KR Zi-O 04 released

It's pronounced Ji Oh. AKA Kamen Rider Double Decade
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Ratings

Poll ended at Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:51 am

☆☆☆☆☆
2
10%
☆☆☆☆
4
19%
☆☆☆
6
29%
☆☆
3
14%
6
29%
 
Total votes: 21
LiLAsN
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by LiLAsN »

KRMonkey wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:05 am handing us a plot in which our past heroes never became Riders, but then still have them appear in their Rider form fighting the monster whose existence should prevent them from doing exactly that?
The way the story is told is extremely bad. I feel bad that you are completely lost too.

Basically, at the beginning of episode 4, the moment the 'Another Ex-Aid' was defeated, this allowed for the real (2018) Ex-Aid to regain his memory and transform again. But after the 'Another Ex-Aid' was revived, Ex-Aid loses his power and his memory as a Kamen Rider as well.

In this 2018 timeline, Ex-Aid is a doctor that is seeking the boy's father to understand that what the son really needs most is his father. They then find out that for the past 2 years, 'Another Ex-Aid' has been searching for compatible organ donors through the game.
However, Brave explained that if he had met the boy 6 months earlier, he could have done a successful surgery. (This wouldn't be an issue since Zi-O will be going 2 years back to then introduce the boy to Brave thus solving the boy's crisis later on.)
2018 Ex-Aid then hands the watch that was given to him in the past which can be seen towards the end of the episode in the year 2016 to Zi-O in the current year of 2018.

While all this was happening, Geiz was back in the past (2016) talking to the old Brave and Ex-Aid who were still fighting Bugsters back then.
Just like episode 3, that was when the Time Jacker created the 'Another Ex-Aid'.

Zi-O travels back in time to the year 2016 where Geiz and the 2016 Ex-Aid was fighting the 'Another Ex-Aid' . Fighting ensues but slowly, Ex-Aid was losing his powers.
Zi-O finds out the secret to defeating the 'Another Ex-Aid' is by having the same Ex-Aid fight it. Thus, he takes on the role of Ex-Aid through Armor Time.

Another Ex-Aid was defeated but the damage was done like in Build. Ex-Aid is no longer a Kamen Rider. But in order for Zi-O to get the Ex-Aid watch to begin with, Zi-O hands Ex-Aid an empty watch which will in the current timeline of 2018, pass him that watch with the Ex-Aid armor.

In both Build and Ex-Aid's story, the 2018 versions of them do not have their memories until for a split second that they gain their memories back and hands over the watch. Or when the 'Another' version of them is defeated momentarily until they are revived by the Time Jacker that is managing them to be the next Time Overlord.

By the end of the episode, we can see that in 2018, the son was cured thanks to Brave's surgery and the father and son are both leading a happy life.
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by KRMonkey »

I appreciate you taking the time to explain what the hell the production team was thinking. You are clearly a lot more forgiving of this show than I currently am, or at least you've put more effort into understanding the show's I-want-to-use-air-quotes-here internal logic. I think I've been too flat-out offended by the writing to try, or at least I haven't had faith that there's any "there" there.

But okay, if I take all of what you've said above for granted, I still have some serious problems with plot-related parts of the narrative.

There's no clear connection between a human being transformed into an Another Rider and the loss of powers on the part of that year's Rider. I think I'd find it less obtuse if the Another Rider immediately took actions that would clearly prevent the inciting incident for the season in question. If Another Ex-Aid had immediately prevented the creation of gashats or release of the Bugster virus, or if Another Build had prevented the mission that brought Pandora's Box to Earth, I'd be able to accept most of the above explanation. However, Another Build wanders around collecting people as Best Matches for no discernible reason, and Another Ex-Aid spends * a couple of years* collecting organs from randos. So far, there's no clear connection between what the Another Riders do and their impact on the timeline in question. I could write it off to the butterfly effect, but in doing so, I'd be doing the writing staff's work for them.

Another plot mechanic that doesn't yet make sense is that Sougo is handing a blank Ride Watch to the previous Rider in question, yet somehow, when he acquires the Ride Watches later, they've become Armor Time watches for Riders that now never existed. There's no clear reason for the transition. In Decade, by comparison, we saw the moment when Ride Cards got empowered, and there was a clear (if mechanically baffling), story-related reason for it to happen.

I'd have to go back and re-watch the Build finale to get a sense of whether it gave us any context for why Sento suddenly had the Build Ride Watch.

It's entirely possible, maybe even likely, that the how-the-Ride-Watches-get-empowered thing will be explicitly addressed by the series at some point. I assume it will have something to do with the Ride Watches gestating in the Another Riders.

I wonder how much of the plot so far has been dictated by the toy line and its schedule. I'm also curious as to how much creative freedom the head writer has; are they even responsible for the brief series description we get from the initial press releases for each series? (Gaim got me wondering, since most of that one got ejected within a couple of months.) So far in four episodes, they've had to introduce the Driver, Zi-O, Geiz, their individual weapons in their different modes, the Build, Ex-Aid, Ghost, and Cross-Z Ride Watches (and with the exception of the latter, associated forms and final attacks,) the time-machine mecha, and the Faiz Phone. I've seen the toy release timeline, it's not going to slow down in the foreseeable future. As much as I want to complain that I could write a more coherent plot, I wonder how true that would actually be given the above list of constraints. Heck, I forgot the other constraint: work in time-travel cameos. That's a lot.

Let's see if episode five will give me some positive things to say about the show. It's got to happen sometime, right?
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by takenoko »

I got the impression that we might get some explanation for Build's Ride Watch in the summer movie?
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by LiLAsN »

takenoko wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:07 pm I got the impression that we might get some explanation for Build's Ride Watch in the summer movie?
What do you mean? The reason why Build had the Ride watch in the future where they did not have their memories until for a split second is because of what happened at the end of episode 2 where, like the memories that returned to Build, he remembered receiving the Ride watch from Zi-O in the past. And just nice, towards the end of the episode in the year 2016 where Build has lost his powers and memories, Zi-O hands over the Ride watch as so. Resulting in the 2018 Build to be able to pass it to Zi-O in the first place.

Messing with a time storyline can get really convoluted.

The timelines are altered without showing the entire world changing but it is literally like Build's end where no one has any knowledge of a Kamen Rider. So the main riders lead their life as they are supposed to without the Kamen Rider story affecting their lives.
Last edited by LiLAsN on Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by Lunagel »

LiLAsN wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:32 pm it makes sense that the Ride watch came into existence out of nowhere
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by LiLAsN »

Lunagel wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:38 pm
LiLAsN wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:32 pm it makes sense that the Ride watch came into existence out of nowhere
Image
Oh wait! I was changing my reasoning since I remembered episode 2 of Zi-O while you were responding. The last episode of Build was a cameo but nothing more.

Watch episode 2 when 2018 Build gains a memory of the past (2016) where he saw the Armor time of Build (that will happen later in the episode in 2016) and knew that he had to give the watch to Zi-O to make it happen.

Thus the cycle is complete since Zi-O hands the empty Ride watch to Build in 2016 to allow 2018 Build to return a cultivated Build Ride watch then.
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by Strykor »

Why do I get the feeling they're trying to make a Kamen Rider version of Supernatural, what with all the time traveling, reality changes and dimensional shifts? (Everyone say it with me now, DE-CA-DOOOOO!!!!!)
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by Catastrophe »

Trying to explain time travel bullshit in Rider is pointless. Den-O did it best, and even then had some dumb shit in it.
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by dancercotillion »

Time travel in this series simply serves the stories they want to tell, that's it. They're just not all that into telling stories like "what's going on with Agito 19 years later?" like how the Sentai callbacks tend to be. There's nothing more to the time travel stuff than probably a quick couple bullet points on a board in the writers room laying out the general rules, with an additional bullet point saying "tell a fun story :)"

It's going to get odd when they start really rolling back through the timeline and have to encounter somehow modern versions of dead people, or people from unhappened realities, or just Kenzaki avoiding the end of the world. Will we have a fun scene of Sougo and Geiz digging up graves in the rain?!
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by takenoko »

I look forward to when they get around to the bullet point "tell a fun story".
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Re: KR Zi-O 04 released

Post by Catastrophe »

I was going to make the same joke.
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