KR Amazons 08 released

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Poll ended at Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:05 pm

☆☆☆☆☆
7
44%
☆☆☆☆
4
25%
☆☆☆
3
19%
☆☆
1
6%
1
6%
 
Total votes: 16
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takenoko
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KR Amazons 08 released

Post by takenoko »

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Previous episode rating: 4.45 (10 votes)

Jesus Christ, what a frustrating episode. Did Kobayashi forget she's not writing an episode for kids, because I feel like she beat the moral into me more than Takai did by that guy.

It's stupid in so many ways. Sure, maybe Takai wouldn't hit the guy with her electric weapons initially, but that wouldn't mean she'd just lay down and take a beating. And when he holds a bar over Takai, I figured he'd use that as leverage to keep Mamoru from attacking. But no, he continues to beat her, and fucking Mamoru does nothing. Dude, you have no more leverage if you're hurting her, do you or even the writer understand how this works?

Just to get away from that, having Haruka let that Amazon go, and it proceeding to eat two people works. It shows that Haruka's naivete and priority of morals over practicality have consequences. He should feel bad because he made an obvious bad decision.

So that's why when we return to the scene at the junkyard, none of it makes any fucking sense. Haruka is about to execute the guy, who tortures and tries to kill Takai/Mamoru. A known serial killer. Keep in mind that they've executed some Amazons for less kills than this guy. And yet, who comes to save him but Jin. Whaaaaat? Jin, if human life is your top priority, you became an Amazon to protect it, do you not understand how letting a serial killer goes against that moral? It's a simple numbers thing, if nothing else. You can't just say "It's because he's human" drop the mic and leave, because the situation is much more complicated than that. That's why this episode felt like it was written for children. It tries to set up a moral gray area, and then does nothing to talk about the complexity. Humans = Good, Monsters = Bad. Fuck this episode.

Although, I did like Nanaha staking out the pest control's building, then Mizuki shows up to check it out as well. Mizuki finally feels like she's doing something interesting, and I did genuinely like the talk between the two women.

Good setup, but bad payoff. They didn't even show the guy tied up or arrested or anything. I think this is a 1/5 for me.

Edit: Oh yeah Yuge Tomohisa is in this. What a wasted role. You didn't even see his face in episode 7.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by Zychotic »

A third rider? I knew it; the series felt like it was heading that way, especially after they said Haruka was Amazon number 3 in a previous episode.

That whole junkyard scene, why didn't they just restrain him from the start and then call the cops? That would have been pretty easy to do. As for it being a whole set-up for Haruka questioning his morality, that I like so I can forgive the slightly bad storytelling for that moment.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by TypicalStandUser »

Too much black and white... Kobayashi, FFS, get your house in order. Episode execution's subpar, storyline has been slowed down, but I like the MOTW's death.

Holy mother of Zod for next episode's preview. Make it work, Kobayashi-sensei!!
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by zeta_gundam »

The junkyard scene with Mamoru and Takai getting bashed up made absolutely no sense. Why can't they just knock the murderer out cold?! Why?! URGH!
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by TypicalStandUser »

zeta_gundam wrote:The junkyard scene with Mamoru and Takai getting bashed up made absolutely no sense. Why can't they just knock the murderer out cold?! Why?! URGH!
If Mamoru attacked the jackass at his current form, the jackass can pretty much shout to authorities that flesh-eating monsters exist, ruining Nozama's masquerade. If Nozomi does it, she'll be reported for domestic violence, then her links with Nozama would then be found, potentially leading to the situation where the people can find out about the monsters.

If KO'ing the jackass was an option, Kobayashi should have included amnesia. Or, the psychotic jackass' claims that a monster and a merc together in his junkyard is nonsense to many people/clinical delusion by professionals.
Last edited by TypicalStandUser on Mon May 23, 2016 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by Zychotic »

TypicalStandUser wrote:
zeta_gundam wrote:The junkyard scene with Mamoru and Takai getting bashed up made absolutely no sense. Why can't they just knock the murderer out cold?! Why?! URGH!
If Mamoru attacked the jackass at his current form, the jackass can pretty much pretty much shout to authorities that flesh-eating monsters exist, ruining Nozama's masquerade. If Nozomi does it, she'll be reported for domestic violence, then her links with Nozama would then be found, potentially leading to the situation where the people can find out about the monsters.

If KO'ing the jackass was an option, Kobayashi should have included amnesia. Or, the psychotic jackass' claims that a monster and a merc together in his junkyard is nonsense to many people/clinical delusion by professionals.
I interpreted this scene differently. Nozomi didn't want Mamoru to attack the human because if he did, then he might get the desire to eat human flesh which would be very bad. As for why she didn't knock him out cold, she was about to, but pulled back because she was wearing armor that had the shock thing on it that was intended to be used on Amazons. If she used it on a human, it's possible that it could kill them. It felt like she made that choice to protect Mamoru and to not murder a human.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by eijiman »

If they play their cards well, this whole humans good, Amazons bad thing will be good. Jin wants to kill Haruka and Mamoru even if they are not bad, meaning he does indeed have that way of thinking. So prettty much Jin is a racist/specist. Kinda reminds me of Gou and the roidmude.

Like I said if they do exploit it well, it will give him some more depth.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by takenoko »

But they don't play their cards well, that's why it's so clumsy. I mean, it doesn't even bear the weight of even the smallest bit of scrutiny. Just following any of the logical paths ethicwise wouldn't bear up that you should save murderers and kill all monsters, even the monsters that happen to look totally human and be helping you out/saving your life and stuff. They took Jin and made him look like an idiot, which is the gravest sin of the episode.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by eijiman »

takenoko wrote:But they don't play their cards well, that's why it's so clumsy. I mean, it doesn't even bear the weight of even the smallest bit of scrutiny. Just following any of the logical paths ethicwise wouldn't bear up that you should save murderers and kill all monsters, even the monsters that happen to look totally human and be helping you out/saving your life and stuff. They took Jin and made him look like an idiot, which is the gravest sin of the episode.
Honestly i dont think they will do it right either, You're right it has no Logic to think that way, but if i were to give an credible explanation, i would say that Jin made the fanatical oath of never letting an Amazon hurt a human, so he will keep it zealously even if it means doing evil. kinda like Rorschach in watchmen.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by Ashki »

That was my impression as well. Jin might have allowed one of the human squad members to attack, but not an Amazon. In addition, had the killer been hit by a pissed off Omega, he could kiss his life goodbye.

I do feel like the squad called it in right before leaving, but wish we'd at least have seen him tied up or get some minor comment next ep to tell us what happened.

Also, kee in mind Jin's other motive was to further demoralise the only other person who can stop him. If I were in his shoes, I'd also want to keep Haruka confused. Omega is the only clear threat to Alpha, and if Haruka ever gets his act together, Jin may well lose the fight. Omega has far too many power moves that he can use at range when enraged, whereas Alpha is purely melee and relies on a cool head to survive.

Before wondering why he didn't attack, remember Mamoru has the mind of a child and Takai is like a mother/bis sister to him. What would happen to that mind if he murders another person, even in self-defense? And I'm sure Takai was out cold most of the time and hasa severe concussion (if not far worse), which kept her from thinking tactially. Speaking of which, I feel as though the extermination squad aren't soldiers, save maybe their overly-calm leader. From the first episode, their fighting has been too disorganised, and while we've seen some endurance after serious injuries, I get the impression none of the team have ever taken a human life. Security guards with guns, that's what they remind me of half the time. All except one, who thankfully happens to be calling the shots and screams war vet every time he talks.

Probably not the most popular opinion, but I've yet to see any mention of military backgrounds or even what they did before the team was formed.

I understand the frustration over this episode, and was also pissed the killer wasn't torn to shreds, but with my understanding of the characters and their motivations it made sense.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by eijiman »

Well, that is something else, even if they are amazons and the hunter team of a big company, i suppose they would still get in deep shit if they somehow killed a human. and yes, i think the Mamoru thing was also for not getting him used to attack humans.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by hinomars19 »

takenoko wrote:But they don't play their cards well, that's why it's so clumsy. I mean, it doesn't even bear the weight of even the smallest bit of scrutiny. Just following any of the logical paths ethicwise wouldn't bear up that you should save murderers and kill all monsters, even the monsters that happen to look totally human and be helping you out/saving your life and stuff. They took Jin and made him look like an idiot, which is the gravest sin of the episode.
Up until now what has given you the impression Jin has ethics?
And his reasoning is actually quite intelligent, if not gravely unpopular. Why should this man be killed for your selfish reason?
Self righteousness is selfish. No 2 ways about it. Don't forget, Jin is very primal, he even keeps, kills and cooks his own chickens. Self righteous morals are no less of a modern societal convenience than the frozen chicken's at the supermarket that allow us to self indulge in meat eating without having to see the ugly slaughter, thus allowing us to live in a 'safe space'. It's the same mentality that allows us to raise and slaughter cattle and fowl for food without a second thought but won't eat cats and dogs. When you look at it, it has no grounding in common sense. It's a selfish decision we as a society have created on our own whim.
As is 'Justice'
These guys are not good and bad. The world is a difficult place to contend with when you do away with 'right and wrong' but I feel that is who Jin is. He was never a hero, it's just up til now his actions have conveniently agreed with our expectations of this, a Kamen Rider show.
And it's been said countless times that the extermination squad only do this for money. There's no money in self indulgently killing a guy because he has already killed someone else. Jin has stated he will kill every Amazon, because they are Amazons. He will protect every human because they are human. We don't know why he thinks this way, but that doesn't make it any less true.

It's ugly, but it's true to who these people have admitted to being this entire time.

I see your point of 'killing a serial killer protects future lives' but it's all still theoretical, and Jin deals with what is cold, hard and in front of his face.

Jin isn't the voice of the audience, nor are the extermination squad-Haruka is, and quite rightly he is the only one acting in a way we all expect given the situation.

The Mamoru/ Nozomi bit was overly dragged out and did defy logic, I admit. I see no reason for Nozomi to not defend herself. And honestly, not having the guys call into the police is weird, and feels like it was trying too hard to make them aloof to 'morality'.

For the record, I do not endorse killing cats and dogs, nor do I sympathise with serial killers. I love my cats, all 7 of them, and love playing with the chickens and pigs at the farm at the zoo. I hate violence towards animals and any innocent or defenseless person. I don't know if I would have killed this man, but I would like to think I'd give him a beat down given the chance, then get him locked up. But I also buy my meat from the freezer, because my love for animals selfishly means I wish to ignore all of them who die for my indulgence (I'm not vegetarian or vegan, I don't feel I could be and am gravely cynical of carnivores pretending to be herbivores)

Hypocritical? Yes. Selfish? Yes. But I recognize this and continue regardless. I am aware of the psychology behind it. Haruka, however, is a naive shut in who thinks the ugliness of the world is non existent, and considers himself a blameless man. Such a thing is not possible, and Jin is doing his best to bang that into him.

Only time will tell what will become of Jin as a character, and whether we find the reasoning behind such a simple, 'racist' and totalitarian mindset. But he is who he is, and his ultimate place in this world (show) will be defined by it.

All my opinion, and I mean no offence. Forgetting my personal views on things, I wanted to try and offer an objective thought on this.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by ViRGE »

eijiman wrote:If they play their cards well, this whole humans good, Amazons bad thing will be good. Jin wants to kill Haruka and Mamoru even if they are not bad, meaning he does indeed have that way of thinking. So prettty much Jin is a racist/specist. Kinda reminds me of Gou and the roidmude.

Like I said if they do exploit it well, it will give him some more depth.
If nothing else, this episode sets up why Jin will ultimately lose to Haruka. Jin does not fight for justice. For all of his confusion, Haruka at least tries to protect the innocent.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by toni2212 »

The overall point of this episode is confusing. Two people should be able to restrain a single human eventhough he's a Zolda, a Worm, a cafe owner and a criminal. Yeah, yeah you can't attack him since he's a human, but at least tie him up so he can't escape or tried to kill you. And I dunno if this is true, but nobody seems to care to drop the criminal to a police station. All of them just stand up and go away like it's a school trip.

Putting aside the fact that Kobayashi's Gray Area writing is still there, I give this episode a 5 just for a simple fact that this episode has a Rider who properly used his motorcycle to finish off an Amazon.
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Re: KR Amazons 08 released

Post by Phoenix512 »

I probably imagine that dropping the criminal to the police would make them begin to investigate the Amazons regardless how much of a chance that they might just ignore the craziness of the story.
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