Gaim comparisons to OOO ending

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Gaim comparisons to OOO ending

Post by Zony11 »

its official this show is turning into kamen rider ooo all over again
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Re: KR Gaim 42 released

Post by butyoumight »

Zony11 wrote:its official this show is turning into kamen rider ooo all over again
I would argue that point very adamantly. While they share the theme of "hero turning into what he's been fighting against all year" (which is a pretty common trope in early Kamen Rider anyway, so...?), the major difference is that Eiji didn't WANT to be turning into a Greeed, no one told him he was going to and he had to figure it out for himself, AND turning into a Greeed didn't actually offer him any particular advantage. Kouta has been told multiple times by different characters that using Kiwami will turn him into an Overlord, and reminding him time and again that he can make the choice NOT to (Eiji didn't have that choice, the Medals flew to him against his will and started changing him against his will), but Kouta kept his resolve to turn into an Overlord if he has to, if he can save everyone else that he has sworn to protect.
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Re: KR Gaim 42 released

Post by kyoichikiller90 »

Koutaaa, Go save your girl... Man.... This episode was very awesome. I couldn't agree if someone said this series would end up like OOO, I mean look at Eiji. He had nothing to do when Murasaki medals possessed him and slowly turned him into a GREEED, he doesn't seek power but power itself seek for him, in Gaim Kouta was seek power to protect even there was a consequences but that's not bad, since the power wasn't shut his consciousness and triggered him into an evil monster or go riots and suddenly killing everyone around him. Things I've been worried about was Kaito, he don't give a shit to somebody who he seem as weak, probably in order to catch up with Kouta he take whatever it take even if he will become an Overlord.
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Re: KR Gaim 42 released

Post by Dengar »

butyoumight wrote:
Zony11 wrote:its official this show is turning into kamen rider ooo all over again
I would argue that point very adamantly. While they share the theme of "hero turning into what he's been fighting against all year" (which is a pretty common trope in early Kamen Rider anyway, so...?), the major difference is that Eiji didn't WANT to be turning into a Greeed, no one told him he was going to and he had to figure it out for himself, AND turning into a Greeed didn't actually offer him any particular advantage. Kouta has been told multiple times by different characters that using Kiwami will turn him into an Overlord, and reminding him time and again that he can make the choice NOT to (Eiji didn't have that choice, the Medals flew to him against his will and started changing him against his will), but Kouta kept his resolve to turn into an Overlord if he has to, if he can save everyone else that he has sworn to protect.
I don't think you can convince these people otherwise. They only see what they expect and want to see.
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Re: KR Gaim 42 released

Post by HyperDrake »

butyoumight wrote:While they share the theme of "hero turning into what he's been fighting against all year" (which is a pretty common trope in early Kamen Rider anyway, so...?), the major difference is that Eiji didn't WANT to be turning into a Greeed, no one told him he was going to and he had to figure it out for himself, AND turning into a Greeed didn't actually offer him any particular advantage. Kouta has been told multiple times by different characters that using Kiwami will turn him into an Overlord, and reminding him time and again that he can make the choice NOT to (Eiji didn't have that choice, the Medals flew to him against his will and started changing him against his will), but Kouta kept his resolve to turn into an Overlord if he has to, if he can save everyone else that he has sworn to protect.
So, basically you thought that Eiji and Kouta were in different situations, didn't you. I'll reply to your points which I've underlined.
- "the major difference is that Eiji didn't WANT to be turning into a Greeed"
The major difference?!! That is actually what makes Eiji and Kouta similar to each other. Neither of them wanted to turn into monsters (Greeed or Inves/Overlord). Why would they want to turn into monsters? So what the hell did they actually really want? They simply wanted the power to save the world and protect people no matter what it costs, including taking the risk of turning themselves into monsters (the side effect of the power). Don't take it as if they wanted to turn into monsters, but they just had to. Some people say that risk always accompany opportunity. You can't separate it.
I believe that both of them, ideally, only wanted the power to save the world WITHOUT the side effect, turning into monsters that is. But, that's impossible because both Kiwami Lock Seed and Purple Core medals have the same side effect of gradually turning them into monsters. But they had to take the risk because mere Kachidoki Lock Seed (in Kouta's case) and Red/Yellow/Grey/Blue/Green Core medals (in Eiji's case) are not enough powers to defeat their respective ultimate enemies and save the world.

- "no one told him he was going to and he had to figure it out for himself",
You should rewatch certain OOO episodes and you'll find that Dr. Maki, Kougami, and Ankh told him that he will be turning into a full fledged Greeed if he didn't give up his purple cores. But he did not give a damn what other people told him to.
Knowing full well of the risk (turning into Greeed), instead of relinquishing the purple core medals to Dr. Maki, he CHOSE to resist and kept the purple core medals inside him because he needed the power. The following pictures are evidence that Eiji had options to choose from: (A) Lose the power to save the world and stay human (not turn into Greeed) or (B) Possess the power to save the world with the consequence of turning into a Greeed

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- "AND turning into a Greeed didn't actually offer him any particular advantage"
You might be right if Eiji only turned into Red/Yellow/Blue/Grey/Green medals-based Greeed. But, by being a Kyouryu Greeed, one with purple core medals' power, you can defeat other colored Greeeds. That's the particular advantage. Remember what Maki did to Gamel? Birth Bros would never have been able to defeat Gamel if not thanks to Maki. The important part is this, no matter what you choose: either OOO Putotyra Combo or Kyouryu Greeed, as long as you have that purple medals power, you can save the world from its nemesis: bad Greeeds.
kyoichikiller90 wrote:he doesn't seek power but power itself seek for him
You're correct in typing that the power seek for Eiji. But you're incorrect in typing that Eiji himself does not seek power. His experience of not being able to save that little girl in Africa and the threat of re-experiencing it again (potentially losing Hina, his brother, Birth bros, and other people he cares about) made him to crave for power. The power to save the world. The power to have longer reach. The power to eliminate current threats to the world: bad Greeeds. The only way to defeat Greeeds is by possessing purple core medals power. He SOUGHT power and when he got it he DID NOT want to lose it.
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Re: KR Gaim 42 released

Post by Go-On Macaroni »

HyperDrake wrote:and Red/Yellow/Grey/Blue/Green Core medals (in Eiji's case) are not enough powers to defeat their respective ultimate enemies and save the world. [..] But, by being a Kyouryu Greeed, one with purple core medals' power, you can defeat other colored Greeeds.
That may be what the final product said but eh.. the purple Greeed stuff I'm pretty sure I had heard was re-written in (Maki was gonna die halfway and Ankh would be the new Head villain but, he got popular so they nixed it). Henceforth, I really disagree that the Greeed are only killable via the purple medals; the original story likely would've had a reason too.
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Re: KR Gaim 42 released

Post by Kuchiri »

dancercotillion wrote:Only the purple medals could defeat another Greeed? Huh, weird! I guess my memories of TaJaDor beating the holy piss out of Dr. Maki in the finale are a fever dream!

Anyway, I thought it was a great twist to explain Sagara's motivations by having him be Helheim incarnate. Now, so much makes sense about that guy, and things become even more chilling when you reflect on his actions throughout the series, first as the DJ commentating on Beat Rider rankings to get these kids willing to fight one another in a repeatedly-escalating arms race, then manipulating Yggdrasil as a weird consultant, to directly interfering and handing out nuggets of plastic and information. The truest adversary this series has is the smarmy middle-aged dude who wears tight shirts and board-shorts and sometimes a carpet.
To be honest, TaJaDor did use all 9 Purple Medals to kill Maki.
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Re: KR Gaim 42 released

Post by HyperDrake »

Go-On Macaroni wrote:That may be what the final product said but eh.. the purple Greeed stuff I'm pretty sure I had heard was re-written in (Maki was gonna die halfway and Ankh would be the new Head villain but, he got popular so they nixed it). Henceforth, I really disagree that the Greeed are only killable via the purple medals; the original story likely would've had a reason too.
That original scenario (where Maki was gonna die halfway and Ankh as the new Head villain) is pretty interesting too.
dancercotillion wrote:Only the purple medals could defeat another Greeed? Huh, weird! I guess my memories of TaJaDor beating the holy piss out of Dr. Maki in the finale are a fever dream!
By using the million cell medals-induced Ground of Rage slash, OOO Putotyra Combo did destroy Maki. Unfortunately both Eiji and Ankh had no idea that Uva (in Medal Vessel form) had the ability to revive others. If Eiji and Ankh knew it, I believe that the both of them would of course have targeted Uva (in Medal Vessel form) first before they went on to finish Maki.
Regarding OOO Tajador Combo destroyed both Maki and Uva (in Medal Vessel form) in one go, here's the explanation:
1. After using the the million cell medals-induced Ground of Rage slash in vain (because Maki got revived thereafter), Eiji could not remain in OOO Putotyra Combo for any longer because that Hissatsu of his was very exhausting. IF he could still remain in Putotyra Combo, he would have continued on destroying Maki and Uva (in Medal Vessel form) in one go using another Ground of Rage slash combined with Greeed Ankh's fire ball.
2. In final episode, instead of using the Magna Blaze (Giga Scan charged with Red Core medals), OOO Tajador Combo defeated Maki and Uva (in Medal Vessel form) with the LOST BLAZE (Giga Scan charged with Purple Core medals) with Ankh's spirit assisting with his fireball. This fact is consistent with the Greeed-can-only-be-defeated-with-Purple-Core-medals'-power theory. As a reminder:
- Ankh (Lost), Kazari, Mezool: defeated by Ground of Rage slash
- Ankh and Gamel: their cores were cracked by Maki's claw, both of them were then doomed to die.
- Dr. Maki: at first, destroyed by million cell medals-induced Ground of Rage slash, got revived and then destroyed for the 2nd time by OOO using Lost Blaze (which is again a Purple Core medals power). Just think of Tajador's Taja Spinner as a pistol and Purple Core medals as its bullets. As a simple analogy: No matter what your pistol is but you can only kill werewolves with silver bullets. As for Ankh's fireball, it served merely as icing on the cake.
dancercotillion wrote:Anyway, I thought it was a great twist to explain Sagara's motivations by having him be Helheim incarnate. Now, so much makes sense about that guy, and things become even more chilling when you reflect on his actions throughout the series, first as the DJ commentating on Beat Rider rankings to get these kids willing to fight one another in a repeatedly-escalating arms race, then manipulating Yggdrasil as a weird consultant, to directly interfering and handing out nuggets of plastic and information. The truest adversary this series has is the smarmy middle-aged dude who wears tight shirts and board-shorts and sometimes a carpet.
I also thought that him as Helheim incarnate is much better than just position him as another Overlord.
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Re: KR Gaim 42 released

Post by Alessar »

Kogashi wrote:Thought it was a workshop of Ryouma's, not some random Hospital that was abandoned.
This. They locked those 2 team Gaim members in and split. No regular corner clinic is going to have the Sengoku Scanner and the Desk of Aweseome Plot Contrivance there.

Also as to the people earlier infected - it could have been as simple as digging the infection out before it spreads. That's how such things worked in classic D&D - you got touched by a green slime you had to amputate IMMEDIATELY or be totally consumed by the fungal infection in minutes. In Kaito's case he has been toughing it out and relying on the driver to sublimate the effects, so he's probably widely infected and bordering on mutation at this point. Even though the cut came from an Overlord's weapon if he could have been treated very promptly it might have been avertable.

Also I really see more parallels with Blade than OOO. I don't mind they're going back to this well, though. There's interesting new aspects to it. (I would actually have liked to see Pomegranate Arms though.) The DJ Sagara twist was really good. It was so "big" I never guessed it. It seems he's the collective intelligence of the forest.
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Re: KR Gaim 42 released

Post by Galada »

I'll just say this: if you guys are jugding the entirety Gaim just by the existence of a few similarities of it's final stretch with OOO's ending, you're missing the point of both shows.
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Re: KR Gaim 42 released

Post by Go-On Macaroni »

HyperDrake wrote:the million cell medals-induced Ground of Rage slash,
the Magna Blaze
the LOST BLAZE
Where the heck are you coming up with these names? :?
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Re: Gaim comparisons to OOO ending

Post by Kogashi »

I imagine in one of the many huge posts going through, point by point, how similar and different Gaim and OOO are, the view I'm about to share has already been expressed but I will say thing all the same..

Personally it feels more similar to the hows and why of Blade than OOO.
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Re: Gaim comparisons to OOO ending

Post by Catastrophe »

The difference for me is that Eiji's transformation seemed kind of half assed. This is explained and Kouta embraces it based on the requirements. To be honest, not having to eat is the only similarity, and I reckon if the food being bland wasn't mentioned in OOOs, I'm sure we wouldn't have picked up on it early in Gaim.
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Re: Gaim comparisons to OOO ending

Post by dancercotillion »

The food thing was weird, though, since every episode for several weeks went out of its way to have a scene with Kouta at Bandou's lunch counter making comments about how he's not hungry or how the food doesn't taste good. They really, really wanted you to know that was an important thing, that Bandou made weak curry. Kouta was losing his appetite for human food.
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Re: Gaim comparisons to OOO ending

Post by Catastrophe »

But the thing is they tried to say 'Oh hey but I've been wearing the driver and using lockseeds so that's why', which we may have believed if the same thing didn't already happen in a previous series.
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