KR Gotchard 17 thread

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Poll ended at Sun Jan 21, 2024 5:32 pm

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KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by takenoko »

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Ratings for last episode: 4.43 of 5 stars (7 votes)

Oh great another Kamen Rider enemy obsessed with puppets. A rubic cube with only one color? What a dumb cheater

Hey this op is full of spoilers

I really wonder how they're going to align Gotchard with the much cooler Gotchard that they've presented us with

What the heck happened? Is this a panicked response from Toei, realizing Gotchard isn't grabbing the audience the way Geats did? You can feel the weighty executive hand pushing the current toward a new trajectory, do you not? We even have a new opening to lend credance to this

Hey Hou's mom is still here

Where's Valvarash? Some random stadium?

Man, Gotchard didn't even save one of those guys. He had four chances too

Hmmm, looks like Flaming Cheetos card collection isn't complete. It's quite full, but there's obvious gaps at the bottom

Flaming dehenshined but only his cape disapepared? Oh, that's his catchphrase. Toei and it's catchphrases makes me so sad

Again, where are Professor Kyouka and Wrench? Is this the an alchemy building? Toei: "People think Wrench is boring since we've gvie him more catchphrases than a personality, let's give him a hot mom to compensate"

Yes, Professor Kyouka. Use that wrench

Fruit cocktail and some lettuce looking leaves? Doesn't seem appealing to me

Rinne can't use alchemy, but she can use a card. So using a card isn't alchemy?

The Malgam's left arm is weird and blue

Okay, I got a big laugh out of seeing the sisters dressed up in the academy uniforms

Okay, gambit paying off so far. New year, I'm intrigued with this new direction for Gotchard. They still need to work harder on developing Takara and Rinne as characters and actors, but this is fun so farf
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by Connie_Edogawa »

takenoko wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:32 pm Hey this op is full of spoilers
that was my first thought, too. Rinne being a Rider is one thing, since the crossover movie is quite clearly canon, and she got her powers there, so safe presumption a large enough chunk of the intended audience already knew, but Spanner getting a Rider form, while to be expected from knockoff Chase, isn't in the show yet. it IS spoiled on the box for the toy for the little widget Flaming Hot Gotcheetos has on his belt, which already came out in stores before the new year, but that's just a toy.

also, weird that that toy gets released before either of the people who use is actually use it in show, and it spoils both of them, but the toy for the sword/bow wasn't released until weeks after it got used because it had Needle Hawk on the box, as well as GoldMechanica since it had the Mechanichani card.
Hmmm, looks like Flaming Cheetos card collection isn't complete. It's quite full, but there's obvious gaps at the bottom
no, the collection's fine. we can't necessarily see if he's got the final two categories of Cosmic and Fantasy stuff, but if you note the colors of the cards, each row is a category, and it's organized bottom up, so the bottom row is category one, Insects, then Jobs, then Vehicles, etc.

since the cards are organized with the level 10s on the left, that means the ones are on the far right. the missing holes? Insect 1 and Vehicles 7 and 9, aka Hopper1, GoldDash, and Steamliner respectively. two of which are in use for his form and the other is right behind him. further evidence is the card that moves out of the collection is in position for Vehicle 2, Skebows, the one he uses for the attack.
Flaming dehenshined but only his cape disapepared?
he only took off the widget, not the whole belt. a whole-ass powerup and it only adds a cape in place of the scarf. given what we saw in the preview for next week, I wonder if it works differently for him because he's using different Chemy cards with flame decals to look cooler.
Rinne can't use alchemy, but she can use a card. So using a card isn't alchemy?
the cards contain creatures made by alchemy, but I suppose since the alchemy is already done that doesn't count? like, using a piece of technology with computer bits in it doesn't count as you using a soldering iron.
The Malgam's left arm is weird and blue
seemed like water powers? probably because it's using the chemy based on the moon, so either because of the "Sea of ____" locations on the moon or because it controls the tides?
Okay, I got a big laugh out of seeing the sisters dressed up in the academy uniforms
I just stared at my paused video for a few moments, gesturing and making confused noises.

only watched this raw so far, so I don't know if that thing Geryon used to make the Malgam was a homuculus or not, but Atropos referred to those as their older brothers, right? implying they're all things Geryon made. given that, guessing Minato was also made by him as a sleeper agent, explaining why he turned.
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by TokuGeek1999 »

The new opening is fire!
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by Connie_Edogawa »

OH! just remembered a thought I had and forgot to mention in my previous comment:
speculation based partly on stuff from the next episode preview
given Flamin' Hot Gotcheetos keeps talking about the future, seems like he knows more about what's going on, next episode apparently has Houtarou time travel, and there was a notable pause after he said "Kudou" before saying "Rinne", I'm guessing it's Houtarou from the future. possibly a bad future where everything went wrong, and he's come back to fix stuff.
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by takenoko »

>since the cards are organized with the level 10s on the left, that means the ones are on the far right. the missing holes? Insect 1 and Vehicles 7 and 9, aka Hopper1, GoldDash, and Steamliner respectively. two of which are in use for his form and the other is right behind him. further evidence is the card that moves out of the collection is in position for Vehicle 2, Skebows, the one he uses for the attack.

Ah, thanks for the correction! Guess I won't be passing any Sherlock-level observation tests

>he only took off the widget, not the whole belt. a whole-ass powerup and it only adds a cape in place of the scarf. given what we saw in the preview for next week, I wonder if it works differently for him because he's using different Chemy cards with flame decals to look cooler.

It just kind of seems weird that he did a thingy just to take his cape off though?

>the cards contain creatures made by alchemy, but I suppose since the alchemy is already done that doesn't count? like, using a piece of technology with computer bits in it doesn't count as you using a soldering iron.

Sure, but the implications are weird to me. So far it seemed like you could only use Chemys if you were an alchemist or if you were the chosen protagonist like Houtarou (who has a secret past?) But if alchemy powers aren't needed, then any joe on the street can pick up the Chemy Riser and fire it like a gun. That's a little less magical in terms of world building? It's like how in some stories only Jedi can use lightsabers and others, anyone can pick one up and use it

>seemed like water powers? probably because it's using the chemy based on the moon, so either because of the "Sea of ____" locations on the moon or because it controls the tides?

Maybe? I've gotta admit I don't always know what the designs and card themes are supposed to be. It took me a bit to realize this Malgam was moon themed

>only watched this raw so far, so I don't know if that thing Geryon used to make the Malgam was a homuculus or not, but Atropos referred to those as their older brothers, right? implying they're all things Geryon made

That does seem to be the implication. Hey, maybe I can get away with calling them Triplets if they aren't actually different ages

>given that, guessing Minato was also made by him as a sleeper agent, explaining why he turned.

That's an interesting theory. Let's see if that bears fruit

Read the spoiler theory and yeah, I'm on the same lines. It's a bit of an obvious guess, but I can't imagine any other twist being satisfying though
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by Androzani84 »

takenoko wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:32 pm < Previous
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What the heck happened? Is this a panicked response from Toei, realizing Gotchard isn't grabbing the audience the way Geats did? You can feel the weighty executive hand pushing the current toward a new trajectory, do you not? We even have a new opening to lend credance to this
Actually, according to the two most recent production blogs, all of this was planned from the start. Daybrake Gotchard was made with zero input from Bandai and the new OP was intended to freshen the show up for the new year, in anticipation of the new Sentai in two months.

Also, it says that Minato’s turn was foreshadowed by him being the only character with zero character development among the heroes, which I find to be too funny to complain about.
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

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Connie_Edogawa wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:09 pm that was my first thought, too. Rinne being a Rider is one thing, since the crossover movie is quite clearly canon, and she got her powers there, so safe presumption a large enough chunk of the intended audience already knew, but Spanner getting a Rider form, while to be expected from knockoff Chase, isn't in the show yet. it IS spoiled on the box for the toy for the little widget Flaming Hot Gotcheetos has on his belt, which already came out in stores before the new year, but that's just a toy.

also, weird that that toy gets released before either of the people who use is actually use it in show, and it spoils both of them, but the toy for the sword/bow wasn't released until weeks after it got used because it had Needle Hawk on the box, as well as GoldMechanica since it had the Mechanichani card.
Rinne being a Rider was confirmed in the last episode too, when she references that she's a Rider now thanks to the movie, but I guess her powers have a cooldown or something? I dunno, not being in Japan, I've not watched it yet. I do like when the movie stuff is actually relevant to the show, it just stings a bit harder for those of us who have to wait months to see it.

I guess the toy is out because it's in the movie? Although in recent years I know movie stuff has often been consigned to Premium Bandai, but I guess since it's gonna be show relevant they thought "fuck it" and got it out now? I can't think of any other major examples of toys coming out way early. I know when ISIS made them delay Ninninger's debut it made it so all the toys came out a week early.
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by Mxylv »

I hadn't seen much potential to the show at first, but I really like how it's shaping up now. Granted, Minato's turn transforms the series into a more general youth-vs-adults/society format, but if it can keep up the momentum this episode set, I'm willing to take that trade off. I also like how we're finally seeing more of Spanner past his catchphrase and some pride issues. Adding a mother figure is also an excellent way to link his actions with Ichinose's, whether it's in contrasting their reluctance vs. readiness to accept support or just acknowledging that the two are closer than Spanner would like to admit.
Connie_Edogawa wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:09 pm
takenoko wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:32 pm Hey this op is full of spoilers
that was my first thought, too. Rinne being a Rider is one thing, since the crossover movie is quite clearly canon, and she got her powers there, so safe presumption a large enough chunk of the intended audience already knew
I'd thought Rinne was going to be a movie-exclusive rider, though I'm glad to be proven wrong. I'm curious how they'll be able to integrate the movie's events into the series in a way that counts the movie as canon without leaving behind anyone who didn't watch it.
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by Yaiba »

I love CHEMYxSTORY, I can't stop listening to it. It's catchy and upbeat and has a nice flow to it.

Everyone is fighting Dread in the OP footage. Bro is really working overtime with no replacement here.

I've read a theory that Minato's turn had been foreshadowed by the writers. He didn't have a surname and his name was purely katagana, just like the 3 Hades sisters. All the others had normal names with kanji. Come to think of it, he knew a lot about the Hades sisters before actually meeting them, and he seemed very fearful of Geryon. I'm very intrigue to see how his story will play out. I hope he can stick around till the end.

Remember in the beginning there was some complains about there's only one Rider. Well, we blinked and now there's five.
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by Gokider »

Mxylv wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 4:45 pm I'd thought Rinne was going to be a movie-exclusive rider, though I'm glad to be proven wrong. I'm curious how they'll be able to integrate the movie's events into the series in a way that counts the movie as canon without leaving behind anyone who didn't watch it.
She's evidently the Secondary Rider of the series with her and Houtarou having been dual main characters the whole time apparently.
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by HowlingSnail »

I assume Valvarad will take the "main" secondary role. It's basically what he's had so far, and even in Zero-One Valkyrie played second fiddle to both Vulcan and Thouser. Though I'd love to be proven wrong and have Rinne as the proper secondary Rider.

That term is fairly meaningless though. In Ex-Aid, Brave and Snipe really should share that role. In Blade there are debates to this day of who counts. In Kabuto, Gatack was one of the last Riders to debut. In Agito, is it G3 or Gills?

Like, even "6th Ranger" is a more fixed term than "Secondary Rider", and they're even inconsistent about that.
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by Gokider »

HowlingSnail wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:02 am I assume Valvarad will take the "main" secondary role. It's basically what he's had so far, and even in Zero-One Valkyrie played second fiddle to both Vulcan and Thouser. Though I'd love to be proven wrong and have Rinne as the proper secondary Rider.

That term is fairly meaningless though. In Ex-Aid, Brave and Snipe really should share that role. In Blade there are debates to this day of who counts. In Kabuto, Gatack was one of the last Riders to debut. In Agito, is it G3 or Gills?

Like, even "6th Ranger" is a more fixed term than "Secondary Rider", and they're even inconsistent about that.
Like pretty much anything else, it's based on what Toei says and they're going the idea that she's been sharing the lead role with Houtarou and is now the Secondary Rider.

Not sure how much meaning the term has aside from when listing them from various series, but the prominence any of them have in their respective stories is basically up to the writing, which can even change over time and put more focus elsewhere. How much a Tertiary Rider features in the story is also up in the air, hence the debates in some series (though again, which is which is what's said by Toei so it's Brave, Garren, and G3 - Gatack's later debut was the point in his case, but order isn't everything).

"6th Ranger" is more fixed since there often isn't anyone added after that and are clear cut "Extra Ranger/Heroes" when there is. Sometimes, there's more of course, but any Rider series with multiple Riders is less straightforward just by having more than the terms refer to.
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by HowlingSnail »

Toei also can't make their mind up, switching, for example, between Garren and Chalice. And "6th ranger" is absolutely not fixed. For example, take Gokaiger. Why are Geki Violet and Chopper considered core team, but Beet and Stag Buster are not? Why is Kuro Kishi not considered a 6th Ranger?

My point is that Toei's statements are both contradictory and nonsensical, like how Brave is treated as Ex-Aid's secondary in all the marketing, when in the actual show, he and Snipe share that role.

Toei also gives nonsense romanisations, insisting that total gibberish is a valid spelling of tons of things. You can't just say "Toei says it, so it's true" like that means anything whatsoever. Toei has proven that they are an unreliable source for their own products. Hell, they didn't even used to count Goranger and JAKQ as Super Sentai.
Gokider wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 9:07 am Like pretty much anything else
Like virtually nothing.
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Re: KR Gotchard 17 thread

Post by JustLive13 »

HowlingSnail wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:20 am Toei also can't make their mind up, switching, for example, between Garren and Chalice. And "6th ranger" is absolutely not fixed. For example, take Gokaiger. Why are Geki Violet and Chopper considered core team, but Beet and Stag Buster are not? Why is Kuro Kishi not considered a 6th Ranger?

My point is that Toei's statements are both contradictory and nonsensical, like how Brave is treated as Ex-Aid's secondary in all the marketing, when in the actual show, he and Snipe share that role.

Toei also gives nonsense romanisations, insisting that total gibberish is a valid spelling of tons of things. You can't just say "Toei says it, so it's true" like that means anything whatsoever. Toei has proven that they are an unreliable source for their own products. Hell, they didn't even used to count Goranger and JAKQ as Super Sentai.
Gokider wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 9:07 am Like pretty much anything else
Like virtually nothing.
I think the most if not all Secondary Rider debates clear up once you realize it’s basically code for whoever the main riders primary sidekick is. Garren very clearly fits that role better than Chalice. In Ex-Aid Hiro working at the same hospital as Emu gives him a distinct edge over Taiga. Because of their closeness vicinity they regulary show up to fights together and are the most common rider pairing in the show. The reason Gatack is considered the Secondary in Kabuto is because every other rider in that show is either is rival too or unassociated with Tendou for the most part. The only ones that felt kind of iffy to me from watching the show are Ibuki and Live/Evil both of which are cases where they are given the edge because they were either the second rider to appear or in Evil/Live case one half of them was the second to appear.
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Secondary Riders

Post by takenoko »

I always define "secondary Rider" as the deuteragonist, the one that has the most interesting relationship with the main character. The main Rider tends to be the good too shoes type, so the secondary is the more morally grey, conflicted type. That's why most secondary Riders are more popular (at least to me)

Agito/G3 - Their dynamic from the start is of overall they're allies, but sometimes the police are working at cross purposes with Agito

Ryuki/Knight - Knight is the obvious secondary main character

Blade/Chalice - Again, the story is mostly about these two people

Faiz/Kaixa - I mean, who else would be the secondary Rider, Delta?

Kabuto/Gatack

Den-O / Zeronos

Kiva / IXA

Decade / DiEnd

W / Accel

OOO / Birth - This one is a bit weird since the show is obviously about Eiji and Ankh. Birth is the secondary Rider by default

Fourze / Meteor

Wizard / Beast

Drive / Mach - Again, this feels weird since Mach just wasn't as important as Drive and his relationship with Kiriko. Mach is secondary Rider only because he's the default, but Mach and Chase were off on their own

Ghost - I didn't watch this

Ex-Aid / Brave

Build / Cross-Z

Zi-O / Geiz

Zero-One / Vulcan - Again, show was more about Zero-One and Is. Vulcan gets secondary Rider by default even though Valkyrie appeared at the same time, because they did Valkyrie dirty as a character

Saber / Blades - Although Espada is a pretty strong secondary Rider candidate

Revice / Live - By default I guess? When the show divides its focus among the family and literally everyone and their dad becomes a Rider, who you are as a Rider sort of becomes meaningless

Geats / Tycoon - Although there are some times when Buffa might be a close candidate
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