Dragon Knight in America

[KickHopper]

You missed a major major point to my argument. American organizations WILL NOT LET a show like Ryuki with it's background story of killing and man-eating be shown to American children. You and I both may feel that kids can handle it, but unfortunately it's the dumb clucks who have the power who don't know jack. As I said in my argument, a 100% literal adaptation of Ryuki could only be marketed to an audience 13+ or 16+ by the guidelines set in place. I'm all for a literal adaptation, but I'm wise enough to know that it is incredibly unlikely to happen.

[CrimsonJoker]

More likely than the suggestion of Garo from above.

[Granis]

Hey there, I'm a new member here, I sort of got into this whole Toku thing thanks to Dragon Knight, as in, I havent really watched any other shows other than localized stuff like Power Rangers (I'll admit I didn't watch PR during the Haim Saban days, though I did watched the first US Masked Rider show.....oh god.)

I'm just incredibly upset that KRDK got canned just 2 episodes from it's finale! I mean, what the hell, did they WANT to make their fanbase upset? and really, CW4kids basically made no effort to advertise the show, the toys, or anything like that, and they STILL want to can it for ratings? Are they mad? it had two freaking episodes to go! and I have been really liking the show's plot. now, I've never watched any of the source material, or any japanese toku show before in it's original format. but KRDK just felt like such a progressive foot forward compared to Power Rangers. and now I'll never know how it ends, or see the directors localize more Rider for us. (I heard originally they wanted to localize Blade, and Blade looks cool judging from the clips I've seen on youtube?)

I guess now I'll have to look into source material since execs want to kill anything that isn't a licence to print money like MMPR was. did KRDK go over kid's heads, do you guys feel? because it seemed to at the very least, be aimed at a Buffy/Angel aged crowd. it's just way more serious and complex than Power Rangers ever was.

With Power Rangers it was just Rita Repulsa/Lord Zedd/King Mondo/ whoever send MotW to Angel Grove, Power rangers doing mundane school teen drama task, monster attacks, power rangers fight monster, power rangers go back to mundane school task. end of episode.

Dragon Knight was just, so much more than that. General Xaviaxx was a lot more clever than your average Power Ranger villain. he couldn't just throw MotW at a problem and hopes it works. he actually had to manipulate people to fight for him as riders with the advent decks he stole. That's actually quite a progressive plot for a kid's TV program. granted, no better than something like Buffy or Angel (or Digimon or other childrens anime for that matter.) but still, it's a pretty big step from power rangers.

I'm just curious what I should watch next now that it seems that shows like these probably won't be given a chance to be localized now. I had given thought to checking out some of the source material, but I don't know what to start with. I thought I might as well watch Ryuki first, but I'm nervous it will be too drastically different than it's US counterpart. not only that, but there's ton of great-looking heisei rider shows, and it's hard to tell which ones will be for me.

I know this is a huge post, but hello all and thanks for reading.

[KrimzonKaiser]

Hey there, I'm a new member here.

Welcome to TV-N!

Don't be afraid to dive into any available Rider show you see here. For a better sense of progression, watch the already fully-done series that have been uploaded in their chronological order (Ryuki, Faiz, Blade, Hibiki, Kabuto, Den-O, Kiva, etc.). Some you'll like, some you won't like, but it's Kamen Rider. And I think that's what counts.

[AkuTenshiiZero]

My personal reccomendation is Kabuto. It's where I started with Kamen Rider (Though my first non-Americanized Toku was Gekiranger). I've used Kabuto to introduce my friends to Kamen Rider, and they seemed to get hooked pretty easily from there.

[Granis]

Thanks, I think I might try to watch Ryuki first. I certainly hope I'm not the only Dragon Knight refugee. Though I understand the source material is still way different. (even for all the progressive foot forward Dragon Knight was, bless it's heart.)

[Jemusu]

Hi Granis,

I sort of know what you mean. Not that I'm a Dragon Knight refugee, not seen a single episode of DK and have been watching toku for about 3 years. However your Buffy/Angel comparison struck a chord to me since I gave up on Power Rangers half way through Zeo (completely unaware that Sentai existed) because it wasn't really growing with me and found what I was looking for in Buffy.

After a few years watching Sentai shows I only caught Kamen Rider with Decade - which I don't reccomend as a place to start because of all the references to previous shows - since then I've seen all if Kiva, half of Den-O, and am following the DVD subs of Faiz as they go. Once I'm done with Den-O I'm planning on going for Ryuki. For you I'd imagine that Ryuki would be a good starting place.

[Granis]

I've actually sat down and watched the first 3 or so episodes of Ryuki. yes indeed, it's very different from it's american counterpart. While Dragon Knight, I feel, made more sense in it's first episodes, this was mostly due to being more clear-cut good guys and bad guys, where with the scource material, it seems like it's vague on purpose to get you to watch more. now I don't mind that, in fact I do think the whole Highlander-style stuff with "THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE RIDER." is actually rather interesting, I can definitly see the DK Directors had their work cut out for them. being asked to localise a rather bleak show like this for american kids must have been hard. I mean, it seems the only reason it was picked was because of the cards, the "pokeymans" (the Contract Beasts) and the high Rider count. And I infer from Knight's jerk behavior towards Ryuki, that all the Rider hate each other in this and are "competing" in some sort of game. where in Dragon Knight, either you fought for Ventara, or you were working for Xaviaxx, which, while making things easier to understand early on, but the scource material is clearly meant to be bleak and serious, as far as I can tell.

[D_B]

Apologies for my slow responses this week, been all too busy with nonsense happening for the holidays.
Welcome Granis!

You missed a major major point to my argument. American organizations WILL NOT LET a show like Ryuki with it's background story of killing and man-eating be shown to American children. You and I both may feel that kids can handle it, but unfortunately it's the dumb clucks who have the power who don't know jack. As I said in my argument, a 100% literal adaptation of Ryuki could only be marketed to an audience 13+ or 16+ by the guidelines set in place. I'm all for a literal adaptation, but I'm wise enough to know that it is incredibly unlikely to happen.

I have to strongly disagree with you on this "major point" as well, and I did not miss it, I dismissed it.
If Square released a game that sold well in Japan that they knew would need a specific rating to be accepted in America, they would either find a way to change it as little as possible to get around a rating they wanted to avoid (IE: Void Advent in KR:DR) or they would decide it was worth it for the sake of accuracy to take the higher rating. That's something to consider when you weigh options, rather than using it as an excuse to radically redesign something that worked in it's original format into something untested and unproven.

I cannot find *ANY* actual Nielsen rating information by demographic on Dragon Knight at all, but I have strong suspicion that the bulk of it's audience was in the 13+ crowd already. Similarly, I would be inclined to point at the likes of Naruto, that contains some of the most widespread killing of anything I have ever seen Cartoon Network even touch. The show was designed for a teenage audience, translated and aired in America for that same teen audience, and saw great levels of success for quite awhile. Almost every major fight in that series has a human being die along the way or at the resolution, and it airs in America translated and mostly accurate to it's roots (aside from the wretched dubbing).

Just something else to think about.

And again, I am not looking for a flame war, if you enjoyed Dragon knight then I am truly sorry they will not even air the final episodes. As a Joss Whedon fan, I had fears the same would happen to me (yet again) with Dollhouse, and it's a terrible feeling. Investing time from your life to enjoy a show only to have it yanked out from under you without resolution sucks. I just wish more thought had gone into this Kamen Rider for the long haul, instead of it turning into yet another American company looking for a way to turn a profit on "localizing" a Japanese series... somewhat "roughly".

[kokowaks]

i don't really think the guys who made KRDR just wanted to do it for money... i feel that they also want to introduce kamen rider to the world by creating this show... and by far i think the way they made the show is the farthest we can have being a toku... im happy that they didn't made it into just a childish power ranger show... they expanded to whole power ranger formula to make it as more straight-forward show they can have... this is probably the reason why this show got axed... presenting a show with guys in tights and helmets to adults(i mean guys who doesn't bother to download all subtitled shows) wouldn't go to far... the public would probably just turn away from this...

[Aberration]

4Kids has posted the rest of the series online:

Episode 37: The Enemy Within

Episode 38: For Ventara And Earth (part 1)

Episode 39: For Ventara And Earth (part 2)

Episode 40: A Dragon's Tale

[Aoiblue]

Yup, watched the last 4 episodes today =D

[victorstillwater]

Awww nuts... It won't play for me. Is it because I don't live in America?

[kokowaks]

its nice to see that the toku community grew bigger here thanks to KRDR's introduction...

[Skiks]

Am I the only one that found Ryuga and Femme fighting together kinda neat? That and Onyx + Dragon Knight teaming up.