Fixing Ninninger

Nin nin de gozaru!
Forum rules
Image

Wiki Link

< Toqger | Ninninger | Jyuohger >

Current Spoiler Policy: Rumors and basic info about upcoming show okay. Further plot development like extra rangers not okay.
Greenstalker
Gabu
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:37 am
Male: Yes

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Greenstalker » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:39 am

I might be only one who didn't have any problem with otomonin's diversity. They are ninja's and traditionally a ninja uses whatever they can to do the job and ninja animals are cliche on their own maybe ufomaru and surfermaru (along with dumb truck) really out of place but none of the other ones looked that out of place to me.

Another thing is I want another serious series like someone else said last one was gobusters and it is debatable how serious it was when red was frozen in his track when he saw chicken. I am not saying comedy show immediatly means bad show I liked many of the past comedy shows like gekirangers, kyouryuugers or goongers but it is still a minus point for me until it gets to 10+ episodes.

User avatar
takenoko
Team Baron
Team Baron
Posts: 27764
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:33 pm
Male: Yes
Favorite series: All of them
Alignment: Neutral
My boom: stick
Quote: "Are you the new monarch, or are you just a pawn of fate?" - Emerald Herald
Type: ISFJ Protector
Location: Yami ni umare, yami ni kisu
Contact:

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by takenoko » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:48 am

ViRGE wrote:
takenoko wrote:Maybe it's all in my head or it's a theory pulled out of my ass,
So you're saying the two are connected, perhaps? :P

(Sorry, that one was too easy to pass up)
Well they both do the same thing, for the most part. LOL

kangchan
7X
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:48 am
Male: Yes

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by kangchan » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:50 am

takenoko wrote:I have high hopes for Jyuohger. I think they were just saving the budget for it since it's an anniversary series, so they went a bit cheaper for Ninnin and Toq. Maybe it's all in my head or it's a theory pulled out of my ass, but in general it seems like they have a real good sentai series, then maybe one that has less effort spent on it. Then another good one.

For every Shinken we get a Gosei. We have a Gokai and then a Go-Bus (even though both are fantastic). A Kyouryuu, then a Toq and a Ninnin.
I already checked the information about Producer on Sentai since Shinkenger up to now, there are some interesting points:

-Omori Takahito: Producer of KR Den-O, KR Kiva (co-producer with Takebe Naomi), Goseiger, Kyoryuger, KR Drive.
-Utsunomiya Takaaki: Producer of Gekiranger, Shinkenger, Gokaiger, KR Wizard, ToQGer, Zyuohger
-Takebe Naomi: Producer of KR OOO, Go-Busters, KR Gaim, Ninninger

So does only Utsunomiya Takaaki have "pure Sentai style", when compare with Takebe Naomi and Omori Takahito? Since two of them make more Rider series than Sentai.

User avatar
Atragon
01
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:08 am
Male: Yes
Favorite series: Blade/Shinkenger
2ndFavoriteSeries: Kiva/Magiranger

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Atragon » Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:46 am

I’m disappointed. Ninninger turned out to be very weak season of Sentai.

First of all, characters are flat like a board. Takaharu is theoretically crazy one and super cool guy. Or rather… he should be. In practice he is just a moron yelling all the time stupid things. Fuuka suffering serious illness called “total lack of character”. Kinji and Nagi were interesting around 30 episode. I was hope then, that there is going something interesting, but in the end that was again wasted potential. I agree with everyone that Kasumi was the most intriguing character. I feel that her potential has been pushed into the background after episode 20 or maybe later. BUT, the one I personally hate most is… Yakumo. Oh came on! Episodes dedicated to him were just weak. He love his landmover curly… cury or whatever it was. Really?! Episode with Tsubasa Ozu was also quite a disappointment. Stuff with this little girl and love was confusing and uninteresting. Just sick episode though.

Another very serious problem in Ninninger is MOTW scheme used too much. We got a whole bunch of MOTW episodes, that do not any progress in character development or in story overall.

There was only two plot twists. Identity of Kyuemon and the way to obtain “last ninja” title. Honestly it did not any impression on me.

In my opinion the most important thing in Sentai is… story development in last 3-6 episodes. Do you remember episodes 44-49 in Gekiranger? Or 44-49 in Shinkenger? They were just EPIC and fully enjoyable. They bind whole season together and give the new meaning to the story. Something that make you feel “Yes, that was suitable ending”. We are near end of Ninninger and I don’t feel anything like that.

IMHO Ninninger turned out to be weakest season of 4-th Sentai decade. Even Goseiger and Toqger were more enjoyable.
Finished series:

KR: V3, Amazon, all from Black to Ex-Aid. (22 in total)
Sentai: Sunvulcan, Maskman, Liveman, Jetman to Dairanger, Carranger, all from Gaoranger to Kyuuranger. (24 in total)

Currently watching: Build, Lupinranger

User avatar
Phoenix512
Rising to the Top
Rising to the Top
Posts: 6575
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:29 pm

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Phoenix512 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:59 am

Go-On Macaroni wrote:
Phoenix512 wrote:The first final Gabi fight would have been really good if the other characters were the ones who defeated him but they just had to defer to the moron. The message itself was twisted to be about them waiting for him to come back instead of getting stronger when he's not there to save them.
I don't quite see how that was the message. He was meant as the rival to Takaharu so it made sense that Taka was the one who took him down, you wouldn't have say Yellow Flash take down Kaura or Green Sai take down Doctor Kemp. Red's are meant to have a rival and fight them in beautiful sunset duels and I'm prolly digressing because the staff couldn't treat it with as much respect as it deserved but, I still feel that's what it was going for.
I would disagree since he did beat Gabi one on one in the previous episode. He had nothing else to prove at that point but he manage to convince everyone that he had to be there and not just watch them from the back. Also Gabi isn't really a rival since he died so early. True rivals last until near the end of the series.
FirenOh wrote:I think the only reason I disliked Kyouryuu was due to how forced Daigo and Ami's romance was at the end, and how it somehow became a central plot element. Probably the worst Toku Romance I've ever seen, which is saying a lot since Wizard aired that same year.
I'm probably one of the few who thought that romance was okay. Neither of them really know what to do for the most part. You got Daigo who got dino on the brain while Amy is the tomboy.
Kogashi wrote:First off, cause I see this comes up a lot in talks bout current Super Sentais as well as future ones... I really do not like the idea of 'oh, it's a comedy one thus it won't be good'. I know I'm not sharing a popular opinion here but I hate Go-Busters. Granted, I did finish it which is more than I can say for Ninnin here, which I got bored of around episode 30 and haven't bothered catch up with, but I did actively care about the characters stories, I wanted to see, when I was watching it, where they went with it. Go-busters, just felt directionless, I always got the feeling that it didn't know what sort of story it wanted to tell. Ninnin knows the story it wants to tell, it's just not a great one, and Red's lack of acting chops did not help.

Kyooryuugers had so much energy to it, they knew what kind of story they wanted to tell, and while Daigo was a 'goof off' it came from experience rather than not caring. Though he was a plot focus, when the episode was for someone else he knew to not steal the spot light but to spread the spot light out. Yes he's the only one who got and upgrade and, for some reason, this drives people nuts. But why wouldn't the leader of a group, usually one who has earned the team's trust and shown his reliability, be the one trusted with more power?

I know this thread is bout Ninninger, and yea it's not a good show. But I disagree with anyone who says it's not a good show, because it's a comedy. It's genre wasn't the reason it wasn't well written, it's cause the writer wasn't sure on how to have a team that doesn't revolve around a central character type, and also failed to have a character type the viewers (us at least) want the show to revolve around.
I don't think anyone is saying the show is bad because it's comedic. It's bad because it doesn't really mesh well with all of its parts. This is a case where the sum of the parts is lesser than the whole.

As for Go-Busters, at least it tried to do different things. Ninninger is the opposite of that. It was so safe that it was playing not to lose which is the worst thing you can do for yourself.
KRMonkey wrote:As an aside, it amazes me how rarely the Shuriken Sentai threw any shuriken.
That's probably because that they don't want kids to throw shuriken. Just remember the shuriken in Butters's eye in South Park. They don't want that.
Image

xPrimexTimex
Infinity
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:53 am
Male: Yes

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by xPrimexTimex » Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:55 am

You fix Ninninger by getting a better writer. The very premise of why they're fighting is sooooooo weak. They fight to become the Last Ninja.

HOW ABOUT SAVING THE WORLD?!

Shinkenger did this a whole lot better with Chiaki vs Takeru. Chiaki trains to surpass Takeru, but his main mission is to help defend the world against the Gedoshuu.

Yes, I know they're fighting to save the world but it feels like the whole Last Ninja bit overshadows the feeling of justice and honor that a Sentai warrior should have.

The characters are okay at best and horrible most of the time. Like, why is Nagi even there? Seriously. Him and Fuuka feel invisible at times and have very bland/generic personalities. Yakumo started off cool but then caved and he's half cool half insecure and that's not good at all. Kasumi has a lot of promise and her episodes were the bright spot of this series until they made her lose her confidence. Like really? All to try and build up the worst character I've had the displeasure of watching??

As heroes I don't take the Ninningers seriously at all. I remember watching Go-Onger and while they were quite silly for most (if not all) of the season, at least they had fighting spirit. They wanted to save the world. I don't believe the Ninningers want that and you can blame that solely on the writing.

User avatar
Kuchiri
Team Gaim
Team Gaim
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:04 pm
Male: Yes
Favorite series: Gekiranger
2ndFavoriteSeries: Shinkenger
Dreamy: There are alot.
Favorite Actor?: Alot of this too.
Alignment: Neutral Good

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Kuchiri » Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:47 am

This is one of those seasons where I'm sitting here HOPING that the PR version actually does something great with it. It was a season with a bunch of potential and the last dozen or so episodes actually have been really good. I just feel that the shoddy writing and character arcs from the first twenty episodes killed this series though. I hope PR does something really good with it.

User avatar
Go-On Macaroni
Rising to the Top
Rising to the Top
Posts: 2927
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:18 pm
Male: Yes
Type: INFP Healer

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Go-On Macaroni » Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:55 am

Phoenix512 wrote:I would disagree since he did beat Gabi one on one in the previous episode. He had nothing else to prove at that point but he manage to convince everyone that he had to be there and not just watch them from the back. Also Gabi isn't really a rival since he died so early. True rivals last until near the end of the series.
I'm not sure what you mean here. "Takaharu beat Gabi once so they didn't need to fight again but I want Gabi to last the whole show but Takaharu can't fight him so..."? That sounds utterly terrible.

Thinking more on it.. keeping him around might have come off better compared to just digging his suit out 30+ episodes later, but him not doing anything substantial might have been just as bad.
kangchan wrote:I already checked the information about Producer on Sentai since Shinkenger up to now, there are some interesting points:

-Omori Takahito: Producer of KR Den-O, KR Kiva (co-producer with Takebe Naomi), Goseiger, Kyoryuger, KR Drive.
-Utsunomiya Takaaki: Producer of Gekiranger, Shinkenger, Gokaiger, KR Wizard, ToQGer, Zyuohger
-Takebe Naomi: Producer of KR OOO, Go-Busters, KR Gaim, Ninninger
Might be better off starting Omori's list with Kyoryuger. Anything prior, he'd just be an assistant producer and he wouldn't have much say compared to the head one.
Same with Utsunomiya on Gekiranger.

User avatar
Lunchboxx
Salami Commander
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:58 am
Male: Yes
Favorite series: Garo
2ndFavoriteSeries: All Sentai
Dreamy: To many to list!
Favorite Actor?: To many to list
Favorite Band: Van Canto
Alignment: Lawful Good
My boom: ASIAN GIRLS!
Quote: Elwood: "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses."

Jake: "Hit it."
Location: Jacksonville Florida U.S.A.

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Lunchboxx » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:03 am

[quote="takenoko"

Well they both do the same thing, for the most part. LOL[/quote]

They both spew angry opinions?

Nah but seriously, Ninninger has been a very big letdown, and I hope that Jyuoger is way fucking better.

Also you're not the only one who liked ToQger, I thought it was fun. Not AS fun as Kyouryuger (which is my second favorite season behind Go-Buster in terms of modern sentai), but still a very fun and enjoyable season.
Image

Image Image

User avatar
mholden020
Gabu
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:27 am
Male: Yes
Favorite series: Garo
Favorite Band: Avenged Sevenfold
Quote: "Never think that success is down to your own performance alone. If you start listening only to yourself you take the first step back towards the bottom. The flowers of victory belong in many vases."
-Michael Schumacher
Type: INFJ Counselor

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by mholden020 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:33 am

Go-On Macaroni wrote:
mholden020 wrote:They managed to crush the character at the end of the series when she made a mistake and lost her confidence, something that was rammed home for two straight episodes.
If you mean the Mangetsu fight.. honestly, in hindsight, I don't feel bad for her. Villains should be like that, pushing the heroes to get stronger or just push harder; it's not Takaharu's fault the villains chose to be incompetent and made everything too easy for them.
I don't even remember who the monster was, Mangetsu makes sense, but it was the one where Kasumi got outsmarted and went into a depression. I agree that it should have been done, and it was a fantastic opportunity for character building since it presented an opportunity for her to overcome that depression. (Or, heaven forbid, even a chance for Takaharu to help her get past it.) It just fell flat though and invalidated her character for me, all while paving yet another avenue to make Takaharu important. I can't think of another Sentai series that I've seen where that plot device didn't end in the depressed character overcoming it and becoming awesome again.
Completed Series:
-Kamen Rider: Agito, Ryuki, 555, Blade, Hibiki, Kabuto, Den-O, Kiva, Decade, W, Fourze, OOO, Wizard, Gaim, Drive
-Sentai: Jetman, Dairanger, Deka --> Zyuohger

User avatar
Digifiend
Gabu
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:07 am
Male: Yes
Location: Hull, UK

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Digifiend » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:05 pm

midorininger wrote: -did any of them have jobs? sure the younger had friends .... ONCE!
No. Kasumi was at university, Nagi and Fuuka are still at high school, Takaharu was always doing the ninja training, and Yakumo dropped out of wizarding school in England. Kinji was travelling around hunting the Yokai. Tsumuji should have a job though, but we don't see what it is. It explains why he's absent from some episodes.

User avatar
Phoenix512
Rising to the Top
Rising to the Top
Posts: 6575
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:29 pm

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Phoenix512 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:52 pm

Go-On Macaroni wrote:
Phoenix512 wrote:I would disagree since he did beat Gabi one on one in the previous episode. He had nothing else to prove at that point but he manage to convince everyone that he had to be there and not just watch them from the back. Also Gabi isn't really a rival since he died so early. True rivals last until near the end of the series.
I'm not sure what you mean here. "Takaharu beat Gabi once so they didn't need to fight again but I want Gabi to last the whole show but Takaharu can't fight him so..."? That sounds utterly terrible.
I'm not saying that Takaharu can fight him again especially if Gabi was around for the whole show. My point was that the show was doing something for the other characters but they had to make it about Takaharu in the end and destroying whatever character progression for the other characters in the process. The other example of this was during the Lioh-Oh powerup. In that case, the message was supposed to be Takaharu realizing that the others have their own way of fighting but once again, he ends up winning the fight by himself with the powerup. I think it would have better to do that message in one episode and deal with the powerup in a different episode.
Image

User avatar
PHurricane
The Eyes in the Skies
The Eyes in the Skies
Posts: 1881
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:15 pm
omg are u a girl?: Yes
Favorite series: W/Den-O
2ndFavoriteSeries: Boukenger/Shinkenger

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by PHurricane » Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:58 pm

I commute a significant distance to work, so I’ve had a lot of time to reflect on what exactly went wrong. Unfortunately, since I’m driving that whole time, I never get a chance to write down any flashes of insight I had. I’ll do my best not to rehash territory that’s already been covered, but everyone's been pretty thorough so I'll probably fail at that.

~Takaharu. Sentai is all about the Red Leader character, so even though most people have mentioned this, I have to emphasize that a stronger actor in this role might have moved the series from “painful to watch” to “tolerable” for me. At the end of the day, Takaharu’s character wasn’t written too terribly. He was simply the brash, thick-headed yet unbelievably strong archetype, not that dissimilar to a Kenta (Megaranger) or Sousuke (Go-Onger). Those characters have their irritating moments, but the actors imbued them with enough charm to forgive it. I feel a bit bad for Takaharu's actor, because it did seem like they tried to shift some focus away from him mid-series when they realized he wasn’t doing a great job carrying the role. Unfortunately, certain toy sales/plot points (most noticably Chouzetsu) were tied to Akaninger, so they couldn’t push Takaharu to the background forever. That only worsened the next problem...

~Telling vs. Showing. Takenoko touched on this in the first post in this thread, but I think one of Ninninger’s biggest failings was that we learned more about the characters and plot from what was said about them than seeing the plot or characters evolve in front of us. You shouldn’t learn more about Character A when Characters B and C are having a discussion about Character A than when Character A is on-screen, and if you are, there better be something in Character A’s scenes that back-up what Characters B and C are saying. This is television - we’re watching the show to see events unfold with our own eyes. We heard so much about Takaharu, but there was little effort to back that up on-screen unless it was to show what a goof he was. He wasn’t the only victim of that flaw in the writing, but he’s the most obvious because of his prominence in the series.

~Yakumo. Believe it or not, I think I dislike Yakumo’s character even more than Takaharu. Again, the casting fell on the weaker side of the spectrum. What’s more unforgivable, however, is what a poorly designed hodgepodge of a character he is. He’s a ninja! Who uses magic! With a somewhat strict Japanese mother! But thinks he’s British because he lived in England! And studied under MagiYellow at Diet Hogwarts! And has an obsession with a lawn mower! [Seriously, I am so glad that I was traveling when that lawn mower episode aired. That alone made me want to scream.] Considering Yakumo is the only team member whose family we got to meet, it’s a shame that the character was a mess. His rivalry with Takaharu was dropped for most of the series, only to be revived in the final arc.

That happened so much - some line of dialogue or visual cue that was probably intended to be foreshadowing, but forgotten about until it was the only thing that everyone was concerned about. Foreshadowing cannot exist in a vacuum; you should see it having an effect on the plot/characters before it becomes the focus of an episode. Kinji’s stuff was the closest to being executed well, but even that was dropped for a few episodes (with Kinji showing no signs of strain) until it was too late.

“Hodgepodge” fits the series in general. This series truly fits the old adage that a jack of all trades is master of none. Some of the show’s best moments were when the team acted like ninjas. It looks like the moral of the plot was that the Ninningers are forging their own path, regardless of what tradition dictates, but it defeats the purpose of a having a show about ninjas if they’re only superficially ninjas. That doesn't even begin to touch or how many secondary (or tertiary) themes were dropped just as quickly as they were introduced.

~Villains. Kyuuemon was it. He was okay, and at times the only hope that Ninninger had a long-term plot on the horizon, but a show either needs more than one villain or the audience needs some clue what purpose is motivating your antagonist. ToQger struggled to capture my interest at times, but there was always something going on in the villain camp that kept me wanting to know more. Not so with the Kibaoni clan. It turned out that Kyuuemon did have a master plot that on paper should have been fantastic, but the execution just fell flat.

This doesn’t really have a category, other than bad writing, but did they really think we needed four clip shows? I’m pretty sure it was four, but there were so many episodes that had extended flashback sequences, with some scenes being replayed in multiple episodes, that I may be miscounting.

Ninninger was not terrible and I don’t hate it. I can’t work up the emotion to hate it. I think my apathy for the show is more damning than any hate. I’m not the type to drop a show once I start investing time in it, but I have doubts that I would have finished this show if I hadn’t had to QC it every week. Watching a show like this shouldn’t feel like a chore, but that’s what it became. It’s not that I wish the head writer ill in his career, but I pray he’s never given the reins to plan a series again. Although, from what I said about paper vs. execution, the director probably deserves an equal share of the blame for Ninninger's failures.

User avatar
Lunagel
Bottle Shaker
Posts: 7865
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:09 am
omg are u a girl?: Yes
Favorite series: Magiranger
2ndFavoriteSeries: Gekiranger
Location: Japan

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by Lunagel » Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:17 pm

Digifiend wrote:Tsumuji should have a job though, but we don't see what it is. It explains why he's absent from some episodes
I kinda just assumed he was the ninja house mother

User avatar
VerusMaya II
Humongous
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:50 am
omg are u a girl?: Yes
Favorite series: Ultraman Mebius
2ndFavoriteSeries: Gokaiger, Ryukendo
Dreamy: Q
Favorite Band: Calexico
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
My boom: FFXIV
Quote: veridis quo
Type: INTJ Mastermind
Location: M-78
Contact:

Re: Fixing Ninninger

Post by VerusMaya II » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:33 pm

Wow I didn't realize so many people disliked Go-Bus. I didn't bother keeping up with the forums at the time of its airing so I guess I missed all the discussion on that. I love love love Go-Bus and ToQ :O

Everyone has said what I've wanted to about Ninnin. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Image
we are here to take the blame; to take the taunts and live the shame
we are here to make you feel; it terrifies you, but it's real

Post Reply

Return to “Sentai-Shuriken Sentai Ninninger”