W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by KR_cRAYzy »

Yeah my first post on this account! Had an older account but I forgot the password...

Anyways, I wasn't too glued with W as a series but the finale was still enjoyed. I hold Kabuto, 555 and Agito as my top three and compared to them W doesn't register too high for me. Maybe because Akiko really annoyed me throughout the series... Her constant "atashi kitenai!" got on my nerves, everything else had enough to keep me watching. I feel what didn't put W in the league of my top three is the fact that my favourite characters got killed off. Kirihiko was sauve and cunning but bit the dust just as he started turning around. Isaka was just intimidating and proved to be a true threat. Terui didn't die but he got glompped by Akiko, but who wouldn't want to glomp him? All in all W was nice to watch.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by Kamen Rider Raven »

DrinkItDown wrote:
Kamen Rider Raven wrote:With everyone talking about how W is the best series since Blade, I really need to watch Blade. If it's anything like W, I'm going to like it.
The thing you have to remember about Blade is that it will take like 10 or 15 episodes to find it's groove, it starts out kind of slow. Stick it out. After that, its fantastic.
That won't bother me really. I remember Kabuto starting out pretty slow as well. Things didn't really hit it's stride until all the riders were introduced IMO.

As long as it helps establish the characters, I don't see a problem.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by Anime_freek22 »

Yeah! Akiko bashing!
I feel that the death of the characters allowed for the characters to reach deeper into that vast, swirling sea we call "emotion" and "plot development". Like in the Yesterday arc, Shotaro showed more maturity (aside from the nya thing) when addressing Kirihiko's sister and his death. Isaka's death allowed Terui to grow out of a self-imposed shell of revenge and develop a new armor based in protection and it revealed the perceived threat that Shroud was.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by Catastrophe »

Oh, and I forgot to mention. There was use of the Bikes this time around.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by DrinkItDown »

Oh yeah! Machine Hardboilder got the crap used out of it. Revolgarry's Liger-zero wheel thing though, not that much.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by garfield15 »

You guys gotta watch more Kuuga

But W is my number 2. Sorry Blade, you're at three for me. I still love you.

I thought the acting in W was probably some of the best I've seen of Heisei Rider.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by LonelySoldier »

W has ended. So many memorable things was left behind... The laughs, the cries, the yells, the slipper-whackings, everything...

What I appreciate most from this series is that there seems like no such thing as filler arcs, since they could blend the main plot building along with the usual 'problems-for-this-week' really well... Hmmmm, is it because W is a kamen rider story revolving around detective works?

How the ending presented may be on par with blade, but I very much agree with Chariot's statement, W is better than Blade as a series, since this series rarely had any slowdowns compared to Blade which was kinda slow in the beginning...

I would give any thumbs available up for Toei for their hard-work and revolutionary ideas made for this series. Poor O's, there must be so many people putting sky-high hopes for him, just like what's happening with Goseiger... Hang in there, O's :wink:
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by DizzySadako »

hello everyone. i enjoyed Kamen Rider W so much that i just HAD to create an account so i can express my love for this series! i've finished Kabuto, Decade, and W. i find it so amazing how Kabuto had an extra episode compared to W, yet W felt so much longer! remembering how it first began, to how greasy it got later on, and how it ended...so much went on. wow, i'm seriously going to miss this series. As for decade, i personally liked it...and i think Decade and W make the coolest rider-team/crossover ever. But that's just me XD
Kamen Rider Raven wrote:With everyone talking about how W is the best series since Blade, I really need to watch Blade. If it's anything like W, I'm going to like it.
yeah, i too need to watch Blade, it seems promising...

I dunno, this sounds weird or whatever I know, but, I feel like this season was made for me. Anyone else feel that way? No? Oh ok, that's cool XD XD XD

i had just a bit more to say, but i can't remember so...i'll just post more later or something, this post has become too long for a newcomer anyway XD

so finally, a BIG THANK YOU, THE BIGGEST OF ALL TIME, TO TV-NIHON FOR BRINGING US THIS GREAT SERIES!!! honestly, you guys deserve a lot for what you bring us....ok well, i look forward to interacting with everyone here ^_^
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by KR_cRAYzy »

I agree Kirihiko's and Isaka's death's were necessary for story and plot advancement, but it still made me sad to see my favourites bite the bullet. Isaka's death for the most part was a given, anyone who stokes the fuels to Terui's rage is going to get burned, I was glad their final battle was epic.

For me what makes a Kamen Rider Series good are four things; Epic fights, enthralling story developments, lovable characters and strong female leads.

W had the fights here and there that would get me on the edge of my seat, but once it turned into a Kaijuu vs mech battle I sort of lost interest. I don't know, I love the Sentai mech fights, but Kamen Rider was fine without them. The only fights throughout W that were epic for me were Kirihiko and Isaka fights, though W Xtreme vs Tyrant was pretty good and Skull making appearances here and there was great. I don't know, maybe because W had too many forms and I got desensitized in all the special effects. I'm just happy seeing my Kamen Riders bash their foes in melee combat.

The Philip is Sonozaki Raito twist wasn't too surprising, but it was well developed. Even though I knew it before the revelation I was still intrigued as each episode came out. Then Philip's 'death' came about and that hooked me in completely, but it was already so late in the series I felt obligated to finish it no matter what. :P I thought more would be played out on Akiko finding out about her dad's death but it wasn't a major story arch which disappointed me.

For me, I liked the characters and their quirks, but didn't love them. Everyone, except Akiko, was good but not great. If anyone came close to being lovable for me it would be Shoutarou. His constant bumbling mixed with this persona to be 'hard-boiled' was cheesy, but admirable, almost lovable.

Lastly, the strong female lead. Akiko was pretty close, though I dislike her. My jaw dropped when she smacked Wakana when she was in Claydoll Form. But moments like that were few and far between. She would say something in passing and inspire Philip to find the answer, but it seemed more like a fluke or coincidence than her actual wisdom. She just took the role of goofy side kick most of the time, while her predecessors took center stage or stole the spotlight more times than she could said "Atashi kitenai~!"

So for those who see W as 'The Best of the Heisei' I'm not on the same page. Though I admit it was still really good.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by Ivanhobe »

Generally i liked W, but i have mixed feeling for the series itself.

Watching the first episodes i thought "this is a lighthearted series", so i didn´t expected to much, but as the series progresed, i started thinking "wow, that is awesome", there were many moments like that were every trace of logic in my mind told me "that is really cool", but somehow the series didn´t clicked for me in the right way, as weeks passed i didn´t get all that excited for every episode, i watched them more because of the habit than for true excitment.

So i actually didn´t liked the series that much, i found it fun to watch but it wasn´t as cautivating as other rider series were for me, it is not my favorite series, and i think it was mostly because of the story, it wasn´t nearly as complex as other´s seasons, i mean, just watching episodes 3 and 4 you could guess the identities of philip and eventually shroud, but it was a solid story, almost free of plotholes (i am looking at you wakana-hime).

That said, there are many aspects that i really liked about the series, for one, kirihiko, at first he seemed like a character that only existed for the purpose of giving us, the audience, an introduction for the main villans, the sonozaky, but during his last apisodes we got to know him better, and the villan that seemed to be a rival for the main character, became somewhat of an equal to him, his death was one of the best parts of the series, though a sad one.

Second, kamen rider accel, i must admit that i am not a fan of his design, and at first he seemed like an X character, but by the end of the series, after the defeat of isaka, he became one of the best developed characters of the series, i really liked how he went from being a "demon of vengeance" to a being of forgiveness, watching his first episodes one would have never guessed that he would be capable of forgiveness, particularly towards shroud, in other series he would have ended in an epic battle betwen those two, i could easily imagined shroud as a main villan or something, but then terui showed compassion and shroud revealed her humanity, it was something i did not see coming, and i liked a lot. And by the way, even if i dont like accel design, i really loved trial´s.

And last but not least, the one thing i really enjoyed about the series was the main character itself, hidari shoutaro. I have said it before, but he had the best development of all characters, and somehow, he had the least screen time to be developed, the series has a clear focus on philip, and the series had many characters that were more or less well developed, so for the most of the series shoutarou seemed to be nothing but a witness to all this characters, but there were a few episodes here and there where the show focused on him, and he really shined, begins night was one of his finest moments, and the last episodes really show how much he had grown, he is my favorite character from the series, and one of my favorite main riders.

So i liked how they treated the characters in the series, but the story itself didn´t cut it for me, maybe is because i am used to really complex stories, i admit the argument is solid, but simple nonetheles, and that´s what keeps it from being one of my favorite series, and i might win some enemies for this, but i still think blade had a more beautiful ending, w´s ending was fiting for the series and great overall, but blade´s was both emotional and had a great built through out the series. Maybe if i rewatch W my opinion will change, but as of now this is what i think.

PD:I realize now i over did it a bit with the writing.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by Uncontrol »

I really enjoyed W -- in particular, the friendship between Terui, Akiko (most underrated character by fans IMO), Shoutarou and Philip was really enjoyable for me. I don't think any Kamen Rider series can touch the relationships these characters shared. However, I have some serious problems with the way the series ended.

It was obvious that Foundation X was going to end up being the primary villian when Ryubee died three episodes before the finale. Jun was a decent villian. Utopia was a kickass design with awesome powers. However, there was never really any attention given to Foundation X's motives for continuing on where Ryubee left off (other than Jun's "love" for Saeko, which didn't make any sense either). I don't understand why they wanted to continue with the Gaia Impact -- did I miss something here? And the part where the woman says "we formally withdraw from the Gaia Memory business" was really weird and lame.

Also, Utopia was the strongest enemy in the series, for sure. Stronger than Isaka. So why was Shoutarou able to subdue him with a hat and some tiny gadgets when both Accel and XTreme were unable to deal any meaningful damage? I understand the symbolism behind his actions but it did not seem like the writers fully fleshed this out.

I was willing to forgive most of this though. I was happy there would be an epilogue episode, because I always feel like the writers pay little attention to what happens after the big baddie dies. However, after watching the epilogue, I wish it hadn't occurred. Bringing Phillip back was a cop-out (though many here obviously disagree). I love Phillip, and while I was happy to see him back, I also feel like it completely removed all the meaning from his sacrifice. Shoutarou obviously missed Phillip, but he was moving on with his life without forgetting his dear friend. They could've sent a great message about true love for a friend and being strong on your own. I know they are "half and half", but Phillip would have always been within Shoutarou.

Also, I still don't entirely understand Wakana's motives. Even if she did want to go ahead with the Gaia Impact for her father's sake, why did she suddenly turn evil? Why suddenly so hostile and cruel towards Phillip? Towards everyone? They should've just made her possessed or something. While cliche, it would have at least made some sense.

Also, the Sonozaki afterlife reunion was the worst thing I've ever seen.

I still love W, but the ending really dampened the series for me in a serious, disappointing way.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by kikaida »

@Uncontrol - I have an answer to all of your objections: "they needed to end the series."

It seems to me they did that by:
1. Killing off the Sonozaki family
2. Keeping W for future episodes "whole" by bringing Philip back

It's too bad, really, I personally think that episode 47 should have been the end of W. I always viewed Ryubee as "thee enemy." But that he was "softened" and turned around so that we could see a kind of twisted love for his family. That's one messed up family, that - what? can only be redeemed by death?

Sure W wrapped up a lot of lose ends . . . but it almost started to drag before it ended.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by Uncontrol »

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention: the "evil tail" was ridiculous.
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by DizzySadako »

yeah, i agree that when they brought back philip i was a slightly disappointed, but their explanation could have been way worse, so i'm glad they explained it the way they did. i mean, i guess i can forgive all the season's flaws because to me, the character development, the connections within the series, and the other themes of the show outshine all that. plus, it's only the third season i've actually finished sooooo....XD

but yeah, i understand why you guys think the evil tail was dumb, wakana's turning evil was ???, and how it could've ended with episode 48. but, thinking about all the rest of the series, some of those details become unimportant, or can be explained, but are open to interpretation. i imagine a lot of people probably wouldn't like to have to do that XD but you guys seem to have some really good explanations for things, as we've already seen
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Re: W Series Discussion (no Forever movie talk)

Post by William_Duel »

Man there's so much I could say about this series. At first, it was hard after the emotional flux that was Decade. But W's tight writing kept it going strong. The way I see it, W is the result of the trial and error of the previous series.

I have a theory. Let's look back at Kiva. Kiva had a lot of similar stuff going on, form changes, vehicle changes, supporting cast, dramatic storytelling, etc. And while it was entertaining, it came off as weak at times. W totally tightened up all of those aspects. Every gimmick in W, had more than a one time use. Even AccelGunner had several appearances and even faced off against a big baddie towards the end. And while W's forms were only supposed to have three finishers, eventually all forms had finishers. Some people didn't like Accel's design but I liked it just fine. Though I wonder if Trial had a bike mode...

Anyways trying not to tangent, but I think W was supposed to come after Kiva. If you look at the Decade speculation thread, the silhouette of the next rider matches W much more than it does Decade. So I theorize that someone went "Wait wait, before we go to the next rider, why not have a fangasm series and celebrate ten years of Heisei riders?" So I think this is what lead to the rushed writing of Decade, vs the polished writing of W which had a longer time to polish up. That's my theory.

I don't wanna repeat what everyone said or beat a dead horse, but W was a great kamen rider series and is especially memorable. I hope the next series keeps going strong.

One complaint I do have though is that I thought Ryubee's motivation for the Gaia Impact was particularly weak. I'm still kinda unclear what his goal was. Foundation X's modified goal, to wipe out people who weren't Gaia Memory compatible, seemed more sound.
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