Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Ashki »

faizinmotion wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:38 pm Also, another idea. I think it would be cool if we had an extra set of staff members who understand Japanese also provide scripts of episodes of past Super Sentai/Kamen Rider series for people like me that is currently learning Japanese.
If fansubbing is anything like transhacking, the person doing the translation will actually have a script on-hand. When I was a transhacker, I'd rip the script directly from a ROM image, translate it, then reinsert it back into the ROM (or make it available as a separate patch). Sometimes those scripts were fairly straightforward, but more than one game I've worked on (I did mostly NES) used what's known as a dictionary file which required new fonts and such, and had to be edited directly inside the ROM file.

From my understanding, fansubbing begins with someone transcribing all of the speech, likely along with the time points for later timing. Then either they or another person translates all of the text to be reinserted. In the case of stylized subtitles (different fonts/colours to show who's talking), maybe they add instructions to the script or directly input those visual quirks. Then the SRT is created using the finished script.


(How far off am I?)


Considering a script is definitely involved, it would be pretty easy to release just the script or (what would be cooler) is a script with alternating lines being the English translation so we could study how words and phrases interact. The only downside is that the translators always take some liberties to make the dialogue "more floral", such as saying "I'm going to the store" instead of a direct translation like "store going". But I don't think that hurts anything once you start getting the hang of Japanese grammar and sentence structure.
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Lunagel »

Ashki wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:54 pm (How far off am I?)
Quite. Basic flow goes: timer manually times all dialogue lines to a script (if there is a transcript available, this may be adjusted instead, but this is sometimes more work than starting fresh), translator then translates, typesetter finds the lines that require special fonts/effects and changes lines to those styles/effects. File is then encoded for qc, looked over, changes made, then encoded for a release.
Ashki wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:54 pm The only downside is that the translators always take some liberties to make the dialogue "more floral", such as saying "I'm going to the store" instead of a direct translation like "store going". But I don't think that hurts anything once you start getting the hang of Japanese grammar and sentence structure.
At the risk of going on a rant, that is not "more floral". I will take your example of お店行ってる (omise itteru) and break it down. On the surface, it is お店(store) plus the transitive verb 行ってる (subject is going). So while the meaning is clear, the important bit you're forgetting is to make it sound natural. This is the most important and occasionally most difficult part of translating. It doesn't matter how accurate you are if the dialogue sounds like google translate.

I'm gonna give you my most "floral" bit of translation: In KR Ghost, the Eyecons were based on famous people from history. The Japanese name for these people was 英雄. Now, literally translated, this is "hero" or "great person", but the people ranged from Nobunaga to Newton to Tutankhamun to Houdini. Great people, yes, but "heroes" is a stretch. It took a lot of searching around before I hit on "luminary", which was great cause it also harked back to the "life burning bright" line they kept throwing around. A bit floral? Yes. Fit the context better? Oh yeah. More natural than shoving "hero" in? Definitely.

More recent memory: In Saber 33, Kento mentions the 最悪の未来 (saiaku no mirai). 最悪 (worst, worst case) の (particle nominalizing the adjective in this case) 未来 (future). Literally, "worst-case future". However, someone in qc (pardon, I forget who it was) gave the excellent suggestion of "darkest timeline". This is particularly brilliant because it not only plants the idea that while there are many scenarios, this is the one that is the most horrible, but also gives way more ambiance and sounds much more natural.

tl;dr: direct translation will only take you so far, skillful use of the vernacular and matching translation to context is far more important.
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Caitanya Vallabha »

I'm so very sad about this whole situation because not only TV Nihon is the best place for current releases, it also has the best catalogue. You guys deliver the best subs and the best releases and I was watching a lot of older shows from the list, and now... Oh man, I wish I had them all downloaded. If anyone has access to some direct links, please send me a DM, I would appreciate it so much. And I'm sorry if I'm not suppose to ask for this, I don't want anydoby having legal problems or anything, I'm just kinda desperate
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Ashki »

Lunagel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:29 pm
Ashki wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:54 pm (How far off am I?)
Quite.

*snip*

At the risk of going on a rant...
I figured it would be somewhat different since in transhacking we have direct access to all of the dialogue, but that's a LOT more complicated. No wonder so few shows are subbed by a single person.

And as for the rant, I used a poor example, but it was worth it for the behind-the-scenes stuff. It always fascinates me when you choose a specific term or spelling and explain it on the main page, so I'm quite grateful to get these additional examples.
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Ashki »

Caitanya Vallabha wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:47 pm I'm so very sad about this whole situation because not only TV Nihon is the best place for current releases, it also has the best catalogue. You guys deliver the best subs and the best releases and I was watching a lot of older shows from the list, and now... Oh man, I wish I had them all downloaded. If anyone has access to some direct links, please send me a DM, I would appreciate it so much. And I'm sorry if I'm not suppose to ask for this, I don't want anydoby having legal problems or anything, I'm just kinda desperate
You can easily grab a lot of the stuff if you just look around, although some officially licensed stuff like Ultraman Nexus is pretty hard to find these days. I won't say just where, but a couple great resources have been mentioned in this thread more than once.
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by MisterDo1984 »

This sucks. But, I'm not going to pretend that downloading copyrighted material is anything other than illegal in North America. No matter what country it comes from. We all know what we are doing by downloading these fan subs. The best thing about groups like this though, is that the major Japanese companies see that there is an audience outside of Japan for these shows, so they start to license them out here. A few years ago it would have been just a dream to even imagine that shows like GARO, and Ultraman, and Kamen Rider, and Super Sentai would be available for us to purchase in a store, or stream legally online. And, now we have that reality. Shout Factory may have lost the license to the newer seasons of Super Sentai, but they did pick up the license to Kamen Rider, and based on the sales of the upcoming Zero-One box set, we may see a lot of the other seasons that TV-NIHON fansubbed get official releases. I'm hoping that TV-N can pull a CrunchyRoll and go legitimate. CrunchyRoll also started off as a fan group that streamed fansubbed Anime that they didn't have the rights to. And, now they are owned by Funimation. The best case scenario is that TV-Nihon gets bought up by Toei, and does official subtitles for them on the American releases of their shows and movies.
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Tokyo »

MisterDo1984 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:01 am This sucks. But, I'm not going to pretend that downloading copyrighted material is anything other than illegal in North America. No matter what country it comes from. We all know what we are doing by downloading these fan subs. The best thing about groups like this though, is that the major Japanese companies see that there is an audience outside of Japan for these shows, so they start to license them out here. A few years ago it would have been just a dream to even imagine that shows like GARO, and Ultraman, and Kamen Rider, and Super Sentai would be available for us to purchase in a store, or stream legally online. And, now we have that reality. Shout Factory may have lost the license to the newer seasons of Super Sentai, but they did pick up the license to Kamen Rider, and based on the sales of the upcoming Zero-One box set, we may see a lot of the other seasons that TV-NIHON fansubbed get official releases. I'm hoping that TV-N can pull a CrunchyRoll and go legitimate. CrunchyRoll also started off as a fan group that streamed fansubbed Anime that they didn't have the rights to. And, now they are owned by Funimation. The best case scenario is that TV-Nihon gets bought up by Toei, and does official subtitles for them on the American releases of their shows and movies.
That'd be cool. Even though I have to admit I like the underground scenario of illegal fansubbing. It just make me fell more like part of a community. Honestly, I think things will go back to normal earlier than we anticipate.
What I would be happy to pay for, however, is a REAL and HIGH-QUALITY TOKUSATSU-ONLY streaming service. It is about time that producers understand that toku is a very niched field. Putting just a handful of shows on Netflix won't get much traction, because tokusatsu fans will not pay netflix just to watch 3 or 4 shows. AND, they will want to watch more than that, so they'll go to piracy either way.
With a good, high-quality and fair priced streaming specialized in Tokusatsu, with every single SS/KR out there, I guess that would get some traction. I know I would be happy to pay for it. Apparently Toei Tokusatsu Fan Club is just that. But that is not available in the west. ¬¬
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Qayyim »

Sorry to ask but is the torrents of Kamen Riders & Super Sentai gone forever/permanent or just temporarily and will it be return back ?
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Ashki »

Qayyim wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 10:29 am Sorry to ask but is the torrents of Kamen Riders & Super Sentai gone forever/permanent or just temporarily and will it be return back ?
Unknown at this point. They may be permanently removed from this site. They may be fully restored. Or they may come back in another form, such as SRT files. We really won't know the answer for a couple weeks or so.
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Mikadius »

Lunagel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:29 pm I'm gonna give you my most "floral" bit of translation: In KR Ghost, the Eyecons were based on famous people from history. The Japanese name for these people was 英雄. Now, literally translated, this is "hero" or "great person", but the people ranged from Nobunaga to Newton to Tutankhamun to Houdini. Great people, yes, but "heroes" is a stretch. It took a lot of searching around before I hit on "luminary", which was great cause it also harked back to the "life burning bright" line they kept throwing around.
That is actually quite brilliant!
Do any of you guys do blogposts explaining other neat details and hard-to-translate phrases you encounter in the process?
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Frozen Gargantua »

Ashki wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:52 pm You can easily grab a lot of the stuff if you just look around, although some officially licensed stuff like Ultraman Nexus is pretty hard to find these days. I won't say just where, but a couple great resources have been mentioned in this thread more than once.
I'm fairly certain Nexus is officially subtitled on Crunchyroll, alongside Ginga, Gaia, Geed, Orb, X and I believe possibly R/B. I will admit, the subs aren't up to the standard TV-Nihon has gotten me used to, but they are there and official (at least last I checked).
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Lunagel »

Mikadius wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:49 pm
Lunagel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:29 pm I'm gonna give you my most "floral" bit of translation: In KR Ghost, the Eyecons were based on famous people from history. The Japanese name for these people was 英雄. Now, literally translated, this is "hero" or "great person", but the people ranged from Nobunaga to Newton to Tutankhamun to Houdini. Great people, yes, but "heroes" is a stretch. It took a lot of searching around before I hit on "luminary", which was great cause it also harked back to the "life burning bright" line they kept throwing around.
That is actually quite brilliant!
Do any of you guys do blogposts explaining other neat details and hard-to-translate phrases you encounter in the process?
Release threads we might mention a term or phrase, but I'm afraid takenoko and I are a bit too lazy to bother blogging about it lol

I know there are some translators on Twitter that do go into the nuance of translating so maybe look around for them?
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Sonicguy001 »

I had to do research but, i was wondering if this whole 'Toei Copyright' thing will affect sub projects other than Rider and Sentai? like the redo of PGSM for instance
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by msf232 »

Sonicguy001 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 4:35 am I had to do research but, i was wondering if this whole 'Toei Copyright' thing will affect sub projects other than Rider and Sentai? like the redo of PGSM for instance
Apparently not
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Re: Why the Rider and Sentai torrents are gone

Post by Ashki »

Sonicguy001 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 4:35 am I had to do research but, i was wondering if this whole 'Toei Copyright' thing will affect sub projects other than Rider and Sentai? like the redo of PGSM for instance
That's one of th4e things that made me so suspicious of the letter. There's absolutely no mention of any other series/franchises and the two names aren't even named properly. A real C&D would have listed all properties, not just two of the popular ones. And with the new season of Sailor Moon finally coming out, you would think that would be a series TOEI would want to market.

In an actual C&D, the only actions you are being legally obligated to stop are those which have been specified. The email TVN received is vague at best and the wording is such that it practically invalidates itself. But even if this email somehow was from some pencil pusher working for TOEI, the fact that it didn't go through their legal department means it (intentionally or unintentionally) greenlit the subbing of other TOEI holdings.

IF (and that's a huge "if") someone from TOEI actually responds, we'll possibly have more clarity, but I can pretty much guarantee TVN will get no response from the person who sent the initial email.
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