The only ones this makes happy is those who won't be affected either way and for some reason want others to... have to work a little harder to enjoy the stuff they watch.
[HJU Twitter!]
[Click Here to Subscribe to the HJU Radio Podcast, now on iTunes!]
Originally, I was neutral on the idea of whether some of the family terms needed to be translated. Seeing the Japanese terms written out have never bothered me, although I remember it surprised me early on in Kiva (for, I believe, the use of Kaa-san). Having visited a number of forums, I know the way certain words are translated can be a hot button issue for other fans.
However, a long car ride with nothing besides my thoughts for company has firmly rooted me in the camp of keeping things the way they are. Ironically, it was seeing the Maya-Mio scene of Kiva 42 that helped me reach that conclusion. There's a strong emotional undercurrent and almost sarcasm to the way Mio calls Maya "Okaa-sama" that probably would have been lost with a translation to "Mother." After all, Mio wasn't calling Maya mother, she was calling her by a title and directly referencing her ties to Wataru and Taiga. And in case you're wondering, I don't speak Japanese and I've only been watching these shows since the summer. It could be that my interpretation of the scene was wrong, but combining the meanings of "Okaa" and "sama" didn't seem all that complicated and took maybe an extra second or two of reflection. I don't feel like any sort of disservice was done to me by having that term in the subs.
I suppose it comes back to honorifics for me. I think it's important to preserve them in the translations/subs, and they cause the root term (okaa, otou, etc.) to mean different things. I believe someone referenced the ability to use variations in English words for family members, such as father, dad, daddy, etc. all having the same basic meaning. However, it feels purer to me not to be making that judgment call as to what the appropriate English equivalent is - it can differ on a family to family basis whether one of those words is more respectful than another. Personally, I want to see the honorific and it would be more awkward to see something like Mother-sama or Mom-san that how the terms are currently being written out.
The final reason I would like to see the terms continue to be used is consistency, and from what I've read in this thread, I believe that's also the reason the terms are not being translated to English as frequently as they once were. I'm only a handful of episodes into Magiranger, but it's already apparent that the various sibling terms are used a lot. There's no doubt in my mind that they need to be kept - it would look extremely awkward to translate something like "Ji-nee" to "second sister" every time it was used. And, if you're going to keep those words untranslated, it would be more disorienting to flip between a Japanese word and an English word if someone happens to be speaking to a sister and a mother (for example) at the same time.
Basically, I think of them as nicknames in a sense and, just like specialized terms, I don't feel that it's appropriate to translate nicknames. Therefore, when a parent or aunt or grandfather is being directly addressed, I think the Japanese term should continue being used in the subs. The only time I think the English translation would be more appropriate than the Japanese term is if the term is referencing mothers, fathers, or grandparents generally rather than a specific person. Since I'm pretty sure that is what's already being done, I'm happy with the status quo.
Demon beasts called Horrors live in the darkness. This is a story of a Makai Knight who cuts down the Horrors. You better not look away.
.
