KR Gotchard 40 thread

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Poll ended at Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:46 pm

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KR Gotchard 40 thread

Post by takenoko »

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Ratings for last episode: 3.86 of 5 stars (7 votes)

These are the last bosses? they look like someone just stuck more crap on the normal motw body

How is Gigist still alive?

What is going on with this story?

Looks like the sisters have a new scene in the opening this week? They managed to squeeze Rainbow and Wind into the Gotchard sequence this week

Oh hello there Sakamoto Koichi. Back so soon?

lol, sabi, you're not supposed to question that out loud

Rinne, have you looked for your dad at all? Is Rinne crying? Why is she crying?

Klotho upgraded... her hair!

Wait, does he still have cards?

Oh no, the overpowered Wind is beaten.. in his second fight

Oh, the heroes got here too. This pacing is... a bit much

That's a cool looking monster

lol Minato and wind doing spells together

This is sort of a mess. All the bad guys want different things, but not in an interesting way like Game of Thrones where the drama comes from the shifting power. It's just random and chaotic

How long does it take to heal

Okay Rinne's dad, but why did you choose Houtarou again?

Oh, now Spanner wants soemthing. It feels like they wasted a bunch of episodes, and are only just now getting the story on track. It's pretty frustrating

Wasn't that cherry blossom tree earlier? Now it's a tree full of white flowers. Is that just becasue it's night time and the pink doesn't show up on camera as easily?

At lesat Rinne and Atropos are getting some story

And now we're getting a bit where Houtarou thinks his dinosaur got cooked like a chicken
Speaking of which, look at this dinosaur:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4-dOvNt ... _copy_link

We better get some good action at the end of this

Does Lakhesis want family? You know, normally you establish a character's wants so you understand their goals, motivations, and intentions. Like as a basic in story telling

No one's on civiliaion evacuation duty so the kids just disappeared on their own. I'm just going to imagine that Lakhesis was in this park for the last 3 episodes

That's a cool path that Houtarou is wandering around

Golem might be my favorite design yet. It just looks like a big strong dude

Surely a second Valvarad will beat Klotho Oh nice, he totally got beaten too lol

As someone who wants to enjoy a story, what a whiplash. It's like they realized "Oh shit, it's episode 40, time to hit unpause on all these storylines" but now there's too much shit going on. I want to enjoy what's going on, but everything feels so rushed that it's not really possible to get emotionally invested. What a mess! Does anyone even remember that they started the episode with the academy threatening to take away their Chemys? No?

Well, we're set up for next week. Looks like we're getting a sub plot about a kamen rider girl too??
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Re: KR Gotchard 40 thread

Post by Mxylv »

Have to admit, these new guys do feel like better (or at least more interesting) final antagonists than Gigist. It’s still mostly the sisters and their relationships that are carrying most of the intrigue, now with Rinne and Atropos’ unique relationship becoming far more central to the plot—at the end of the day, both just want their father back.

That said (and much of this is likely my limited JP vocab), this episode came with a number of questions. Why was Klotho fighting Rinne’s dad instead of guys that ate her own dad and kind of tortured her? Why did the riders jump straight into a fight without any evaluation of the scenario and what the big bads could do? Why did the academy want the chemys despite the clear dangers the riders are averting? Why did Houtaro think his mom cooked Nijigon? Atropos’ deal to stop hurting people was a good scene, but I can’t recall if they ever explained why she was hurting people in the first place. Definitely an above-average episode overall, in any case, and the status quo is more interesting than it's been for quite some time outside the egg cliffhanger
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Re: KR Gotchard 40 thread

Post by Yaiba »

Germain single handedly lifted the episode for me. My word he's terrifying, especially when he was asking for the Chemy cards in the abandoned building. Did they plan for that shot when they designed the suit

Too bad it seemed he won't be hanging around much longer, considering it's heavily hinted Geryon's still alive within him.

Minato held his own against a power-up Klotho Rebis when even the Riders were having trouble dealing with her original form. Sir, you're strong, stop standing on the sideline so much.

Klotho is coming off as the type who'd keep Lakhesis' corpse at home so she could be with "family".

Sakamoto Koichi is back and Houtarou got to pretend (with a stunt double) of knowing how to do action scenes again.


======================
Production Blog
https://www.kamen-rider-official.com/gotchard/41/
(They spent a lot explaining the background settings of the Hades Kings, to the point the blog writer himself wonder whether if these should be in the episodes themselves.)
======================

The three Hades Kings are roughly equal in terms of power. Well, their strength may vary depending on their personalities and training... So why was Gigist defeated so easily? Because he was "Hades King C". (During the design stage, he was called "Hades King C"). Yes, Germain and Gaelia are Hades King A and B.

The idea of ​​having three Hades Kings were planned from the beginning. We wanted a boss-level enemy after Geryon was taken out, but having the boss fighting hands-on so early would make him felt less majestic. But he needed to face the protagonists to move the story forward. So we went with the "Four Horsemen" format.

In other words, Gigist-sama was the scapegoat who'd kept the story moving. He would appear threating until Hopper1 Malgam, but was destined to lose no matter how he struggled. Thanks to voice actor Ryoutarou Okiayu for upholding his threating and majestic image.

The three Hades Kings are a Trinity, but they are also in competition with each other to obtain the True Throne. When Geryon's ritual created a gap large enough for one person in the Ouroboros ring, Gigist took the chance to come out and seek out Nijion, a fragment of the Philosopher's Stone, so to gain an advantage over the other two.

...If I were to explain this setting in more any detail,
I'm sure I'd be told "You should put that in the main story!" :(

The Egg Chemy was originally created to restore the Philosopher's Stone from a fragment. The stone is not at 100% right now, but had split and existed as fragments. It mean each Hades King had a fragment of the stone. The power of the stone was divided into three and given to the three kings. It's why they were a Trinity.

The distribution is 33%:33%:33%. And the remaining 1% is Nijigon. That's why Gigist descended to the world as soon as possible to absorb Nijigon. If he absorbed Nijigon and became 34, he would be able to overpower the other two Hades Kings.

The title "Triple Great" (三倍偉大な) is not a word we made up. It's the Japanese translation of "Trismegistus" from "Hermes Trismegistus," who was called the founder of alchemy in real history. It's a legitimate alchemy term(?). So in keeping with this motif, the Founder of Alchemy was named Germain.

Germain of Love, Gigist of Understanding, Gaelijah of Fate.
The characters of the three Hades Kings were almost all created by Inoue Akiko, and it's interesting that they were all related to the fundamental elements of humanity. This is true "Inoueism"!

-----------
Other stuff

We made Koltho call out "Ebon Clad!" when transforming on the hope to one day have her say that alongside Lachesis' "Iron Steel", so it was a dream came true.

Spanner, who thinks of Chemy as tools, was by no means acting cold towards them. It can actually be interpreted he was thinking about how to interact with them because they were tools. Is it really good for Chemy to be considered as equal as friends? Ever since he became a Kamen Rider, Spanner had acknowledged Houtarou's feelings, but also stuck to his own beliefs.
Spoiler
そもそも冥黒王三人は
単純な力量では同等ぐらいの想定なのです。
まぁ、性格や練度でその強さは変わるかもしれませんが……

ではなぜギギスト様はあんなにあっさり倒されたのか?

なんてことはない
そもそも彼は最初から、「冥黒王C」だったから。
(デザイン段階では本当に「冥黒王C」と呼んでいました)
では「A」と「B」は誰か。
そう、それこそがジェルマンとガエリヤ、2人の冥黒王。

冥黒王が3人いるという展開は
しっかりグリオンさんを退場させたときから考えていたことでして
「そろそろ敵のボス格に出てきて欲しい」
「でもなんか前線に出てウロチョロされると威厳が下がる」
「しかし話を動かすために誰かは前線に出ざるを得ない」
この矛盾をどう解決したものか……と考えた結果
「奴は四天王の中でも~~」フォーマットが採用されたのでした。

つまりギギスト様は、話を動かす切り込み隊長。
ですので、どうあがいても少し下がって見えてしまうことは確定していたギギスト様。
彼を置鮎さんに
威厳たっぷりの声で助けていただけたのは本当に僥倖でした。
すくなくともホッパー1マルガム(最終フォーム)までは
たとえ「C」であっても、極悪非道に見えてほしかったので
その強度を置鮎さんパワーで引き上げていただき
置鮎さん、改めまして本当にありがとうございました……!

冥黒王3人は
「三位一体」という同質関係でありながら
誰が「真の玉座を手に入れるか」という
奪い合い競い合いの緊張関係にもあります。
27話のグリオンの儀式によってウロボロスの輪に少しのひずみが生まれ
そこから一人分の隙間が発生。
目ざといギギスト様はその機を逃さず
先んじて現世に降り立ち、自分が他2人より優位に立てるよう
ニジゴン=賢者の石の欠片 を求めていたということでした。

……こういう設定の補足説明をすると
「本編で描けよそういうことは!」と言われてしまいそうですが😢

「卵のケミーは、もともと欠片から賢者の石を復元するために作られたらしい」
それはいま100%の状態ではなく分裂して「欠片」として存在しているようです。
「石の欠片」は、卵だけではなく冥黒王たちそれぞれも持っているということになります。
100%だったはずの「石の力」が三分割され三人の王たちに分け与えられた。
だから同質「三位一体」なのですね。
配分は、33:33:33。
そして、残りの「1」こそ「卵のケミー」ニジゴン。
だからギギスト様はいち早く現世に降り立って「石の欠片」であるニジゴンを取り込もうとしていたのです。
ニジゴンを取り込み「34」となればほか2人の冥黒王にイニシアチブが取れるから!

そしてサブタイトルの「三倍偉大な」という文言は我々の造語ではなく
現実の歴史で錬金術の始祖と呼ばれている
「ヘルメス・トリスメギストス」の「トリスメギストス」の日本語訳。
れっきとした錬金術用語(?)なのであります。
ということで、そんなモチーフにも則った「錬金術の始祖」改めましてその名はジェルマン!

愛情のジェルマン
理解(知性)のギギスト
そして、運命のガエリヤ。
冥黒王3人のキャラクターはタイミング的にほぼすべて井上亜樹子さんに作っていただいたのですが
それが「愛/理/運」と
いずれも人間の根源要素と関連しているのは興味深いですね。
これが井上イズム、恐れ入りました。

----------

いつかラケシスの「鉄鋼」と並べて言わせたいという野望から
レビスの「黒装」という変身コードをわざわざ作っていたので
念願の「鉄鋼」vs「黒装」が叶った瞬間でもありましたね。

「ケミーは道具」と考えているスパナは決してケミーに冷たいわけではなく
「道具」であるからこその付き合い方を考えているとも言えます。
「友達」として同列に考えることが
果たして本当にケミーにとって良いことなのか?
仮面ライダーの字を手に入れてから
宝太郎のことは認めつつも、自分の考えは貫いてきたスパナ。
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Re: KR Gotchard 40 thread

Post by takenoko »

>The distribution is 33:33:33. And the remaining 1 is Nijigon. That's why Gigist descended to the world as soon as possible to absorb Nijigon. If he absorbed Nijigon and became 34, he would be able to overpower the other two Hades Kings.

Oh, well that's just math

>The title "Triple Great" (三倍偉大な) is not a word we made up. It's the Japanese translation of "Trismegistus" from "Hermes Trismegistus," who was called the founder of alchemy in real history. It's a legitimate alchemy term(?). So in keeping with this motif, the Founder of Alchemy was named Germain.

Oh, so that's why the title is like that. I guess Germain was a real guy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_of_St._Germain

>Germain of Love, Gigist of Understanding, Gaelijah of Fate.

Fate, not prophecy? Feels like Gaelijah would be based on this woman who was a known prophet:
https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/maria-jewess
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Re: KR Gotchard 40 thread

Post by Yaiba »

It's 運命. Can it be translated as prophecy?
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Re: KR Gotchard 40 thread

Post by ViRGE »

Hmm. I'm really not sure what to make of this episode.

On the one hand, I'm glad the plot is continuing to move forward To reiterate what I said last week, this is a nice change from most of the 30s, where besides spending a whole damn month spinning its wheels with that damn Legend arc, was largely in a holding position. But to also reiterate what I said last week, having the plot randomly accelerating to 100mph brings its own problems. There has to be a happy medium; this episode in particular had two too many plot threads going on at once, which just results in everything getting smothered.

The fact that there are two additional Hades Kings bugs me a lot. Especially when the episode recap tries to hang a lampshade on this with "But who said... that there's only one Hades King?". It's right there in the name! A king is a monarch (as all the kids learned last year with King-Ohger) - emphasis on mono. If you're the king of Hades, then there can't also be two other kings.

When done right, KR walks a fine line between surprising the audience with unexpected twists and turns while still foreshadowing what might come next. As a series, Gotchard is really failing at the latter. It's not nearly as bad as Donbrothers-style Inoue chaos writing, but most of this stuff has in no way been foreshadowed; it just happens.

And speaking of popular creators, to my own surprise here, I didn't immediately pick up on the fact that Sakamoto was directing this episode. Part of that is because I just wasn't expecting it so soon (aka Takenoko noted "Back so soon?"), but the episode didn't also immediately stand out with any grandiose stunts. Though in retrospect, I should have realized that something was up when Klotho and Lakhesis' actresses were stunt fighting. (Come to think of it, I believe this is the first time we've seen the latter actress doing any stunt work? So congrats to her?) I'm assuming the big payoff of roping in Sakamoto will be the next episode, as the 40s mean that killing off the generals is fair game. (And you can be sure it'll be a very important episode, because all the heroes get their asses kicked in this one, even the recurring ones!)

Speaking of which, Gigist created the chemys. Germain created alchemy. So what did the third general create? Gotchard is hammering the ideas of trinities pretty hard (the riders, the Sisters, the Hades King). But thematically, its two big elements are alchemy and Pokémon. So what is there for the third general to do?

As opposed to our suited villains, the Sisters continue to have the most interesting story. But the start-stop nature of the plot is leaving it all a tad underbaked. 3 characters with 3 distinct plots, none of which has been developed quite enough to flesh out the strife between them, or why Atropos and Klotho are even hanging out with the Hades Kings. It's clear they were only loyal to Geryon, and he's gone.

And Geryon was a homunculus like the Sisters? I'm really not sure I like that revelation. Though it does give the new villains more of a connection (and more of a reason for Atropos to take up harassing someone besides Rinne for once), it also seems like a takes away a lot of Geryon's agency. And by extension, Minato's.

Despite all of that complaining, I am enjoying watching the series. But it's been solidly in "3" territory for a while now, and issues such as the above are what keep it there.

PS Just so it's noted, the links at the top of the post go to episode 38, and the wiki page for episode 39 respectively
takenoko wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 6:46 pm These are the last bosses? they look like someone just stuck more crap on the normal motw body
I really want to refute this point, but I can't. The designs for the generals in this series have been rather disappointing. They're lacking in colors, for a start; it's too much black.
Rinne, have you looked for your dad at all?
And he's right where everyone left him in the very first episode?
Klotho upgraded... her hair!
I can only surmise they needed something to better hide when they were using stunties. Which makes me wonder if they have a dude doing it at points, since the ponytail is not normally an issue for the lady stunties.
Okay Rinne's dad, but why did you choose Houtarou again?
IIRC, technically Steamliner and Hopper1 chose him. But that remains a very good question.
At lesat Rinne and Atropos are getting some story
Given that Atropos spent the last 9 months making Rinne's life hell, I don't understand why she's going to these meetings. Or why she isn't taking a baseball bat with her for when the little shit tries something again. :lol:
Yaiba wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:54 am Germain single handedly lifted the episode for me. My word he's terrifying, especially when he was asking for the Chemy cards in the abandoned building.
Germain definitely got a better introduction than Gigist. Gigist was dangerous because he's powerful. But Germain is dangerous because he's crazy. It's a shame he's not a face villain, because this is exactly the situation where a actor doing crazy eyes would be appropriate. :shock:
Klotho is coming off as the type who'd keep Lakhesis' corpse at home so she could be with "family".
She's definitely become fully unhinged. What is this, the third or fourth time that a Hades King has whammied her?
(They spent a lot explaining the background settings of the Hades Kings, to the point the blog writer himself wonder whether if these should be in the episodes themselves.)
That says it all right there. Basically all of this should have been in the show; it's critical background information. And I don't mean waiting until episode 40 to reveal it all!
Last edited by ViRGE on Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KR Gotchard 40 thread

Post by takenoko »

>because I just wasn't expecting it so soon (aka Takenoko noted "Back so soon?"), but the episode didn't also immediately stand out with any grandiose stunts.

I know, it's so disappointing. I'm guessing that most of that is being saved for the latter episode

>Speaking of which, Gigist created the chemys. Germain created alchemy. So what did the third general create? Gotchard is hammering the ideas of trinities pretty hard (the riders, the Sisters, the Hades King). But thematically, its two big elements are alchemy and Pokémon. So what is there for the third general to do?

hopefully something good. otherwise it's just "oh, we have this triangle motif going on. let's do three main bads"

>And Geryon was a homunculus like the Sisters? I'm really not sure I like that revelation.

I mean, that's what I always figured. But it's a little dissatisfying that the alchemy alliance can't smell a plant and even got totally brainwashed by him
Rinne, have you looked for your dad at all?
And he's right where everyone left him in the very first episode?

lol. but I guess he was behind a wall, guarded by a simulacra?? So they should have at least found a fake
Okay Rinne's dad, but why did you choose Houtarou again?
IIRC, technically Steamliner and Hopper1 chose him. But that remains a very good question.

I mean, is it a chosen one thing? But usually our special boy has some reason to be the boy of destiny. Like Luke being Vader's son. I just feel like they're setting up some dumb reveal for the end of the series, involving him knowing the Chemys 10 years ago, his memory getting erased, and the dad plot they've left dangling over us this whole series, and it's just not going to be satisfying since it's underdeveloped and a boring mystery that they should have answered long ago?
At lesat Rinne and Atropos are getting some story
Given that Atropos spent the last 9 months making Rinne's life hell, I don't understand why she's going to these meetings. Or why she isn't taking a baseball bat with her for when the little shit tries something again. :lol:

lol, they're frenemies
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Re: KR Gotchard 40 thread

Post by resop2 »

I actually liked that they had a lot of frantic action this episode.

They at least establish that the three kings of Hades are nothing to mess with.

Lakhesis should tell Klotho that if they fight to the death then they wouldn't be together as a family so it would be pointless. Instead they should do a karaoke challenge or a modeling competition. The pay off would be Klotho's actress breaking out the "What the heck are you talking about" look that she gave Houtarou when Houtarou tried to talk Klotho into turning into a good guy.

If Geryon comes back, will he be a good guy or a bad guy?

I wonder of Kajiki has a piece of the Philosopher's stone inside of him as well which is why weird things are always attracted to him?

Since this show rips off any anime they can, maybe Rinne, Spanner, Hajiki, Houtarou, Renge, and Sabimaru all saw chemy's when they where kids and are now the "chosen children" who are able to make the digimon chemy's evolve?
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Re: KR Gotchard 40 thread

Post by FastestDan »

Yaiba wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:54 am The distribution is 33:33:33. And the remaining 1 is Nijigon.
Wait, that doesn't add up. 33+33+33 is 99, plus Nijigon, getting 100. But...isn't that's wrong? Where is 101st Chemy, then?
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Re: KR Gotchard 40 thread

Post by Yaiba »

FastestDan wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 6:48 am
Yaiba wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:54 am The distribution is 33:33:33. And the remaining 1 is Nijigon.
Wait, that doesn't add up. 33+33+33 is 99, plus Nijigon, getting 100. But...isn't that's wrong? Where is 101st Chemy, then?
It's a percentage, not the number of Chemys.

100% of the philosopher stone's power is divided by 3 Hades Kings, so each get 33% of the power. The remaining 1% is with Nijigon.
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