Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Forum for any member who isn't in the NoPowerRangers group. Talk about Americanized shows like Power Rangers and Dragon Knight here.
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Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by Deka_Hero » Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:15 pm

What to you think about the current state of america toku?

-RPM has finished and so has power rangers first run, rerun's of MMPR start Jan. 2nd.
-Dragon Knight was canned before it could finish its run (the remaining two episodes are on the internet though) Due to low ratings and some have speculated, poor toy sales.
-Interest in domestic toku is on the rise, with talk of Capitan Power possibly being revived and rumors of Disney shopping the Mysitc Knights of Tir -Ra-Nog IP to outside production houses.

what are you thoughts?
Last edited by Deka_Hero on Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by AkuTenshiiZero » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:24 pm

Personally, I think the question lies not with the state of tokusatsu, but with the state of superheroes.

If you walk into a comic book shop nowadays, take a quick head count of people over 20 vs. kids. I'm willing to bet the differance will be heavily skewed towards adults who grew up in the 80's and 90's. Note that big superhero movies in recent years have been tailored mostly to appeal to a mature audience. Note the lack of sales in superhero-related toys vs. the sales of more expensive collectors items.

In short: American children's pop culture has changed, and the brightly-colored champions of justice have found themselves unmarketable.

What it boils down to is that kids don't care about superheroes anymore, and tokusatsu is really nothing more than Japanese superheroes. Therefore, if toku is going to survive in the states, I believe it's best chance is to switch focus from the new generation and start focusing on the older crowd. I predict that re-airing MMPR will reveal a more mature fanbase, those who grew up watching it's origional run.

This is why I think KRDK was unsuccessful. If it had been aired in a prime-time slot and aimed towards adults, it might have done much better. What the people behind TV have failed to realize is that the 20-30 year old generation can still enjoy what has often been seen as "kid shows".

Anyways, that is my 2 cents on the matter.
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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by CrimsonJoker » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:03 pm

My reasoning is that they should stop airing these as kids shows. Add in drama, amp up the stakes to what they rightly are, mention the taboo word(Say it with me 4Kids, 'Death'). Perhaps Adult Swim or Syfi airing them as a more direct adaptation, or use an anime company do the voice over and make it a straight up dub.
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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by ZGMF-X20A STRIKE FREEDOM » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:39 pm

The people who are adapting toku and what not need to cut watering things down too much, and also need to stop making things in the show overly cheesy or just flat out dumb imo. Just cause it's targeting children doesn't mean it has to be that childish......i mean look at Batman: The animated series, it didn't lose any elements that made the show dark and kept most of the characters consistent with who they were suppose to be. Hell it even had guns for christ sakes, even tho they never showed anyone get killed (unless it was one of the animated feature movies) they could still imply in some way.

Im pretty sure kids can tolerate serious stories in America, but then again it could be the soccer moms bitching thats preventing it. Cause i know for a fact many kids went to see things probably considered "Beyond their understanding" like Batman Begins, The Dark Knight (which was pretty hardcore given what they do throughout the whole film) , hell even things that have sex jokes like Micheal bay's Transformers movies and they still manage to live or think its cool -___-.

But yea in general, its not surprising that American toku ended up in the state its in. The shows weren't even intended for the west despite being altered to cater different audiences in various countries. And im pretty sure kids are smart enough to spot the flaws in PR that make it cheesy and what not. Plus we're living in an age where the tweens and retarded disney pop stars are rising.....kinda hard to compete with new fads and trends. Plus it seems like the people behind tv don't give a damn anyway seeing as how theres no after school programing for kids anymore, and even saturday morning slots got shorter for the most part.....aside from CN which has things 24/7.
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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by Kaheraji » Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:28 pm

Deka_Hero wrote:-Interest in domestic toku is on the rise, with talk of Capitan Power possibly being revived and rumors of Disney shopping the Mysitc Knights of Tir -Ra-Nog IP to outside production houses.
:shock:

Excuse me?

Disney also has a Toku in Aaron Stone, but that unfortunately has also been canceled, and just needs to air the 14 episodes that make up its second season that starts in February.

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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by DarkProject » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:28 am

Kaheraji wrote:Disney also has a Toku in Aaron Stone, but that unfortunately has also been canceled, and just needs to air the 14 episodes that make up its second season that starts in February.
Aaron Stone counts as Toku? I guess since it is basically a Gridman/Syber-Squad ripoff, it would, but I've never thought of it that way.

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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by That Guy » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:33 pm

ZGMF-X20A STRIKE FREEDOM wrote:But yea in general, its not surprising that American toku ended up in the state its in. The shows weren't even intended for the west despite being altered to cater different audiences in various countries. And im pretty sure kids are smart enough to spot the flaws in PR that make it cheesy and what not.
I'm going to be honest. I thought Power Rangers was hardcore until I was 12. I didn't start wincing at the cheesy dialogue until Dino Thunder or S.P.D. The biggest flaw I ever saw was that nobody ever figured out who the rangers of a respective season were despite the fact that they all hung out in a group coincidentally the size of the number of Rangers that year and they wore one of the ranger's colors all the damn time. Aside from that, I thought it was weird that they used three sets of zords in MMPR, and I didn't figure out for a little while that the megazord fights were guys in costumes, so I always wondered why they looked kind of different from the toys. :P

But I agree that they kiddify Power Rangers, and children's entertainment in general, way too much because they underestimate what kids will find scary. The parents television council criticized Cartoon Network for showing scenes of realistic harm and death happening to people in Rave Master. Spoilers, people, kids know that people can die. They know people can be hurt. It's probably better to show more realistic depictions of fighting and violence than Looney Toons kind of stuff. Would you rather kids know that people can be hurt and die, or that they can drop anvils on people and they'll be just fine?

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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by AkuTenshiiZero » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:54 pm

Drago11 wrote:It's probably better to show more realistic depictions of fighting and violence than Looney Toons kind of stuff. Would you rather kids know that people can be hurt and die, or that they can drop anvils on people and they'll be just fine?
Dude, Loony Toons is epic. Do not knock the bunny. :lol:

That aside, Batman TAS is an excellent example of how fr a cartoon can go. I recall an episode where they acctually killed Batgirl, complete with her dying dramatically in her father's arms (An illusion by Scarecrow, granted, but the point still stands). Even later in Justice League they killed a character (offscreen, but with Batman carrying her body afterwards).

So why are such themes as death now considdered inappropriate, even though they were just fine 10 years ago? Even in anime, for example Dragonball Z was loaded with extreme violence and death. We played Mortal Kombat and Doom for cryin' out loud! How many people remember the death of Optimus Prime!?

I could go on all day.

Kids can take it. What we need is less censorship, and more parents willing to teach their children right from wrong.
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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by ZGMF-X20A STRIKE FREEDOM » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:59 pm

Drago11 wrote:
ZGMF-X20A STRIKE FREEDOM wrote:But yea in general, its not surprising that American toku ended up in the state its in. The shows weren't even intended for the west despite being altered to cater different audiences in various countries. And im pretty sure kids are smart enough to spot the flaws in PR that make it cheesy and what not.
I'm going to be honest. I thought Power Rangers was hardcore until I was 12. I didn't start wincing at the cheesy dialogue until Dino Thunder or S.P.D. The biggest flaw I ever saw was that nobody ever figured out who the rangers of a respective season were despite the fact that they all hung out in a group coincidentally the size of the number of Rangers that year and they wore one of the ranger's colors all the damn time. Aside from that, I thought it was weird that they used three sets of zords in MMPR, and I didn't figure out for a little while that the megazord fights were guys in costumes, so I always wondered why they looked kind of different from the toys. :P

But I agree that they kiddify Power Rangers, and children's entertainment in general, way too much because they underestimate what kids will find scary. The parents television council criticized Cartoon Network for showing scenes of realistic harm and death happening to people in Rave Master. Spoilers, people, kids know that people can die. They know people can be hurt. It's probably better to show more realistic depictions of fighting and violence than Looney Toons kind of stuff. Would you rather kids know that people can be hurt and die, or that they can drop anvils on people and they'll be just fine?
Well I kinda winced back then at whatever Billy said that just sounded ridiculous or the stupid stuff Bulk and Skull did in an attempt to bully the rangers. And yea the sfx they had for Bulk and Skull were just kinda lame to me back then too. But yea of course like every other kid back then, i overlooked it thanks to the awesomeness of the fight scenes which is all i cared about back then.

Im guessing 9/11 had a hand in the kiddifying of various shows these days....i remember CN stopped airing Mobile Suit Gundam because it was about war and stuff >__>. But even still it makes me wonder why don't they ever show people bleeding....i mean jesus christ im pretty sure kids know how blood looks like cause they've probably gotten into their fair share of accidents and have gotten a cut or two.
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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by Deka_Hero » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:30 am

ZGMF-X20A STRIKE FREEDOM wrote: Im guessing 9/11 had a hand in the kiddifying of various shows these days....i remember CN stopped airing Mobile Suit Gundam because it was about war and stuff >__>.
Actually, they used 9/11 as a excuse to pull it off the air (before it finished its run) and to get out of their contract to air it at least three time trough because it was getting lower than expected ratings.

SO they didn't pull it due to the highend sensitivity about war and death towards kids post 9/11, they made it seem like that so they could dump a floundering series with no complaints from viewers.

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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by Leonite Rider » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:57 am

AkuTenshiiZero wrote:
Drago11 wrote:It's probably better to show more realistic depictions of fighting and violence than Looney Toons kind of stuff. Would you rather kids know that people can be hurt and die, or that they can drop anvils on people and they'll be just fine?
Dude, Loony Toons is epic. Do not knock the bunny. :lol:

That aside, Batman TAS is an excellent example of how fr a cartoon can go. I recall an episode where they acctually killed Batgirl, complete with her dying dramatically in her father's arms (An illusion by Scarecrow, granted, but the point still stands). Even later in Justice League they killed a character (offscreen, but with Batman carrying her body afterwards).

So why are such themes as death now considdered inappropriate, even though they were just fine 10 years ago? Even in anime, for example Dragonball Z was loaded with extreme violence and death. We played Mortal Kombat and Doom for cryin' out loud! How many people remember the death of Optimus Prime!?

I could go on all day.

Kids can take it. What we need is less censorship, and more parents willing to teach their children right from wrong.
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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by EndlessWaltz24 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:53 pm

AkuTenshiiZero wrote:
Drago11 wrote:It's probably better to show more realistic depictions of fighting and violence than Looney Toons kind of stuff. Would you rather kids know that people can be hurt and die, or that they can drop anvils on people and they'll be just fine?
Dude, Loony Toons is epic. Do not knock the bunny. :lol:

That aside, Batman TAS is an excellent example of how fr a cartoon can go. I recall an episode where they acctually killed Batgirl, complete with her dying dramatically in her father's arms (An illusion by Scarecrow, granted, but the point still stands). Even later in Justice League they killed a character (offscreen, but with Batman carrying her body afterwards).

So why are such themes as death now considdered inappropriate, even though they were just fine 10 years ago? Even in anime, for example Dragonball Z was loaded with extreme violence and death. We played Mortal Kombat and Doom for cryin' out loud! How many people remember the death of Optimus Prime!?

I could go on all day.

Kids can take it. What we need is less censorship, and more parents willing to teach their children right from wrong.
Well... you can thank Jack Parker for why censorship in games increased.... along with Columbine and all that other crap. Let's face it, soccer moms have crazy pull in this country and unless (I can pray and hope XD) we start getting politicians who are into the stuff that we like, we're never gonna get our say. What was it that the president of 4kids said about anime censorship? Something along the lines of "teenagers and older viewers of anime need to get a life because anime is for kids"? The problem we have right now is the stigma that toku, anime, and games have for Americans. Until hardcore gaming and such becomes more acceptable in American adult culture, we're not gonna see a change. Furthermore, until parents learn that it is their job to be responsible for what their kids do, and not just complain to others when their children start to crap, we're not gonna see a change in censorship.

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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by Darkster » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:33 pm

EndlessWaltz24 wrote:
Well... you can thank Jack Parker for why censorship in games increased.... along with Columbine and all that other crap. Let's face it, soccer moms have crazy pull in this country and unless (I can pray and hope XD) we start getting politicians who are into the stuff that we like, we're never gonna get our say. What was it that the president of 4kids said about anime censorship? Something along the lines of "teenagers and older viewers of anime need to get a life because anime is for kids"? The problem we have right now is the stigma that toku, anime, and games have for Americans. Until hardcore gaming and such becomes more acceptable in American adult culture, we're not gonna see a change. Furthermore, until parents learn that it is their job to be responsible for what their kids do, and not just complain to others when their children start to crap, we're not gonna see a change in censorship.
Damn straight. Toku was making such a break in American culture with Dragon Knight, but the momentum got cut short, so now we have to wait for another decent adaptation if toku's ever going to be made in America the way it should be. Hopefully, the amount of people demanding toku is on the rise. Thank you Dragon Knight! Thank you Kamen Rider! It's still got a way to go, but hopefully, when the day comes, I'll look back at this post and I'll be able to believe that almost everything's possible.

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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by CrimsonJoker » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:31 pm

Darkster wrote:
EndlessWaltz24 wrote:
Well... you can thank Jack Parker for why censorship in games increased.... along with Columbine and all that other crap. Let's face it, soccer moms have crazy pull in this country and unless (I can pray and hope XD) we start getting politicians who are into the stuff that we like, we're never gonna get our say. What was it that the president of 4kids said about anime censorship? Something along the lines of "teenagers and older viewers of anime need to get a life because anime is for kids"? The problem we have right now is the stigma that toku, anime, and games have for Americans. Until hardcore gaming and such becomes more acceptable in American adult culture, we're not gonna see a change. Furthermore, until parents learn that it is their job to be responsible for what their kids do, and not just complain to others when their children start to crap, we're not gonna see a change in censorship.
Damn straight. Toku was making such a break in American culture with Dragon Knight, but the momentum got cut short, so now we have to wait for another decent adaptation if toku's ever going to be made in America the way it should be. Hopefully, the amount of people demanding toku is on the rise. Thank you Dragon Knight! Thank you Kamen Rider! It's still got a way to go, but hopefully, when the day comes, I'll look back at this post and I'll be able to believe that almost everything's possible.
I wonder if the 4kids president realizes whose actually BUYNIG the crap he sells to get money?
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Re: Thoughts on the current state of american toku..

Post by Darkster » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:22 pm

CrimsonJoker wrote:
Darkster wrote: Damn straight. Toku was making such a break in American culture with Dragon Knight, but the momentum got cut short, so now we have to wait for another decent adaptation if toku's ever going to be made in America the way it should be. Hopefully, the amount of people demanding toku is on the rise. Thank you Dragon Knight! Thank you Kamen Rider! It's still got a way to go, but hopefully, when the day comes, I'll look back at this post and I'll be able to believe that almost everything's possible.
I wonder if the 4kids president realizes whose actually BUYING the crap he sells to get money?
The President does not, but the good things is 4Kids is almost dead, so some other company may take all of the anime and distribute it correctly. Remember, he's the guy who says anime is for children and that anime with cards and getting a card-making deal is not a sad attempt to re-cash on Yu-Gi-Oh!'s success. A year or two's all it's going to take. As long as he denies the truth, we'll get what we want.

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